*sigh* Horse kicking out at rider when ridden...

Sol

Sol

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One day, I will never, ever complain about a horse again... ok?
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I probably seem like a right idiot, but tbh I don't care! I just want some ideas...

Has anyone else ever had a problem with their horse attempting to kick out at the rider, WHILST being ridden??
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I probably sound crazy, but the other day while looking straight ahead, I saw the white on the back of Danny's back right foot!
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He only tends to do this with his right leg, whenever I put my right leg on him either to ask him forward/more bend etc. The more pressure I put on, the worse he is! Other times though, he's fine.
He doesn't do this when jumping.

He also didn't do it tonight after being lunged, ridden for 5-10mins inside and about 20mins outside...
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He was a little tired by then though.

Just don't see why he does it! We're pretty sure it's just because he hates being asked to do anything he thinks is 'difficult' which is pretty much everything. And although it isn't scary, it's bloody annoying!

Help?!

*gives cookies, chocolate fudge cake and other goodies*
 
He is telling you he finds what you are asking difficult. The more you ask the more he will do it, in a corresponding response. He is less likely to do it after lungeing because he will be warmed up, hence slightly more supple. he probably doesnt do it when jumping because he may enjoy that more plus the adrenaline masking discomfort.

You just have to increase his suppleness gradually so he doesnt feel the need to communiate he finds it hard. And warm up/cool down well
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Sorry not much help, but mine kicks out sometimes when I use the whip on him. He doesn't do it that often but seems he does it out of annoyance maybe.
 
Apparently he finds it difficult to walk on a certainly not tight rein though!
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I agree that some things he finds difficult - the odd buck during a walk-canter transition, fine. Or when asking for medium trot when he gets a little puzzled...
But he does it even just walking on a 20m circle! I have to be able to ride him to warm him up (can't afford £20 per day to use the indoor, we can't lunge in the outdoors) and if I was to try and warm him up without using my legs at all... lets say it would be amusing
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Sorry if I sounded a bit sharp, just confused and frustrated!
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Two of my horses have done this with other riders. In both cases the riders had cringe worthy lower leg control and were nagging with their legs constantly. Both horses cow kicked outwards in irritation. I took over in both instances and rode the horses with not a cow kick in sight. These horses have been ridden by many people and had never done it before and never did it again because I did not let the two other riders mount them again.
 
What do you do when he does it? If you remove your leg he has got his reward. If you arent asking too much make sure you are keeping the leg on when he kicks but remove it immediately he responds with even the tiniest forward movement. If you keep your leg on after he has responded with forwardness (however slight) then the aid ceases to mean anything to him and that might be why he complains. e.g if i ask you to put a smiley face after your posts and you do it but then i keep asking, you would thnk i was nuts at first then you would soon get p1ssed off!

If you are being demanding when he kicks out then you have to be a bit more lenient.

Not sure if ive explained that very well?
 
Any chance of getting a video?

My horse does this in frustration when I am asking him to go forward, but hanging on to him at the same time. Not saying that this is what you are doing but my horse does it for a valid reason, lol! I always go "ooooh sorry!!" and let him go. It's his feedback to me that I am being a t|t and asking the impossible
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It's his "let me do it!!" response!
 
Does it with my instructor as well, so don't think it's that really... haven't had anyone else ride him recently other than her though so couldn't say he'd do it with everyone, though I would probably put money on it...
And I don't think my legs are -that- bad... at least, nobody has ever said so! So it's hopefully not that
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I usually keep my leg on him and I guess probably take it off a little when he moves on? But knowing me I probably keep asking a little too much... maybe I should think a little more about making the 'reward' more definte...

Don't worry, I understand what you mean.

I think it'll always be a bit of a chore doing flatwork with him so will always have to be a little lenient with harder stuff anyway! But he has to learn he can't JUST jump!

Thanks
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I can try... but might be weekend before I could get one! (jumping lesson tomorrow, not likely to do it! also jumping thurs, day off fri!)

That makes sense... don't think it's the same reason, but similar theory maybe? Though I think Danny's thinking may be 'let me do it...MY way!'
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My lad did this when younger, about 4/5yrs he wasn't very forward going at the time he seemed to be objecting to a stronger aid, he stopped by himself, as he matured and became more responsive to aids, I would just growl at him when he did it, seemed to stop him at the time. Also hacking out more helped he only did when schooling.
 
hmm... this also makes sense I guess, Dan's only about 5 1/2. I do plan on hacking more, when this bloody weather improves!
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I hate hacking as it is, without the pouring rain and wind and snow!
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Thanks (:
 
I so hear your frustration. My mare did this among other things when i got her as a green 4yr old,she hadn't done any sort of schooling but had amazing potential but she had a big attitude to the point of being dangerous. She didn't do it when we jumped though as she lives to jump,she did it when you asked her to do something that would involve her using herself properly or something that required concentration! She had the most amazing tantrums and at the start she spent a good few months of whenever you put one leg on she would kick out at that side,if you put the other leg on she would then kick out at that side,if you put both legs on she would have a complete fit,and it was just for no reason she was v much an alpha mare that didnt like to be told what to do! She would also do it at the slightest touch of the whip,it took me a lot of tears and heartache but now after lots of join up and bonding type methods she is like a dog to have around,because i didnt give up i think she respects me now and adores me,she still now and again will kick out randomly if tapped behind the girth when schooling,esp if what she is being asked to do is something new and hard work but apart from that she is v nearly cured but she is now 6 so it has taken a while. She would sometimes plant herself and not move she would then kick out when asked to move forward, when she did that i used to turn her away and ignore her every time she kicked out so that when she did turn i would start a fresh and ask her to move on again,after a while she got bored and realised she wasnt getting anywhere and gave up,not without a fight though! It is a very annoying habit but i eventually got there.
 
Sounds familiar! Maybe I'm just going to have to test my patience then. He /is/ still very immature, wouldn't be surprised if it took him until he was 7 or even 8 to really mature tbh.
I think it I probably have less of a bond with him which does annoy me, as my mum has to do a lot (turning out, bringing in, some general yard stuff) while I'm in school so I only get to groom & ride really
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Not much I can do about that right now though...

Thanks (:
 
Someone on another forum had this problem with her horse and she had vet out who scoped him and found he had gastric ulcers. The kicking out stopped once the ulcers were successfullly treated and started again when they returned.

So I'd suggest it would be well worth getting him checked out to see if it is a pain response.
 
This is our (rising) 4 year old's only method of evasion he has found so far! He is a little bit handy with his back legs anyway, only in the sense that when you pick them out he tends to wave them around a bit, and he has been known when in a complete and utter strop (with the vet!) he will kick out. So it semed a natural progression that once we started ridden work if he didn't understand what was being asked or if he needed a bit of extra encouragement and got a stronger leg aid he would literally kick out at your leg on his side! He also turned round and tried to bite my OH's leg once! (He's lovely really honestly!)
Since we turned him away for two months and brought him back 2 weeks ago he hasn't done it tbh, but am having first lesson on Sunday so will see if its repeated!
 
A girl on my yard has a very hot little mare that used to do this - always on the left rein, and always in canter.

I watched a brilliant dressage lesson she was having some years ago where this very issue was the topic. The trainer told her to take the leg off the mare, and actually had her sticking it forward, so that the mare had nothing to argue with. It wasn't a case of rewarding bad behaviour - just removing the cause of the problem. There were a few hairy moments where the horse continued kicking forward whilst the leg had been removed. But the problem was solved, and after just few more episodes the mare never did it again. Removing spurs helped as well.
 
Is this the same horse you have been having saddle problems with?

As I remember you saying that his DR saddle had a broken gullet, if it is, it could be a pain reaction and I'd think about having a physio out to give him a bit of a massage as any kind of mis fitting saddle really can cause soreness.

Hope you get it sorted soon!
 
Same horse, yes.

Just don't know if we can afford it right now, bad enough paying to have the saddle fixed
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Parents keep complaining about money, no way I can earn anything aside from taking commissions which I can't because of school, and art just takes too long.

Might give him a week or two off, see if that does any good. Though then he'll probably do something to himself being a prat in the field! *sigh* And in the field, you'd never think that there was anything wrong with him, he has all the airs above the ground down to a fine art
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Thanks
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I really think you need to rule out pain first too. Are you sure the saddle now fits him? And that he hasn't got any residual pain from it not fitting?
 
Physio/ Chiro would be £30 - £50 and would probably sort him out.

I would say as he is reacting this way then getting someone out to him would be the first step, as you have one saddle that fits to ride in there is not a huge problem waiting for the other to get fixed.
 
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