Signs of trust between you and your horse.

cblover

cblover

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My Clyde Scrappy had a terrible start in life....starved, lice, leg roped up to trim her little hooves, twitched till her nose bleed, weaned at 3 months. I bought her (pity buy I suppose) when she was 8 months and this June she’ll be 4 years old.

It’s been a roller coaster so far but on the whole I can do most day to day things with her. She wouldn’t thank you for a cuddle but she does flutter her nose at me when my car pulls up at the gate. I love that! She’s what I would call quirky, I can pick her feet out but if I try to apply cream, water or anything strong smelling she’s not happy. Plus she’s not keen on fly spray and if I get her leg straps too tight on her rug, she’s sharp to tell me! Lol

I’ve managed (sometimes) to brush near her teats and touch them but I certainly can’t do it all the time. I have to judge when’s best to do it.

Would any of this make you worry you, especially because we’ve had her nearly 3 years? I think I’ve been spoiled with my last cob of 11 years as I could literally do anything with her, touch her anywhere and cuddle her all the time. I get that they are all different but it does concern me I can’t do all I want/need to with her. I could be over thinking this....I do that! Lol

Would it affect your relationship with your horse? I don’t feel as close to her as I’d like because of her demons I suppose but totally understand it’s not her fault and I’m permanently peed off with the people who did this to her. Glossy website, judges, well known...you know the type!

Please tell me I’m mad, sad....plain daft! Lol
 
First off I think you should stop attributing everything to her rough start. That was a short duration, long time ago and not anything that should affect her basic manners. I have had numerous rescue horses over the years and while some will never be quite as confident as a horse with a more normal upbringing, they all have ended up as well mannered useful members of society. If a horse has a particular problem (lifting feet for example) then that needs to be worked on specifically. The more you approach a horse as just like any other, the more it will respond that way.

Some (most) horses don't like to be "cuddled", most mares will be a bit twitchy about their flanks and under belly, lots of horses don't like sprays, but these are all things that need to be worked on until they become normal.
 
That wouldn't worry me at all. I have 2 mares, one for 1.5years (not that long for a major bond imo) I can touch her anywhere. My other mare I've had 17years she's like a best friend. But touch the teets?! I don't go anywhere near there unless I want to be kicked. The only time she's ever let me fiddle there lol when she had insect bites on it and I was applying cream. It was obviously really itchy so she was actually holding her hind leg up so I could do it. Any other time around teets and general back end she is very fussy about being touched. It's just the way she is. She doesn't like bring groomed with stiff brushes etc. She is super loyal and hardworking though, just bitchy lol
 
Agree with Cortez. Some horses just aren't cuddly. My first mare didn't appreciate cuddles, which was devastating to her then-14-year old owner (me), but over the years, I could do anything with that horse. Trail ride alone, chase cows, mounted games, etc. Never a cuddly a horse, but a horse who clearly trusted me.

As for the other stuff, that takes effort and time. I think if you approach the issue full of worry and waffle, "She's had such a terrible start in life and I'd better be careful of this fly spray" then the horse will pick up on that. If you act as though the horse shouldn't be at all worried about the fly spray, they pick up on that too and get used to things faster.
 
I agree - it sounds like you are being a bit hesitant around her and are trying to get her to be your friend rather than be the owner of a horse. This is not a dynamic that works well. To gain a horses trust consistency is the key and being hesitant makes them think there is something to be scared of.
 
Thanks all, much appreciated. I don’t hesitant around her to be fair but it is in my mind about her past so I may be giving off some negative vibes. I’m proud of our progress and will plod on with her education. She’s very respectful on the ground, gentle and quiet for a rising 4 year old. Just like us, they are all different.
 
It takes a lot of time.... my welsh was bought full of worms, bad back, ruined hocks and very headshy. He was also very food possessive. I do make allowances for him, but don’t let him try and walk all over me. It’s a tricky line between firm and fair that I walk with him. It took a few years for the headshy behaviour to vanish, ditto the food possession and the waving back legs when touched. I don’t tolerate that at all, but I accept he will always be a bit grumpy, and quite quick to react. My job is to never give him a reason to doubt my decisions or lose faith in my leadership. So if I tell him off, it’s fair, justified and clear, and if he’s genuinely worried and unsure, he gets reassurance and praise when he decides to trust me and get on with it. It’s not easy, but worth it when you know you’ve turned a horses life around. She’s only young, there is plenty of time ahead and it sounds like you’re doing a great job already.
 
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Tbh, at this point it's probably just her temperament/general youngster issues. I have two mares currently. Both I bought at 2 years, one with a known good upbringing, one with an unknown history but who was certainly very wary of humans, couldn't bear being touched and was pretty overwhelmed by life in general. The one with the nice background has a punky temperament and while she would tolerate me cuddling her, she would probably be fantasizing about biting my face off while I did it. The other you can cuddle, mess with, climb all over and generally treat like a pet if you want. It took her about 8 months to properly get over the idea that humans were terrifying, but you really wouldn't know that now.

Just keep doing what you're doing. Work out what things are important for her to be completely ok with and push some training effort into those, but don't expect her to suddenly be a different personality.
 
My mare is the same. I’ve owned her for over 10 years now and I know she workships me, but that’s only because I know her so well. To anyone else she’s a stroppy diva! I can apply do anything with her but it doesn’t stop her swishing her tail, lifting a leg or giving me a death stare. The only difference now is I know she won’t foliow through, she’s just having an opinion which is fine by me. She does like cuddle but only because I have to syringe meds down every day and we have a moment while I’m trying to get her to open her mouth.
 
Some things stick with them I think. I still have to build up to using sprays on M gently or he panics. Approach with any sort of wormer type syringe and he'll break twine and run. Farriers make him break out in a sweat and he's on high alert around smoke. No idea why for any of those, but he's 15 this year so it's pretty ingrained.

He does trust me tho. When the neighbouring farmer lit a huge fire on the field boundary without earning M practically jumped into my arms when I went to get him. I can work around his legs more easily than anyone and he just about tolerates me injecting him. But that's taken 4 years!

Humans do a cracking job of screwing up horses at times...
 
I agree about the humans! So easily avoided if some people would just use a little compassion. It can be so damaging.
 
One of mine isn’t the slightest bit cuddly, despite being well mannered he is likely to respond with flat back ears 😂 sounds like your mare though,should have seen him when I went to put Vaseline on his soles the first time last week, was fine once he had a look and realised it wasn’t anything nasty.
 
This reminds me of when I groomed the mare and one of the geldings a couple of days ago. The mare loves having her tail groomed but gives me a filthy look if I'm not careful around her abdomen/ groom her in a way she dissaproves of.

I could do anything with the gelding. He's so good natured. It's the same with the other gelding. Mares tend to be opinionated/sassy. I'm always a bit surprised by it if I haven't been around one in a while.
 
Very interesting thread that has hit home a little for me. I have three mares.
#1 (owned 3.5 years) has had a very privelaged life and been looked after well, I know her full history. I can do everything with her, she vaguely disagrees with having baths or being sprayed but doesn't complain too much. She LOVES having her belly and teats scratched by me and will stand all day long for me to do it, but at the same time she can be quite aloof and wouldn't really choose to spend time in my vicinity.

#2 (owned 2.5 years) I have no idea of her history but she was an import from Ireland at 6. She is jumpy and distrustful of men working on her feet, doesn't love being groomed and will swish tail/stamp feet, hates being clipped despite me trying to desensitise her, used to hate being tacked up although this is improving. She pulls a lot of faces whilst being worked around and I feel this has always made me wary of her and slightly untrusting, but she very very rarely follows through with any actions. On the flip side, she loves being near me and my OH, and is always resting her head on us/blowing on us/coming over to hang out in the field.

Mare #3 (owned 3 months) so far haven't found anything she objects to, although she has quite a sensitive mane area so isn't a huge fan of plaiting etc. Originally found her quite aloof but now she will enjoy a huge cuddle and scratch in the field.

What I've concluded from this is that all mares can be vastly different - this may sound stupid to some but I was always a gelding person before I bought my first mare. A few of the comments in this thread have made me think I need to adjust the way I approach mare #2 slightly.
 
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All so very different Atropa, I also have another filly who’s 2 later this year. She’s a traditional cob, bought to keep my Clyde company and she’s got an amazing character. Friendly beyond belief and you can do anything with her. I think because I have such a contrast with her, I notice it more with my Clyde. Chalk n cheese literally.
 
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I've had B 14 years and he still on occasion spins in the stable to get away from you. Although I can do absolutely everything with him, he's not remotely affectionate apart from wickering to me when he first sees me daily. W is a total different kettle of fish, possibly because I've had her since she was 3 and we've been through quite a lot together, she trusts me more than I ever imagined, she waits for me to save her if she's in trouble, she's a bit of a thug so she'll put herself in places she's not supposed to, knocks stuff over and is just daft. Luckily she's the sort that realises when she needs help and doesn't panic. She's so incredibly affectionate and loves everybody, kids dogs other horses, you name it. When she cane to me off bodmin at 3 years old she was a blank canvas with serious attitude, she's still full of attitude, my YM says W put manners in a box locked it and threw away the key years ago 😂 but she doesn't have a nasty bone in her body.
 
Out of 9 horses over 30 odd years, I've had 3 that were the "cuddly", let you do anything type. It's just how they were. My 2 best under saddle were only ever interested in you if you had food, and generally your average horse on the ground, but ridden, they were fantastic. I'm hoping the Dales might be the ultimate combination of people loving and great under saddle as so far I've not found both together!
 
cb - yep I think you are mad, but most of us are, so welcome to the club. When you put so much emotional energy into something I always think its hard to be objective. Your mare sounds great,and youve done loads with her. Not all horses will happily let you do everything with them ( regardless to the start in life). My first 2 homebreds, same mum different dad, chalk and cheese in some respects. The chestnut mare - you can touch anywhere, happy to be clipped in fact she loves it, happy wit spray , cuddly , one of those who will lie down in stable and you can sleep with them etc etc Her brother not cuddly, was ok to be clipped, but if you went underneath in one particular spot - well you took your life in your hands. He was very ticklish, he also hated his ears touched. I always joked that if someone had bought him they would have been on here saying they had a horse who must have been mistreated around the head/ears. But he would fall asleep in your arms if you stroked his face under his forelock.
My new mare who came under weight and had been used as a broodmare in a large herd ( so relatively untouched) has been amazing to work with. Everyday she has given a little bit more , she wasn't feral but not far off. As shes come round so fast shes off being backed. Very exciting

Just keep doing what you are doing and stop worrying x
 
Good to hear all the different stories with our very individual neddies. I know I worry too much but I also burst with pride too. We just invest so much into them, it’s exhausting at times.
 
horses all have different personalities regardless of their past. A good example of this is....

14.2hh 29 years old, I've had him over 10 years, he is not cuddly, wants to get on with the job, hates being groomed or touched and that is just how he is. He will however, hack out for miles and miles happily and loves to work. We just don't click like besties although he appreciates a warm bed and a good feed!!! He has never been one for affection. He has a second mum who rides him and they get on great, just his personality.

16.3hh fresian x came to me with issues a few years ago, not bad past though, put a lot of time and effort into him and he is my best friend and confidente! - he will do anything for you within reason and will give it 150%. He is slightly clingly, to the point of refusing to budge when leaving a competition if my friend rides him and I am not walking with them, he wonders where I have gone!!

3 miniatures, two cuddly, one with attitude, all in it for the food, other than the little mare who is rather mumsy and quite sweet!!!

They are just different.
 
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