'Silent' electric cars - will this be an issue out hacking?

[Pippity]

ELECTRIC CARS will have to produce as much noise as cars powered by internal combustion engines, under new EU rules. Euro MPs have decided that on safety grounds electric cars must lose one of their key advantages over their petrol and diesel counterparts — that they are less noisy. They are concerned that electric cars could be unnoticed by other road users, especially pedestrians.

Under the new rules — expected to come into force next year — electric and hybrid cars will have to artificially generate the sound of an engine revving below speeds of 13mph. Above that speed, tyre and wind noise will be enough to alert other road users.

The new legislation also says the artificial sounds already generated by some electric cars — such as the Blade Runner-type whine made by the Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe — are inadequate because they are not instantly recognisable as the noises of a car.

But if that's an EU rule, it's not going to affect us. Unfortunately.

 

[Annagain]

This has already happened to me. We have a right hand turn into the lane to our yard that's close to a blind bend. We can't see traffic coming towards us until we're already half way across the road so have always listened for cars before trotting across. As long as cars aren't speeding even if something does come round the bend we have just enough time to get across the road but it's a heart stopping moment. We did it about a year ago and an electric car appeared from around the bend. Luckily it was going slowly enough that, with slowing down and us speeding up we made it across but it was close!

 

[JennBags]

But if that's an EU rule, it's not going to affect us. Unfortunately.

Firstly, we haven't left the EU yet.
Secondly, car manufacturing relies on exports and imports, so we will still need to follow EU rules in order to sell any cars there, and any cars being imported will already follow those rules. They're not going to make different cars for the UK market.

 

[JennBags]

I was only considering the electric vehicle question myself yesterday so it's funny that a thread was started about it.
They do definitely make a noise, which is fine at low speeds but as others have suggested, it's when they're moving faster and you rely on listening for vehicles before crossing a road by a blind bend, it applies for pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders. We have a road that's really difficult to pull out of in a car, but on horseback it's not so bad as you can hear. It is a concern that as we move towards more electric vehicles on the roads that there will be more accidents.

 

[Pippity]

Firstly, we haven't left the EU yet.
Secondly, car manufacturing relies on exports and imports, so we will still need to follow EU rules in order to sell any cars there, and any cars being imported will already follow those rules. They're not going to make different cars for the UK market.

They already do make different cars for the UK market - most of the world drives on the other side of the road. I'm not saying it definitely won't be a thing here, just that it won't be required if Brexit goes ahead.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Some cars are already incredibly quiet and I've often turned round out hacking and been surprised to see one approaching as I hadn't heard it

I've also been helped by hearing them approaching when approaching the narrow bendy sections and will tend to wait on the straight bit if I can hear one coming, especially if it's at speed

 

[Flag_Amb]

Currently working on electrification of cars and having been around them in person, you can hear them at low level but they aren’t anywhere near as noisy as your traditional internal combustion engine. OEM/automotive manufacturers do in fact code/specify cars differently depending on country (we do, I used to see all the documents) however if its seen as a safety critical item it will likely be standardised and therefore UK cars would receive this. I can dig out some documents at work to check though.
I don't believe the sound they will be putting out will actually be that loud though as engines have become quieter in general - food for thought, I would hope my stupidly sensitive gelding would hear it since a leaf moving can be heard half way down the arena

 

[Fragglerock]

Junctions will be worst. One of our bridle paths has a blind exit onto a fast road. We already don't use it on a windy day because it's too dangerous when you can't hear the engines. Electric cars will make it suicide.

This ^^

 

[Mule]

I believe from July all electric cars will be fitted with something that makes a sound for this very reason.

That's good news

 

[splashgirl45]

we have an electric car in our village and i was crossing the road on foot after listening and was really surprised when this car came close to me, made me jump and i didnt hear anything at all. luckily for me the driver is very aware and doesnt drive fast...

 

[case895]

I first encountered an electric car whilst hacking 5 years ago. Mr (old) horse was not at all happy and planted his feet as it was wrong and different. The next time we encountered the same car (it was a private drive) he didn't bat an eyelid. He got over it.

 

[Gift Horse]

The problem is not the horses being afraid of electric cars! It’s the rider not being able to hear them as they approach. All my hacking is on windy lanes only wide enough for one vehicle. I rely heavily on being able to hear what is coming towards me.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I am very worried about this: have a deaf friend and she is worried too. Also a huge concern for blind people.

WHY oh why can't things like this be thought about BEFORE they manufacture the dang cars in the first place??

I don't think anyone will listen to the opinion of horse riders; it'll be (typically) the cyclists who have a huge voice, who just might be listened to on this one!! Hoping so anyway.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

A lady at my yard has one.
The horses haven't been bothered about it at all when she comes on the yard...... Me on the other hand spooks all over the place 😳🙄

Though her horse no longer whinnies when she arrives as he can't hear her engine.

 

[ROMANY 1959]

Yes, I don’t have horses now, but I was walking down. Country lane, with 3 dogs on a lead, when an electric car tooted me as I had not heard it come up behind us, so I was walking in it’s way. I did read something in a Sunday paper a while ago that they will be doing something about the silent cars.. LUCKILY , around my way there are hardly any places to charge them up, so not many about yet

 

[ester]

The problem is not the horses being afraid of electric cars! It’s the rider not being able to hear them as they approach. All my hacking is on windy lanes only wide enough for one vehicle. I rely heavily on being able to hear what is coming towards me.

Not the car themselves but for the reason that we ask cyclists to call ahead rather than pass silently.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I wonder if the sales pitch when a new electric car is being tried prior to possible purchase mentions the danger that they pose to other road users? I certainly wouldn’t buy a current ‘silent’ version, they must be a nightmare to drive with other road users continually being taken by surprise by them.

It’s such an obvious design fault, that should have been dealt with at the design phase.

 

[fburton]

But perhaps future self driving cars will be programmed to slow sufficiently and give a suitably wide berth when coming across a horse on the road, and indeed to go suitable speeds on country lanes. So maybe there will be advantages to new technology.

There are other potential technological solutions to the problem in this Internet-of-Things world. For example, cars could be equipped with transmitters that warn other road users of their approach. And/or the other way round, warning motorists of the upcoming presence of other road users. Alternatively, instead of cars producing a noise all the time, it could be activated within a certain distance of 'beacons' that could be placed in sensitive areas or carried by road users.

Of course, making electric cars noisy is the simple fix.

 

[Keith_Beef]

It’s such an obvious design fault, that should have been dealt with at the design phase.

There are other potential technological solutions to the problem in this Internet-of-Things world. For example, cars could be equipped with transmitters that warn other road users of their approach. And/or the other way round, warning motorists of the upcoming presence of other road users. Alternatively, instead of cars producing a noise all the time, it could be activated within a certain distance of 'beacons' that could be placed in sensitive areas or carried by road users.

Of course, making electric cars noisy is the simple fix.

So the problem is that an electric cars is too quiet.

We could put the responsibility on the driver of the silent car, to announce its presence.

Or we can oblige everybody else (cyclists, pedestrians, horse riders) to carry electronic devices that either detect the presence of the silent car or that send out a signal that is detected by the silent car, triggering a noise...

I've written on HHO before about the silent electric buses that tootle around Montmartre among the hordes of tourists wandering around in the streets. The buses are fitted with a device that the driver can activate, that generates a gentle but clearly audible noise like a little bell.

I'm too young to remember them, but didn't cars used to be fitted with a switch for "town" and "country" modes for the horn?

 

[fburton]

Bicycle bells for cars... I like it!

 

[Keith_Beef]

I have done the opposite: an air horn on my bicycle.

 

[Tiddlypom]

An air horn ! Something a little gentler on the ear would suffice. We spent a very pleasant day yesterday cycling along the multi use High Peak trail. A friendly ‘hello, there!’ called out initially about 100 yards behind oblivious walkers and joggers, and repeated as necessary on the (slow) approach worked well, with further pleasantries exchanged subsequently on either side. We have bells fitted, too.

Electric cars are sold with a big hype on ‘saving the planet’. Maybe they are silent as they double up their benefits by assisting to reduce the human population.

 

[Keith_Beef]

An air horn ! Something a little gentler on the ear would suffice.

Originally, it was so that drivers in cars with music turned up would be able to hear me.

Then I tried using it to scare pedestrians off the cycle path. It usually works, but sometimes the pedestrians seem to think that it is a lorry or car horn, and don't realise that it's a warning that a cyclist is approaching.

 

[spacefaer]

There are two electric cars that I regularly meet out hacking. They are more audible on wet days as you can hear the tyres on the wet roads, but I've never had a problem with them, and the horses have never reacted any differently to them.

 

[Gift Horse]

Not the car themselves but for the reason that we ask cyclists to call ahead rather than pass silently.

I take your point, I’m sure horses will be spooked by them.
My 2 horses appear to hear our electric car (I think because it makes much more road noise than a bicycle) they are unfazed. It’s me that can’t hear it coming 😏

 

[Mister Ted]

I think it will be a problem for people and horses.One came up behind me on a single lane quiet road when I was out with the dog.I just happened to turn round and there it was silent.! I managed to jump out of the way but what a fright.

 

[Bob notacob]

I think someone should walk in front of the car carrying a flag (so much for progress

 

[case895]

My company car expires in September and I am coming off the scheme (they only do diesel Audi, Mercedes, BMW and JLR - nothing I want) and getting a Nissan Note or Hyundai Ioniq. We have solar panels and Tesla Powerwall batteries, so it makes sense. Horses are not naturally aware of cars. They only react badly to electrics as they are unusual. As they become more common, our horses will get used to them.

 

[JennBags]

It's not about the horses being spooked by them, its about we riders not hearing them approach, especially on country lanes or when crossing roads near blind bends.

 

[teddypops]

My company car expires in September and I am coming off the scheme (they only do diesel Audi, Mercedes, BMW and JLR - nothing I want) and getting a Nissan Note or Hyundai Ioniq. We have solar panels and Tesla Powerwall batteries, so it makes sense. Horses are not naturally aware of cars. They only react badly to electrics as they are unusual. As they become more common, our horses will get used to them.

It’s not about that though. It’s about not hearing them coming and potentially not being able to get out of their way!