*silly question alert* regarding Dun horses.

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EbonyJayne

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This may sound ridiculous but I know nothing about colours/colour genes ect.
I absolutely love dun horses and while having a conversation with my husband about how much I love them I realised I don't know the following -

1. Can any breed of horse be a dun? Or only certain ones? If so what are they?

2. Does either the dam or sire or both have to be an actual dun or just have the gene? Can they have the gene without being dun themselves?

I can't think of another question right now, but I'm sure I will.

Sorry if it seems like I'm a clueless idiot! :p sometimes I can be.
 
I'm afraid I don't know about the genealogy but I know that Welsh cannot be dun. My Welsh, when born was dun as I thought but I have been correctly informed that she was buckskin!
 
I personally like red/chestnut Dun best, it's such a subtle colour. :D

Black Dun is often called grulla (if the horse is female) or grullo (if the horse is male).

Enfys on here has a chestnut based horse with both a Dun gene and a Cream gene, this combination is called a Dunalino. A black based horse with agouti, dun and a cream gene is a Dunskin.

This is worth reading too.
http://www.grullablue.com/colors/dun_factor_markings.htm
 
Faracat said:
I personally like red/chestnut Dun best, it's such a subtle colour. :D

Black Dun is often called grulla (if the horse is female) or grullo (if the horse is male).

Enfys on here has a chestnut based horse with both a Dun gene and a Cream gene, this combination is called a Dunalino. A black based horse with agouti, dun and a cream gene is a Dunskin.

This is worth reading too.
http://www.grullablue.com/colors/dun_factor_markings.htm
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Thank you. Oh your handy to know!;p
 
EbonyJayne said:
This site is amazing! Thank you. I'm fascinated by it. Do many people know about the colour genes do you think?
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I have found that the average person who collects/shows/paints model horses (but doesn't necessarily have a real horse) knows more about the genetics than the average horse owner! The whitehorseproductions site is run by a model horse artist.

IME no serious model horse person would describe a horse as tri colored, it would be Bay Tobiano or Frame Overo Buckskin (depending on what the horse actually was).
 
Fjord's are an interesting breed as you have brown dun, red dun, yellow dun, grey and uls dun (white, which has the cream gene). Coupled with the primitive markings the Uls dun is a beautiful colour.
 
cambrica said:
I'm afraid I don't know about the genealogy but I know that Welsh cannot be dun. My Welsh, when born was dun as I thought but I have been correctly informed that she was buckskin!
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Sorry but my welsh is a dun she is a section A

All sections of Welsh ponies and Welsh cobs have small heads with large eyes, sloped shoulders, short backs and strong hindquarters. The forelegs are straight and the cannon bone short. The tail is high-set. The breed ranges from 11 hands (44 inches, 112 cm) for the smallest ponies to over 16 hands (64 inches, 163 cm) for the tallest cobs.[7] They may be any solid colour, but not piebald, skewbald, (US: pinto)[8] or leopard-spotted.[2] Black, greys, chestnut and bay are the most common, but there are also duns and palominos.[3] However, it should be noted that British equine colour terminology commonly refers to the buckskin colour, which is caused by the same dilution gene that produces palomino, as "dun", but the true dun gene is extremely rare in the Welsh breed.
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But not impossible
 
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My little welsh A

001_zpsd4d3c5dc.jpg
 
<<< He had no dorsal stripe and was dun by name and dun by papers (twas before passport days)! ID x TB.
 
Lindylouanne said:
My HanovarianxWelshxTB was dun and I always through his colour came from the welsh side of the family. He definitely didn't have a dorsal stripe.
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I really like Fjord horses and I've always been fascinated by the dun colour, so I've posted links to e.g. the grullablue.com/Cedar Ridge site (one of the links Faracat have posted) before on HHO. Last time I read about dun colouring and the genetics behind it, it said that usually the only thing a dun horse has to have to be a dun, is a dorsal stripe. If it doesn't have a dorsal stripe, it is highly unlikely to be a dun. If it does have a dorsal stripe, it could be a dun, but it could also be a false dorsal stripe, caused by countershading, and thereby have another colour than dun.

So if your HanovarianxWelshxTB didn't have a dorsal stripe, I don't think he was a dun. If he did have a dorsal stripe, it could be a false dorsal stripe, and as I understand it, it is also possible that it came from the Thoroughbred ancestor, I've read that they can have countershading.
 
HGA: As far as I'm aware, there is no dun gene in any of the Welsh breeding; there is cream, however. Your girl looks buckskin to me, with countershading, giving the look of a 'dorsal stripe'.

From horsecolor.com

"Breeds that have Dun

Not all breeds have the Dun gene. Some of the most common breeds do not have dun, most notably the Thoroughbred and Arabian, and most Warmbloods. Even in breeds where it occurs, it is not a very common color. Many of the American breeds do carry dun, including the QH and derivative breeds (Paint, Appy, POA) and most of the gaited breeds (ASB, TWH, MFT, Paso) although it is very rare in those. Note that in many breeds it is quite common to call buckskins "dun" and therefore you should never presume a horse registered as "dun" is actually dun, especially in British breeds (i.e. Connemara, Welsh)."

Many countries are ahead of the UK with their understanding of genetics and terminology. This is a good site to read when you have a chance; http://www.wpcs.com.au/formsinfo/colours-markings/cream-dilution

This site is also quite good; http://bridlepath.wordpress.com/2007/04/29/horse-colour-demystified-the-dun-gene/
 
Thanks everyone. I'll read up on all the links. I feel like I'm starting to get it. My friend has a youngster which I thought was dun. I'm going to get some pics and upload them over the weekend to see what people think of her - I love her. She has unknown breeding.
 
SatsumaGirl said:
HGA: As far as I'm aware, there is no dun gene in any of the Welsh breeding; there is cream, however. Your girl looks buckskin to me, with countershading, giving the look of a 'dorsal stripe'.
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I love the dun/buckskin debate hehe.

I started a thread a while back and I think someone suggested a welshy had recently been tested positive for the dun gene which is interesting but the majority of 'dun' horses let alone welshes are actually buckskin.

Off the top of my head highlands, icelandic, QHs, mustangs are prolific dun carriers I am sure there are many more. Personally I think grulla/ black duns are stunning :D
 
I'm told that my dun is a buckskin. he's part connemara and part welsh part TB part arab. he has a dorsal stripe.
His full sister is palomino and a very nice one at that, not sooty.
 
Dun is dominant so unless either parent carries the gene and with his sister being palomino and the breeding I think he's definitely buckskin and the dorsal stripe is counter shading.
I think we need to start a movement 'buckskins are sexy embrace the buckskin' :P
Equine tapestry is another artist I think who has a great interesting colour blog if you get into it. if you google jennifer hoffman horse colour genetics there's a fun tool where you can see the geneotypes and design a horse :P
 
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Horsesforever1 said:
I'm told that my dun is a buckskin. he's part connemara and part welsh part TB part arab. he has a dorsal stripe.
His full sister is palomino and a very nice one at that, not sooty.
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A Palomino sister should be a big clue that it's cream at work, not dun. What colour are the parents, one of them must carry cream?
 
It depends!!!
There is a dun gene that is prevalant in certain breeds,
More common is buckskin, which is a dilution gene on bay
Any breed that has bay and allows dilutes may be buckskin,

cremello and perlino are the most common double dilutes, although there are also champagne, silver and a few others, that have slightly different effects (double champagne doesnt show etc)

Some bays with specific shades can look to be a dun/dilute, but do not have the relevant genes.
 
Ooh I am intrigued now. Its many years since I had K so I have just dug out a load of photos of him but none show the top of his back. In winter he was very cream and in summer a lovely golden colour so maybe he was a buckskin rather than dun. I do remember he always had a lovely summer coat and people used to comment that it must have been difficult to get him so shiny.
 
HGA-12 said:
My little welsh A

001_zpsd4d3c5dc.jpg
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The head being lighter than the body shows that she is buckskin not dun, the eelstripe in this case is from a different gene that causes countershading.

I've had all 3 main dun colours my blue dun mare with bay dun foal
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and my red dun gelding
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Gloi said:
The head being lighter than the body shows that she is buckskin not dun, the eelstripe in this case is from a different gene that causes countershading.

I've had all 3 main dun colours my blue dun mare with bay dun foal
attachment.php

and my red dun gelding
attachment.php
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That is due to my poor photograph This is her changing coat her summer coat is one colour golden - obvious dorsal stripe
 
HGA-12 said:
That is due to my poor photograph This is her changing coat her summer coat is one colour golden - obvious dorsal stripe
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Her dorsal stripe is not due to dun though, you can get a dorsal stripe without the horse being dun.
 
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