Single Horse Trailers and Towing without needing to do your test?!

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Thanks! No nothing in the book, only the maximum trailer weight! I even phoned loads of dealerships to see if they knew, they were none too helpful!!

Sorry for post hijacking btw!

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No bother, it's so frustrating trying to work out what it all means and where to find the proof! I'm such a geek when it comes to this topic as I spent about three months this summer researching and figuring it all out!
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What's really frustrating is folk who tell me I'm wrong. They tend to be people with pre-1997 licences who have never had any need to consider it, which is understandable, why would you if you didn't need to? But please don't tell the person who has spend hours trawling dull DVLA/VOSA/car documents and triple checked it all that they're talking nonsense when you know nothing about the subject!!!
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I think that B+E is just your provisional entitlement, which means as someone else says, you can tow with L plates on (with someone else who IS entitled to tow, ie taken test or passed test before 1997) and NOT on your own.

Seriously, just take the test. I had to take mine and I feel a lot happier having done it. I have friends who passed their tests a year or two before me who tow and they are awful; they don't know the speed limits they are supposed to drive at with trailer, can't park it, will only park in certain places in case they get stuck. One of them has to drive the route to anywhere she goes in trailer the day before because she's so terrified (that includes somewhere a few hours away - she will still drive it the day before in her car) and flat refuses to drive any faster than 30mph. Another thinks she can drive just as quickly with the trailer as without so goes down country lanes at 70mph
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As for the trailer, I personally don't like Cheval Liberte trailers but it's just personal - think they look like ice cream vans and I don't know any horses who will load in them without causing a fuss. I've towed one and I found it felt like it could take off at any minute. Give me my solid old Ifor any day!
 
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What amazes me though ChristmasFairy, are the people that hold their license from before 1997 and who just seem to think they can hitch up and tow away with no instruction....yet for those that can avoid having to take a test through balancing the weights (post 97 license holders), people seem to give them a hard time about it.

?????

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I know exactly what you mean!
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Figjam- I understand now about the B+E provision entitlement as i dont remeber doing any additional test other than my driving test. However my mum passed in 1984 (wayyyyy before 1997
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) and she will be with me at all times so i am still legal.

Im really not set against doing my test, but i had started to reseach exactly what i can tow and hence started doing some figures and realised i dont have to do it thats all.

I havent got some nice 4x4 to pull a trailer, i have a my OH's new estate car instead which means i have a very limited pulling power and have to work with what ive got which is fine but i think regardless of my test the estate will not pull a double horse trailer so im going to have to opt for a single trailer.
 
Well if you have your Mum with you and L-plates on, you don't have to worry about the weight relationship between car and trailer in legal terms. Like I say though, you won't be able to tow on motorways, so may involve slight detours depending on where you want to go!

What estate car is it? Parkers is pretty good for giving an idea of weights, but of course the best place to get accurate numbers specifically for your car are the chassis plate and V5 as I mentioned earlier.

As someone else has mentioned, modern single trailers (not the old "wardrobes on wheels" as my husband refers to the ancient ones!) are not unstable and absolutely perfect for the one horse owner who doesn't have a big 4x4. Certainly safer than trying to pull a big double trailer with a car not up to it.
 
Its a Vauxhall Omega estate 2.6 V6.

Its Kerb Weight is: 1658kg
Cars MAM is: 2258kg
Trailers unladen is 550kg
Laden (with horsey!) around 1000kg

So the cars MAM and trailers MAM is around 3288kg (well under the 3.5tonnes) plus, the car is still approx 600kgs heavier than the trailer keeping me within that limit.

Have a got it right?
 
In an emergency situation (such as a tyre blow out) you need to know that you can stop your vehicle and bring it under control quickly. When you are near to the vehicles weight and breaking limits the chances of doing so are very much reduced.

You have a responsibility towards your horse and also that of the motoring public so take a test and get yourself a vehicle and trailer which will enable you to comply with all the requirements.
 
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Its a Vauxhall Omega estate 2.6 V6.

Its Kerb Weight is: 1658kg
Cars MAM is: 2258kg
Trailers unladen is 550kg
Laden (with horsey!) around 1000kg

So the cars MAM and trailers MAM is around 3288kg (well under the 3.5tonnes) plus, the car is still approx 600kgs heavier than the trailer keeping me within that limit.

Have a got it right?

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The Trailer's MAM is not just the weight of trailer + load it's actually carrying, it's the Maximum Authorised Mass that it can legally carry. For example, my IW 401 has MAM 1450kg, but weighs 770kg and carrys ~600kg when horse + hay on board, so actual weight I'm towing is only 1370kg. Does that make sense?

With your set up, you can have a trailer with a MAM up to 1242kg MAM (3500kg - car MAM of 2258kg). This MAM is also less than the kerb weight, so you're fine on that front.

This does pretty much restrict you to the Cheval Liberte 1003XL, which you should be able to get downrated to 1200kg, leaving you 700kg payload.

However, if you are looking to tow with your Mum on board and L-plates, you can tow a trailer with any MAM as long as the actual weight you are towing is safely within your car's capabilities. Does that make sense?!
 
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In an emergency situation (such as a tyre blow out) you need to know that you can stop your vehicle and bring it under control quickly. When you are near to the vehicles weight and breaking limits the chances of doing so are very much reduced.

You have a responsibility towards your horse and also that of the motoring public so take a test and get yourself a vehicle and trailer which will enable you to comply with all the requirements.

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I am complying with the requirements if you bothered to read the post properly! We do not all have the luxury of owning 4x4s to tow with so dont patronise me by speaking to me like a child.
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CC- max towing capacity is 1650 or 85% is 1409.
 
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In an emergency situation (such as a tyre blow out) you need to know that you can stop your vehicle and bring it under control quickly. When you are near to the vehicles weight and breaking limits the chances of doing so are very much reduced.

You have a responsibility towards your horse and also that of the motoring public so take a test and get yourself a vehicle and trailer which will enable you to comply with all the requirements.

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Of course this is true, but by sticking to the restrictions imposed on those without B+E entitlements, the set up will be much further within the towing vehicle's capabilities than many set ups driven by older drivers who aren't restricted in this way.

How many times have you seen a big old Rice trailer being towed by a Freelander? By having to stay within the restrictions for towing without the B+E, I am well within my car's stated towing capacity of 1800kg. If it were my husband towing, he could chuck a IW510 on the back with a large horse and tow 1700kg, but it wouldn't be as safe as my current set up?
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Not everyone has the funds to run a 4x4 and towing with a large family car and lighter single trailer is just as good as towing with a smaller 4x4 and larger trailer which many people do. It's just everyone seems to look down their nose at you.
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Well said FigJam - I honestly wonder how many trailer set ups there are out there that are unsafe, but just because they have their license to tow they do so without a second thought. And quite often cant tow very well either!!

I'm trying to work out all my weights to find out if its possible for me to tow; I will still have a few lessons but it works out better for me (plus my cars towing capability is only 1500kgs so if I did take a test I'm still limited by what I can tow anyway!) than going and buying a 3.5t box cheaply that isnt particulary safe.
 
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Its a Vauxhall Omega estate 2.6 V6.

Its Kerb Weight is: 1658kg
Cars MAM is: 2258kg
Trailers unladen is 550kg
Laden (with horsey!) around 1000kg

So the cars MAM and trailers MAM is around 3288kg (well under the 3.5tonnes) plus, the car is still approx 600kgs heavier than the trailer keeping me within that limit.

Have a got it right?

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The Trailer's MAM is not just the weight of trailer + load it's actually carrying, it's the Maximum Authorised Mass that it can legally carry. For example, my IW 401 has MAM 1450kg, but weighs 770kg and carrys ~600kg when horse + hay on board, so actual weight I'm towing is only 1370kg. Does that make sense?

With your set up, you can have a trailer with a MAM up to 1242kg MAM (3500kg - car MAM of 2258kg). This MAM is also less than the kerb weight, so you're fine on that front.

This does pretty much restrict you to the Cheval Liberte 1003XL, which you should be able to get downrated to 1200kg, leaving you 700kg payload.

However, if you are looking to tow with your Mum on board and L-plates, you can tow a trailer with any MAM as long as the actual weight you are towing is safely within your car's capabilities. Does that make sense?!

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Ohh yes i see, i wasnt taking into consideration my trailers MAM- it states on the Cheval webiste that the series 1000's MAM is 1400kg..

My mum will be coming with me all times, bless her!
 
Lucky you having a Mum happy to come along with you. Mine has only met my horse a few times and just stands at a distance saying "yes, she's pretty"! She's a little scared of horses!

My husband is very happy that I've been able to get a set up which means I can tow her around myself, saves him being dragged along all the time, it's only some of the time now!
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You are probably able to downrate the CL to 1200kg, may be worth asking the manufacturer direct? Saves you needing the L-plates and avoiding motorways. Just to bear in mind for the future.

Good luck with the trailer hunt, it's worth the slog, I love my wee Trev!
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Lucky you having a Mum happy to come along with you. Mine has only met my horse a few times and just stands at a distance saying "yes, she's pretty"! She's a little scared of horses!

My husband is very happy that I've been able to get a set up which means I can tow her around myself, saves him being dragged along all the time, it's only some of the time now!
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You are probably able to downrate the CL to 1200kg, may be worth asking the manufacturer direct? Saves you needing the L-plates and avoiding motorways. Just to bear in mind for the future.

Good luck with the trailer hunt, it's worth the slog, I love my wee Trev!
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Im going to buy brand new as they just dont seem to come up 2nd hand and if they do- they're not much cheaper!
I want to make sure its all legal incase there are days my mum wont be able to come although she loves horses she doesnt ride and obv has other things to do than cart me around everywhere
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Thankyou for all your help!
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Well said FigJam - I honestly wonder how many trailer set ups there are out there that are unsafe, but just because they have their license to tow they do so without a second thought. And quite often cant tow very well either!!

I'm trying to work out all my weights to find out if its possible for me to tow; I will still have a few lessons but it works out better for me (plus my cars towing capability is only 1500kgs so if I did take a test I'm still limited by what I can tow anyway!) than going and buying a 3.5t box cheaply that isnt particulary safe.

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Thanks! It gets very frustrating, but I'm glad some folk understand what I'm saying!

What is your car's kerb weight? That will be the toughest part to get matched up, as if it's tow capability is only 1500kg, it sounds like it may be a slightly lighter car and therefore hard to get a trailer with a small enough MAM but enough payload for you.
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That's the tricky part, along with have a car heavy enough kerb weight but small enough MAM to meet both criteria!

You would certainly get a much better condition trailer for your money than a 3.5t lorry, plus the running costs of a trailer are so much less. The new 3.5t lorries are fab, but SO expensive! Could do the test and run a 4x4 and bigger trailer cheaper probably!

I best remember to pick up a lottery ticket on the way home tonight, eh?!
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Im going to buy brand new as they just dont seem to come up 2nd hand and if they do- they're not much cheaper!
I want to make sure its all legal incase there are days my mum wont be able to come although she loves horses she doesnt ride and obv has other things to do than cart me around everywhere
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Thankyou for all your help!
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You're more than welcome, I know how confusing it is trying to work out what's right information and what's wrong!

If you are wanting to make sure you're legal on the odd occasion going without your Mum, you will need to downrate the trailer's MAM to less than your car's kerb weight, which for you would be something like 1200kg. This still leaves you 700kg which is enough for your horse plus a haynet.

You asking Santa very nicely then? At least you'll get to pick your preferred colour too!
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(it's a good idea to go for a lighter colour as this stops the trailer getting too hot in the summer, although CL have nice white roofs and are fibreglass, not metal, so should be good at deflecting heat anyway.)
 
I'm not sure, I am going to go and work out chassis plate tomorrow with a print out of your instructions!!

Its a 5 door older Rav-4, the largest number on the chassis plate is I think about 3800kgs - i could be wrong - (which I'm guessing includes the 1500kg max towing capacity)so I just need to find out what weights are what, and then work out what trailers I can get at what MAM - I looked at the CL ones and they can plate them at as low as 1100kg MAM, my mare is only 450kg which is lucky so I could get away with that - fingers crossed.

I've looked at the van-boxes and I could probably only afford £4k tops, which isn't going to get me much unless I am very lucky (which I tend not to be!!).
 
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I'm not sure, I am going to go and work out chassis plate tomorrow with a print out of your instructions!!

Its a 5 door older Rav-4, the largest number on the chassis plate is I think about 3800kgs - i could be wrong - (which I'm guessing includes the 1500kg max towing capacity)so I just need to find out what weights are what, and then work out what trailers I can get at what MAM - I looked at the CL ones and they can plate them at as low as 1100kg MAM, my mare is only 450kg which is lucky so I could get away with that - fingers crossed.

I've looked at the van-boxes and I could probably only afford £4k tops, which isn't going to get me much unless I am very lucky (which I tend not to be!!).

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According to Parkers (I just looked up a random model, you'll be able to pin point the actual one you have!) here: Toyota Rav4 2.0 GX 5d Facts & Figures that type of car weighs 1310kg, so a CL rated at 1100kg MAM would meet the criteria.

The 3800kg figure should be the gross train weight so 3800kg-1500kg = 2300kg for your car's MAM. (this should be the second highest figure on your chassis plate) Add this to a 1100kg MAM trailer and you are within the 3500kg, happy days!
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A new CL will be less than your 4k budget and much safer than a lorry at that price range.
 
Good guess it is the GX model!!

A new CL is about half of my budget which is quite good to know....and as I think someone else said - with a single trailer you cant give anyone a lift!! (I say my budget - what I could get on a loan so obviously the less the better!)

I may pm you though once I check its plate jsut to be sure!!
 
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Good guess it is the GX model!!

A new CL is about half of my budget which is quite good to know....and as I think someone else said - with a single trailer you cant give anyone a lift!! (I say my budget - what I could get on a loan so obviously the less the better!)

I may pm you though once I check its plate jsut to be sure!!

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That was a good guess!
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Fingers crossed your car's MAM and kerb weight fit in nicely with a CL, they do hold their value as they're so rare to come by 2nd hand, so it's an investment really!
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(that was my excuse to my husband!)

I'm loving having freedom, have neever had the opportunity to get out and about before so have been really busy his last month going to lessons and even my first ever competition!
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Here's my girly trying out her new wheels for the first time back in September when I got Trev;

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She'd been refusing to go in my friend's Bateson Ascot, but stomped straight on to the IW first time!
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Figjam - are you sure about the not being able to tow on motorways. When I did my hgv test (different thing I know - but the training is along the same vein - as in furthering your driving licence) we were allowed to drive on the motorway, and did so regularly in our lessons.

You are probably right - you know a whole load about this more than I do for sure!!!
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To be honest, the not towing on motorways under a provisional licence was told to me by yard mate who has recently done her B+E and was towing for a couple of years with L-plates/"supervisor". It made sense to me as drivers on a "normal" provisional licence aren't allowed to drive on motorways, so figured it would be the same rules for a provisional licence of any category.
 
Just a quickie question?

How much is the trailer test and do you have to have 'official training' or can you just get your Dad to take you out?

A friend is in the same quandary as all of you.
 
I hate to say that the MAM of your trailer can be anything you want it to be.

Replaiting your trailer be it a 505 of a 510 or any other type of trailer allows you to tow with cars with lower MAMs.

Which means that you could technically buy a 505 have it replated for a max of what ever you like and tow with a post 1997 licence.

I have been calling various gov bodies about this for months and I keep getting told that as long as you car is legal to tow the trailer with the MAM then your licence allows you to tow what is acutally in the trailer as long as car plus trailer plus horse is under 3.5tonnes.

So for instance 2 ton car+900kg trailer+500kg horse means your legal to tow with a post 1997 licence.

Now before anyone jumps on my head here I am only putting forward my side of things. I have spent ages on this as well. My OH is doing his trailer test in the new year as I will be getting a second pony and there for will be over the limit with two ponies on my 505.

My dad tows with pre 1997 licence and does so with due care and attention, he has been driving racehorses around with a 4x4 and a trailer for years as well as towing cattle and sheep from being a farmer so the attcks on pre 1997 licence holders I find rather distastefull!!!
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Nikki xxx
 
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