SJ help please? Need to leave the fences up.....

Pidgeon

Pidgeon

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Ok so for those that have been following mine and Pidge's progress you may be aware that his confidence is growing at a faster rate than mine!
He has now got to the point where he is too cocky and doesn't really make an effort over the smaller fences hence us havign a few down :(
Last weekend at Eland Eventer Trial 80cm we just brushed one SJ and on Saturday we did the Oli T Arena Eventing 2'6"-2'9" where we brushed 3 SJ's down :eek: as he just had the attitude they weren't worth picking his feet up for :(
So do I just have to bite the bullet and jump 3' or bigger where he does actually pick his feet up, or is there a way to make him pay attention over the smaller courses?
Sorry at work so can't post comparsion pics but to give you an idea, front legs a dangling when jumping under 3' and nice and neat and picked up when jumping 3' and over :rolleyes::D
Help and advice much appreciated as always :D
 
Short answer.. I would say yes :D

I remember the first time I took my old lad out - did the 2'3 class just as a confidence builder for us both and the bugger knocked virtually every pole! Did the 2'9 and went clear.. horses!! Sounds like Pidge is getting complacent with those 'teeny' fences ;)
 
no get yourself a good gridwork book there are various exersizes you can do to make him snap up infront and create a better shape over a fence. the basics to any equestrian discipline are important so if you start off right you will progress on the right lines another thing that it could be as another thought is that its possible he could be tight in his shoulder and finding it hard to snap up infront as quick as he previously was. in your pics can you tell if its a particular leg taking the poles off?
 
Sounds like Pidge then :p and yes the smaller courses he just doesn't bother and also has a tendancy to try to cart me round whereas when the height goes up he backs off and actually picks up :D
 
I don't think there is a problem with his shape over a fence or in picking up as he does both great when the height goes up :rolleyes: Ah shoulders are just a tad tight as being done in a couple of weeks by his physio (should have been treated but would have meant couldn't have done his eventer trial) and he was slightly out on his shoulders and left hindquarters.
 
Pidgeon said:
and also has a tendancy to try to cart me round whereas when the height goes up he backs off and actually picks up :D
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That to me suggests where the problem actually sits. It may well be the approach / canter that is the issue, not the size of the fence. Teaching him to approach in a consistent rythm with hocks engaged no matter what height the fence is crucial. If not then once he gets confident at 3' the problem will re-appear.
 
JunoXV said:
That to me suggests where the problem actually sits. It may well be the approach / canter that is the issue, not the size of the fence. Teaching him to approach in a consistent rythm with hocks engaged no matter what height the fence is crucial. If not then once he gets confident at 3' the problem will re-appear.
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Totally agree with this. You need to get him so he’s listening to you whatever size the fences are – it’s not really up to him if he can be bothered to jump them! Do you have any SJing lessons? What does your trainer say? Sounds like you need to focus and having him balanced and in a nice rhythm, it’s probably because he’s rushing and getting flat. Going up in size maybe a short term solution but he’s not going to back himself of 3’ forever so he will probably get clumsy at that height too eventually.
 
While I agree with the above, I do think you should go on to bigger fences IF you are happy to do so.
Some horses are just never sensible about small fences, it doesn't mean they're not properly schooled, it's just their sense of humour coming out, they can't take tiny fences seriously so they muck about at them. When faced with bigger fences, they pay much more attention (to rider and fences) so everything is actually easier, bizarrely.
Have a jumping lesson with someone good who you trust, and ask them to get the poles up. Have it video'd too so you will know what you need to work on.
Grids & related distances are a good way of getting to bigger fences with the reassurance that the distances are perfect. Good luck!
 
Hi Sue, I'm having the same problems with Ruby! My plan is to really concentrate on the flatwork until we get a much better canter, then lots of Gridwork, but some of our issues are the fences coming up too quick in the ring and her getting over excited! So don't know how to sort that out!
 
Completely agree with Juno. :) My SJ instructor starts everyone over poles and small fences, regardless what height you are jumping in the ring, because whatever height they are at, the horse needs to be listenign to you and in control and trying. :) You need to have a good canter, approach etc, however small or big the fences are. :D

If you want some lessons with a "SJing" instructor for a different point of view (I don;t know who you have lessons with at the mo!), PM me and I will send you Di's details. She has improved my Sjing no end, and is a fantastic teacher. :)
 
sorry perhaps didn't make it clear enough, he tries to cart me round when the fences are smaller but I don't let him, however when its bigger he doesn't try to cart me round, its like he settles concentrates and jumps :rolleyes:
I work very hard on getting him to take the weight behind and have SJ lessons with my BE accredited trainer say twice a month. He doesn't go flat over a fence he just doesn't tuck his legs up :(
Kerilli that sums it up so right and thinking about it now its what my trainer has said too as the difference in him is quite clear when I have a lesson.
Lisa, oh dear, trouble is our SJ canter is sooooo much better than our flatwork canter, take away the jumps and it degenerates :p Know its probably me as I try too hard flat but when jumping concentrate on the jumps not necessarily the canter :eek:
Thanks Kat trainer is very good, and Pidge is so much better at actually listening to me going into a fence so we are getting there slowly.
Just to show the difference, this is from Rod BE90
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and this is from Eland Eventer trial 80cm
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Have you ever tried keeping a canter round a course of jumps that are just poles on the ground? Making sure you keep the exact same rhythm the whole way around. From the photos (and those I've seen before) it looks like you might not be hitting a consistent take off spot rather than a specific problem with him picking his legs up. The first one you put up above he appears to have got in too deep so has to go up more vertically, whereas in the second you're too far off for another stride but quite close enough for the perfect stride so he's having to stretch and hence not tucking his legs up.
 
it may be that you ride much better at the bigger fences too, that you ride with more gumption and positivity because the fences impress you a bit more.
fwiw I had a mare who was ridiculous at smaller fences, especially xc, she could never have been downgraded, she mucked around and ignored me and took terrible liberties if I gave her an inch. on a bigger track she became totally focussed and rideable, she was like a different horse, she'd back off and was much easier to ride, whereas the smaller fences didn't back her off at all so she's try to tank into them, and/or fling herself at them from any old place.
I'd try a 1m course and see how rideable he is, just remember to get your legs on and tell him you really want him to do it!
 
sorry MB realised he took a long one to the 80cm photo so swapped it for a normal one.
No not tried that one so will have to have a play. I'm lucky, I think?, in that I concentrate on the canter and the course and leave the rest to him, my job is to tell him which fence to jump. He is pretty good at getting to the fence on the right stride but is not bothered if too far out or too close.
Thanks Kerilli, I think I do ride the bigger fences differently if I'm honest with myself so perhaps its me that's the problem then and not him? I concentrate more and sit up more when they go up. Will see if I can get someone to video a round or two as that may help?
 
If you feel like you're ready to go up a step you should do it! I get the feeling that's what you want people to say!

Sounds like he's just being a bit of a clumsy sod, my horse can be like that, he's much better at SJ if we haven't done anything for ages and he's a bit spooky! TBH if he were mine I would have those boots off!! I know there were solid fences at the Eland one it's gotta make a bit of difference?
 
not really TBH as am quite happy at 3' though not sure about bigger as taken me long time to get to jump 3' :( Would just be nice if he could pick up when jumping 80cm though.
:eek: No boots jumping, do you know how accident prone he is :eek: I'd wrap him in cotton wool if I could :rolleyes::p:D
 
Pidgeon said:
not really TBH as am quite happy at 3' though not sure about bigger as taken me long time to get to jump 3' :( Would just be nice if he could pick up when jumping 80cm though.
:eek: No boots jumping, do you know how accident prone he is :eek: I'd wrap him in cotton wool if I could :rolleyes::p:D
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Yes but 80cm is not 3' is it! ;) Is he really?? I didn't think he would be, big strapping lad he is! Cotton wool? Maybe hedge hog skins (a la Jilly Cooper) would be more appropriate! :P
 
I know :o
Oh you have no idea what a cluts he is he, how do you think my vets can afford such nice cars ;):p now there's an idea.......................... only joking!
 
i would suggest lots of grid work, really make him think, with bounces, one strides 2 strides, built with hairy gorse poles and no boots. you have to make him realise that hitting them, or brushing them is not good!!! does he hit the xc fences? no he probably has worked out what falls down and what doesnt!!! does he knock them down in front or behind? plenty easy leg stretches you can do with the front legs to make his shoulders more flexible, done daily make a big difference. also make sure you give him enough rein over a fence so he can actually stretch and use his back properly. Good luck he looks a good type and yes he may well be ready to raise the game! a few water trays/spooky things under smaller jumps should encourage him to jump cleanly as well.
 
Hi - have read all the related posts to the above - could it be that he just needs a total rest from everything for a while - say a month or two? - so he can re-charge his batteries - he seems to have been competing or training all year and most eventers get turned out at the end of the season.
 
I'd sort of go along with a mixture of what people have been saying, bit like PapaFrita :) Having followed your posts for a good while, but never actually seen you live, take this advice with caution but...

You know perfectly well you are capable of the 90cm tracks, easily. Therefore when you compete, this is the height I would stick to. Smaller fences really are mini to Pidge, who looks quite athletic and as you say is more than capable of being tidy in front. I think you are right in saying he just isn't bothering over the smaller tracks. I wouldn't try to go bigger than this for the mo till it feels really really easy, almost boring. The great thing about that size is it really doesn't matter how accurate or otherwise you are, you can't really miss (provided you keep a good, forward rhythm) so you can concentrate on everything else and have a good time :) If you get into the odd jump-off at 95cm all the better :) I think if you push yourself to go up to, say, 1m you will start to feel the pressure to find the right take-off spot and that can ruin everything, and your confidence quickest of all ;)

HOWEVER, I also have some sympathy with those who say he must also learn to concentrate over smaller fences and do whatever he is asked to do. Polework, grids and small fences all play an important part in training all the way up the ladder. I think the point is that to make him listen, the exercises using these need to be interesting and challenging to both of you, which cruising round some easy peasy 80cm SJ class patently isn't! I bet both Kat's trainer and Juno would be able to construct fiendish exercises at 75cm and below which would get him thinking and trying, but that's a different thing altogether, while Advanced event horses undoubtedly do polework and athletic exercises over small fences, if you tried taking most of them round a 2' SJ class at the local show they would either tank off or make no shape at all over the fences or both. So my personal opinion is that you should stick to the slightly bigger classes when competing, but combine this with exciting fun exercises over smaller stuff at home. So, like I said, I agree with some points on both sides. Hope that helps a bit :)
 
TableDancer said:
I think the point is that to make him listen, the exercises using these need to be interesting and challenging to both of you, which cruising round some easy peasy 80cm SJ class patently isn't! I bet both Kat's trainer and Juno would be able to construct fiendish exercises at 75cm and below which would get him thinking and trying, but that's a different thing altogether, while Advanced event horses undoubtedly do polework and athletic exercises over small fences, if you tried taking most of them round a 2' SJ class at the local show they would either tank off or make no shape at all over the fences or both. So my personal opinion is that you should stick to the slightly bigger classes when competing, but combine this with exciting fun exercises over smaller stuff at home. So, like I said, I agree with some points on both sides. Hope that helps a bit :)
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Nail and head ;) Far better constructed and explained than I could manage :p :D
 
I have the same problem with my horse, when i do 90cm/1m he just cant be bothered to pick up and even gets to the point where he will just stop jumping, which he has never done before! The thing is though, if you just keep cranking up the fences when he gets bored, you will just keep going bigger and bigger and end up scaring both of yourselves and you will both lose confidence in each other especially, if you havent got good at the technical bits!
I know how you feel though, its so frustrating!
x
 
What I found with one of my youngsters, was that it was actually the holding into the fences that was making her knock them, as she'd resist just a tiny bit on the way in, and then not pick her legs up. Have changed the way I ride her, and leave the fences up now - I get for a nice canter round corners etc, then within a reasonable distance of the approach, leave her to it. She actually jumps slower and more relaxed, makes her own decisions and leaves them up. This method is a little scary at 2ft as she flies round, but at 80cm+ she sits up more, and all I have to do is aim, keep riding forward, collect on landing, set her up and leave her to it. Very different to how I ride my TB, and this approach wouldn't work for her at all - but they're very different horses.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone, all advice much appreciated :D
I'm a bad mum as he never really gets a holiday but then he has such a variety of work I personally don't think he needs one :rolleyes:
Tabledancer, that makes perfect sense to me :) We have tried all sorts of scary fences when schooling which he doesn't even bat an eyelid at.
Lots of things to have a think about and play so thanks everyone :D
 
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