SJers, please change my opinion of you

I know i have the same opinion but from first hand experience. Not so much with an amteur 'doing it themselves' but yards that produce a lot of horses.

Although... what gadgets?

ETA: i guess it has a martingale on, but personally i wouldn't consider it the worst crime in the world. Although what are the chances that the draw reins came off just before this photo? :p
 
Can't see any gadgets - although the pic is small and the horse is dark so it's difficult to see.

I can see a snaffle, cavesson and running martingale?

As they are selling as an SJer I would like to see a jumping pic.

Agree that he is very overbent particularly in the pic where he is facing the left.
 
Girlracer said:
Although... what gadgets?
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There's something hanging off its reins, presume running martingale, which I class as a "gadget" when it is clearly unnecessary (and on a horse with its head on its chest I'd call it that).

I have been to SJ comps and amazed that the horses jump what they do with such incorrect muscle. What might they do if they worked correctly, I wonder? Also been to an SJ yard and seen lots of people schooling, lunging beforehand in tight draw reins, pointed up spurs, shockingly short stirrups for flatwork and big bits everywhere. I'm not sure I'm liking the look or the ethos. Hoping to be corrected here.
 
Tell me do you assume all ex-racers are nutjobs, all male dressage riders are gay and any other stupid stereotypes?????
 
skewby said:
This sums up my current point of view:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas...10&pg=1&si=CAT*1**0&sr=h&cr=1&kwe=horses&cc=1

It's not black, it's got gadgets on, armchair rider, distressingly overbent and top whack.

Thoughts?
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I wouldn't class a running martingale as a real gadget or training aid, and certainly not a concern - it won't do anything unless the horse throws its head in the air.

I wouldn't say that it is distressingly overbent at all - its a bit overbent in one photo, but I don't consider that an issue for a young horse that doesn't have a consistent head carriage yet.

I think the rider looks good - don't get the issue? Perfectly acceptable position for a jumping saddle, looks relaxed, balanced, soft in the hand....

Oh, and I don't think 7k is ridiculous money at all for a well bred young stallion that according to them is showing potential.

So actually, I don't understand what your problem is :rolleyes:
 
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There are crap riders/trainers in all areas of equestrianism, not just showjumping, every sport has its bad apples but that doesn't mean everyone who does it are the same.

I work for a professional showjumper/producer/trainer in France. She is an extremely good flatwork rider and all her horses are very well-schooled - her senior horses can all perform a good Medium dressage test, and her youngsters are balanced and capable of working and carrying themselves correctly. NONE of the horses are ridden in martingales or draw reins, her top horse competes in a hackamore and all the others are ridden in snaffles. Their exercise mainly consists of hacking out (usually 3 to 5 days a week depending on the competition schedule) and flatwork schooling, plus regular sessions on the treadmill and lunging or looseschooling once a week. As for jumping, the senior horses are ONLY jumped at home if a problem arose at their latest competition, and the youngsters are only jump-schooled once a week and only if they have a competition coming that weekend.

When we're out at competitions we do see poorly-schooled, undermuscled horses subjected to crap riding whilst strapped down with draw reins and other gadgets... of course you are going to have some people like that, it's kind of a given! - however, these are very much in the minority and are vastly outnumbered by the riders like my boss who are kind, skilful riders with well-trained, well-mannered, well looked-after horses. I think it's a shame that people tend to remember the bad examples more than the good ones, and label an entire sport on the basis of those bad examples.
 
I agree with xspiralx (can't quote on phone!). I don't quite get why they'd use a photo of the horse overbent in an advert, and would like to see a jumping photo, but otherwise - don't see a problem?
 
amage said:
Tell me do you assume all ex-racers are nutjobs, all male dressage riders are gay and any other stupid stereotypes?????
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My thoughts exactly, *yawn* I do ride in my JUMPING saddle with short stirrups on the flat, we are show jumpers not flipping dressage riders, but I don't wear pointed spurs, draw reins bla bla bla. I hardly think the horse is "distressingly overbent" or particularly expensive. Clearly the OP is used to producing sj for top level competition, next time I have a lesson I will ask the pro who trains me why his horses are so incorrectly muscled & badly schooled, must be to be jumping 1.50m tracks obviously .....
 
I don't normally 'have a go' on here but what a patronising and sweeping statement for you to make;

'SJers, please change my opinion of you'

I have been invloved in BSJA all my life and quiet frankly I couldn't give a flying ****** what you think of me or anyone else you know nothing about in our sport.

However, when you start jumping bigger than a one foot log on your coloured cob then perhaps someone who cares will listen to you.

By the way, Rikki Gredley (the dealer in the photo) has not got the best of reputations admitted but compared to your riding in your siggy he's Robert Smith.

So howz that for a put down, now crawl back under your stone you silly, silly person :-(
 
I think someone wanted to start some controversy today :rolleyes:

I cant see gadgets, I can see an over bent horse but its not reeled in, just looks like its trying to avoid working correctly and getting away with it ;)

*breaking out the popcorn and wine* ;)
 
wonkey_donkey said:
I don't normally 'have a go' on here but what a patronising and sweeping statement for you to make;

'SJers, please change my opinion of you'
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A sweeping statement would be one such as, "I think all SJers are a nightmare and know nothing about getting the best out of their horses".

By contrast, "SJers, please change my opinion of you" is an invitation for those who know and enjoy the sport to offer me a different perspective.

wonkey_donkey said:
I have been invloved in BSJA all my life and quiet frankly I couldn't give a flying ****** what you think of me or anyone else you know nothing about in our sport.
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I don't think anything about you. I'm offering my personal experiences of the discipline and asking to be corrected, with specific reference to this advert which I find almost distressing for the reasons I have listed above. I'm interested to know whether SJers find this prospect attractive, or do they see the same as I do? As in, I stand to be readily corrected.

wonkey_donkey said:
However, when you start jumping bigger than a one foot log on your coloured cob then perhaps someone who cares will listen to you.
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Nasty and unnecessary.

wonkey_donkey said:
By the way, Rikki Gredley (the dealer in the photo) has not got the best of reputations admitted but compared to your riding in your siggy he's Robert Smith.
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Could you offer some more specific criticism as to what's wrong with my riding? I am always up for pointers.

wonkey_donkey said:
So howz that for a put down, now crawl back under your stone you silly, silly person :-(
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Gosh.
 
NiknKia said:
I think someone wanted to start some controversy today :rolleyes:
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Or maybe, perhaps, let's get really off-the-wall and radical here, it was a genuine question? Not every poster on this forum is out for attention. Some of us actually think about equestrianism and have questions about it as a result.
 
joosie said:
There are crap riders/trainers in all areas of equestrianism, not just showjumping, every sport has its bad apples but that doesn't mean everyone who does it are the same.

I work for a professional showjumper/producer/trainer in France. She is an extremely good flatwork rider and all her horses are very well-schooled - her senior horses can all perform a good Medium dressage test, and her youngsters are balanced and capable of working and carrying themselves correctly. NONE of the horses are ridden in martingales or draw reins, her top horse competes in a hackamore and all the others are ridden in snaffles. Their exercise mainly consists of hacking out (usually 3 to 5 days a week depending on the competition schedule) and flatwork schooling, plus regular sessions on the treadmill and lunging or looseschooling once a week. As for jumping, the senior horses are ONLY jumped at home if a problem arose at their latest competition, and the youngsters are only jump-schooled once a week and only if they have a competition coming that weekend.

When we're out at competitions we do see poorly-schooled, undermuscled horses subjected to crap riding whilst strapped down with draw reins and other gadgets... of course you are going to have some people like that, it's kind of a given! - however, these are very much in the minority and are vastly outnumbered by the riders like my boss who are kind, skilful riders with well-trained, well-mannered, well looked-after horses. I think it's a shame that people tend to remember the bad examples more than the good ones, and label an entire sport on the basis of those bad examples.
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Brilliant, thank you for a sensible and non-emotive reply!
 
I do SJ and personally i don't think a martingale is an un necessary gadget as its there when you need it and in a sport like show jumping where you require a lot of precision, if you think your horse might just throw its head up then why not have the martingale if you need it? Because if you don't put it on and your horse decides that its a good time to throw its head at you so you can't see where you're going and you're in a middle of a 1.20m course then you'd wish you put it on and IMO its not worth the risk of potentialy putting your horse and yourself at risk just because you dont believe in gadgets.

I once went to a show and a woman kept looking at my horse for some reason, then i found out its because she thought its weird that the horse is wearing over reach boots, tendon and fetlock boots. I'm sorry, how is that weird? I simply want to protect my horses legs from injury if we get it wrong or get overexcited.

I don't think it's good to have stereotypes , if a non horsey person called you a snob non of us like it, whatever our discipline :)
 
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kizzywiz said:
My thoughts exactly, *yawn* I do ride in my JUMPING saddle with short stirrups on the flat, we are show jumpers not flipping dressage riders, but I don't wear pointed spurs, draw reins bla bla bla. I hardly think the horse is "distressingly overbent" or particularly expensive. Clearly the OP is used to producing sj for top level competition, next time I have a lesson I will ask the pro who trains me why his horses are so incorrectly muscled & badly schooled, must be to be jumping 1.50m tracks obviously .....
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So are you saying, correct flatwork has no place in a showjump horse's training?

As for "clearly", did I say that? No. Read the post. I am asking those who compete in it, to explain to me a discipline of which I have little knowledge, and generally even less interest. So odd how people on this forum take things so personally.
 
skewby said:
By contrast, "SJers, please change my opinion of you" is an invitation for those who know and enjoy the sport to offer me a different perspective.
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The problem with this sort of statement is that it kind of gives the impression you are actually NOT willing to change your opinion. Inviting someone to "change your opinion of them" comes across as a sort of direct challenge and will immediately get people's backs up, whether that was your intention or not.
 
joosie said:
The problem with this sort of statement is that it kind of gives the impression you are actually NOT willing to change your opinion. Inviting someone to "change your opinion of them" comes across as a sort of direct challenge and will immediately get people's backs up, whether that was your intention or not.
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I disagree.
 
skewby said:
Or maybe, perhaps, let's get really off-the-wall and radical here, it was a genuine question? Not every poster on this forum is out for attention. Some of us actually think about equestrianism and have questions about it as a result.
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Well if it was it wasnt very well thought out for someone who has put a lot of thought into things ;)

It was blatantly insulting and TBF it could have been an advert for a riding horse not just a showjumper. I am not even a showjumper and I felt angered by the blatant stereotyping you have going on.
 
joosie said:
That's nice... care to say why? I'm sure you've noticed that you have already "upset" a few people. Surely you must understand why your comments have offended people?
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Because they are ready to be/feel offended? As above, please use the quote facility to show me exactly where and how I have tried to offend.
 
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