SJers, please change my opinion of you

skewby said:
So are you saying, correct flatwork has no place in a showjump horse's training?

As for "clearly", did I say that? No. Read the post. I am asking those who compete in it, to explain to me a discipline of which I have little knowledge, and generally even less interest. So odd how people on this forum take things so personally.
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Of course correct flatwork is necessary for show jumping, the horses need to be supple, balanced & engaged as the sport is about precision & control, my point was that you don't need to have long stirrups to do it, it would affect my balance if I rode with very long stirrups in my jumping saddle as the saddle is designed to be ridden in with shorter stirrups, I don't flatwork in my jumping length stirrups but not as long as in a dressage saddle.

Regarding your post about did I think this was a good way for a 4 year old to go, not ideal because he is behind the bridle & needs to go forward into the contact more, my 6 year old still hides behind the bridle sometimes as an evasion to working properly rather than because she has had her head pulled in with draw reins.

Your OP did come across as slating all show jumpers TBH.
 
skewby said:
explain to me a discipline of which I have little knowledge, and generally even less interest.
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And there's another reason people will question your motives! If you have such little interest in showjumping, how is one supposed to believe you are geniunely asking to have your opinions changed?
 
kizzywiz said:
Of course correct flatwork is necessary for show jumping, the horses need to be supple, balanced & engaged as the sport is about precision & control, my point was that you don't need to have long stirrups to do it, it would affect my balance if I rode with very long stirrups in my jumping saddle as the saddle is designed to be ridden in with shorter stirrups, I don't flatwork in my jumping length stirrups but not as long as in a dressage saddle.

Regarding your post about did I think this was a good way for a 4 year old to go, not ideal because he is behind the bridle & needs to go forward into the contact more, my 6 year old still hides behind the bridle sometimes as an evasion to working properly rather than because she has had her head pulled in with draw reins.

Your OP did come across as slating all show jumpers TBH.
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This is the kind of response I was after! I have no idea why my OP should come across that way to you, as I've said before, please read it again. I'm simply asking about a discipline of which I know very little and have earned a negative impression, rightly or wrongly.

However as seems to be the trend with this forum the sensible replies such as this are few and far between, as posters seem to far rather a fight. Lesson learned again!
 
skewby said:
A sweeping statement would be one such as, "I think all SJers are a nightmare and know nothing about getting the best out of their horses".
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Actually, it was a sweeping statement. If you didn't mean all SJers, then you should have said "change my opinion of some of you." You just said "of you" - therefore meaning "all of you."

If you didn't mean that - then don't say it.


So are you saying, correct flatwork has no place in a showjump horse's training?
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Long stirrups are not necessary in order to ride a horse correctly on the flat.
 
xspiralx said:
Actually, it was a sweeping statement. If you didn't mean all SJers, then you should have said "change my opinion of some of you." You just said "of you" - therefore meaning "all of you."
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Semantics. Personally, I enjoy hunting. If someone posted on here their impressions of those who hunt, and to date it had been negative, I would be the first in to try and give my experience and a balanced view. I would in no way take it personally. There are many who hunt and I don't personally like the way in which they do it. I'd be happy to post my point of view, and how I do it, to be agreed with or otherwise. Which was, after all, my point. If posters on here cannot appreciate the difference between a declaration of "I believe all SJers are fools and here is why" and "here is an SJ advert which reinforces my experience to date, please comment" then there's little I can do about that.
 
You may look at the pictures in the advert and find it distressing, but I look at it and see a young horse who is behind the bridle. As it goes, I look at your signature Skewby and see a very overweight horse - something I find quite distressing. Do I start a thread on it? No, I don't think I will. It is a snapshot in time so maybe it was just for a moment - how do we know? Maybe a poor choice of photo, but there are vewry few adverts that give us the perfect pictures. I hate it when people bring up adverts like this - what if the onwer/rider came on and saw this? I'd be horrified if I were them and saw my horse being slated like this - I'd find it very upsetting.
 
The minority ruin it for the majority.

I consider myself a show jumper (mainly because I'm even krapper at everything else) and at shows I would say 2 out of 10 horses have unnecessary gadgets and ridden very poorly but the rest are going quite nicely.

I think flatwork is a huge part of show jumping and luckily the pros that I have had anything to do with only do flatwork at home unless they have a problem and as a result their horses jump beautifully.
 
Honestly......
This is clearly a training issue, but that doesn't mean all SJers are like that :rolleyes:
You seem to have something against SJers in general, care to explain?
 
I have always been taught that the martingale only comes into play if the horse throws it's head up. On a young horse this is a possibility and being prepared is a good idea. All my youngsters are ridden in a martingale until they are a little more experienced. Further every horse I have broken or schooled from green has dropped behind the bit to avoid working until it learns not to. I may not be a pro but I have done a good few and all have gone on to have useful careers at riding club level or higher. All have dropped behind in lazyness and learnt not to. My jumping pony does a fantastic dressage test and far exceeds many of the dressage trained horses we come across. As excited as she gets jumping this is essential in order that I retain control as well as muscle tone. Oh and as she tends to throw bunny hops of varying heights when excited I always jump in a martingale. Waiting to put one on till I know for sure I need it is to late. As for the boots and other gadgets I don't have too many overreach or tendon injuries to pay the vet to fix. Yes the horse is expensive and a little behind the bit but I don't know about his breeding he may be worth it and he is young I see nothing strange in the way he is working, or trying not to! Sorry for lack of line breaks: phone.
 
skewby said:
Semantics. Personally, I enjoy hunting. If someone posted on here their impressions of those who hunt, and to date it had been negative, I would be the first in to try and give my experience and a balanced view. I would in no way take it personally. There are many who hunt and I don't personally like the way in which they do it. I'd be happy to post my point of view, and how I do it, to be agreed with or otherwise. Which was, after all, my point. If posters on here cannot appreciate the difference between a declaration of "I believe all SJers are fools and here is why" and "here is an SJ advert which reinforces my experience to date, please comment" then there's little I can do about that.
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There are plenty of things you can do about it - you can change the language you use so that it does not come across as offensive and accusatory. If you write something, and the majority of people 'misinterpret' your meaning - then accept that it's a problem with the way you've written it, and change it.
 
First post on this forum - not even introduced myself yet :D

Right, I do not think all showjumpers are the stereotypes they are made out to be, e.g constantly use draw reins etc but I do think the horse in the advert is particularly overbent. I wouldn't go as far to say they were "distressingly overbent" but they definately are behind the bridle, which is obviously not a big issue for a four year old. (mine is exactly the same.)

However I do think the personal attacks on skewbys' horse are unnessacary (sp?). At the end of the day if there is no need for personal statements about people's horses, and their activities. We are all different, as are our horses. Without knowing the owner and horse in question you have no idea about any circumstances.

I personally think that if something annoys you, either don't reply or reply in a manner which doesn't come accross as childish. If skewby's post offended you, was it really the best idea to respond with the sole aim of offending her/him?

Just my thoughts... :)
 
skewby said:
This sums up my current point of view:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas...10&pg=1&si=CAT*1**0&sr=h&cr=1&kwe=horses&cc=1

It's not black, it's got gadgets on, armchair rider, distressingly overbent and top whack.

Thoughts?
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So essentially your opinion of SJers is sumarised by ONE photograph. Is that the extent of your 'research'? If it is, then you should do some more, and if it isn't, is your intention just to irritate every other SJer who DOESN'T ride like that?
Perhaps I should define my understanding of all skewbald riders by the photos in your signature... sensible? No. An accurate representation...? No, but then I'm aware that not all riders are equal.
 
Firstly, I think if you write a post which has clearly offended a great deal of people you should look at yourself rather than pointing the finger at others for not getting what you meant or your tone.
Secondly, if I'm right your horse is wearing more gadgets than the horse in the picture, a martingale only comes into play when the head is thrown but your cob appears to be in a Pelham.
Thirdly, I show jump and can hand on heart say from the small amount of pictures you have that my horses are better muscled, have a better way of going and wear less gadgets than yours.
My advice to you, enjoy your horse and allow others to enjoy theirs. You don't really need to understand showjumpers, concentrate on your riding and your horses schooling and when that's perfect you can worry about others.
 
Check my album - there's my grey boy. 7 year old stallion jumping in a snaffle. He over bends when he's showing off though. But I never hold him like that. He's extremely light.
 
skewby said:
shockingly short stirrups for flatwork
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Sorry if I missed something as only read the first page so far. What's wrong with riding with short stirrups? I used to work for a very good (and very sympathetic SJ'r) who always rode at jumping length. I believe it's quite common to do so. So what???? Does the Horse care?
 
I am giggling away here!

I probably have no right to comment here being as

1. I am no "show jumper"
2. I haven't read the whole thread.
3. I have drank too much pink wine,
4. I am no show jumper.

However the idea that "show jumpers" should have to leap in and defend their sport based on one persons opinion of one ad with 2 pictures is, to be frank laughable. Ridiculous.
 
Ok, I am not a sj'er in the sense that it isnt the only thing I do with my horses....

But blooming heck what a narrow minded and uneducated view!

First off the armchair riding comment - the guy hardly looks heavy or unbalanced in his seat - he is riding shorter in a jumping saddle. Will make no real difference to the horse.

Gadgets?! what gadgets? A running martingale? An item of tack which will not come into effect until the extreme end of the scale where its needed - also doubles up as a very handy neck strap on a youngster.

As for overbent - yes he is but its hardly in a distressing manner. You can tell from just looking at the rider he isnt exactly hauling on the horses mouth or anything like that. Its more a training issue which will come with time on a young horse!

And expensive? For a well bred, nice looking horse with what sounds like some potential about him then no, I dont think he is that expensive really?
 
One said:
However I do think the personal attacks on skewbys' horse are unnessacary (sp?). At the end of the day if there is no need for personal statements about people's horses, and their activities. We are all different, as are our horses. Without knowing the owner and horse in question you have no idea about any circumstances.
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I think you're absolutely right - however this line of thought applies in the first case to the OP.

If the owners of this horse used the forum, and found somebody slagging off their pride and joy and claiming it represented all that was wrong with SJ, then they'd probably be pretty offended.

I think the comments about skewby's horse are probably just trying to make this point.
 
xspiralx said:
I think you're absolutely right - however this line of thought applies in the first case to the OP.

If the owners of this horse used the forum, and found somebody slagging off their pride and joy and claiming it represented all that was wrong with SJ, then they'd probably be pretty offended.

I think the comments about skewby's horse are probably just trying to make this point.
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Thats what I was trying to get accross, though it did seem I was just meaning skewbys horse. I was meaning personal comments about any one's horse are unnessacary unless in the form of constructive criticsm. Just my opinion, as I'd hate it if anyone called any of my lot, even though I'd be the first to admit they're far from perfect :D
 
Jenni_ said:
And martingales are like seatbelts - only there when you need em. I'm rather annoyed by your uneducated stereotyping post to be honest
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Yes finaly some sense :D i am probably not qualified to be called a sjer but i do go over jumps sometimes and have done a bit of BS :o so I will comment :p

Showjumpers seem to get allot of stick on here and it seems a bit unfair, the horse is overbent in the pic but its a young green and a pic is just a moment in time.

What confuses me is that would you be as offended if the picture was of a novice unbalanced rider on a horse that was going incorrectly? or would it be seen as unfair that you were pulling appart a horse and rider combo that you have only ever seen one pic of.... :rolleyes:

Anyway in all horse sport there are good and bad examples but dont lump all showjumpers together as a few of us have lessons and try to ride and school to the best of our ability as that is how classes are won be it at BN or in a grand prix. And watch one of the greats of sj e.g. John Whitaker or Tim Stockdale ride and the op original comment will seem a little daft.

x




Anyway
 
I think the assumption is being made that it is only showjumpers that use gadgets, ride badly, and have overbent horses.

Seriously, there are some dressage riders that do all of the above, some showing folk that do all of the above, some hunting folk that do all of the above, some hacking folk that do all of the above......... shall I go on? :D

You can't generalise and lump all SJ'ers under the same umbrella, I'm sure that there is some bad horsemanship in SJ, same as any other discipline, there is also probably some quite good horsemanship too.

As for the horse in the pic he at least had a snaffle mouth, rider didn't look to be too heavy on the reins and the horse looked to be moving forwards nicely, albeit overbent. True he may have just had draw reins removed, but that isn't exclusive to sJ'ers. Being described black if he isn't wouldn't bother me, a good horse is a good horse irrespective of colour.

As for price, a horse is only worth what somebody is prepared to pay at the end of the day.
 
touchstone said:
I think the assumption is being made that it is only showjumpers that use gadgets, ride badly, and have overbent horses.

Seriously, there are some dressage riders that do all of the above, some showing folk that do all of the above, some hunting folk that do all of the above, some hacking folk that do all of the above......... shall I go on? :D

You can't generalise and lump all SJ'ers under the same umbrella, I'm sure that there is some bad horsemanship in SJ, same as any other discipline, there is also probably some quite good horsemanship too.

As for the horse in the pic he at least had a snaffle mouth, rider didn't look to be too heavy on the reins and the horse looked to be moving forwards nicely, albeit overbent. True he may have just had draw reins removed, but that isn't exclusive to sJ'ers. Being described black if he isn't wouldn't bother me, a good horse is a good horse irrespective of colour.

As for price, a horse is only worth what somebody is prepared to pay at the end of the day.
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Totally agree :)
 
pigsmight:) said:
And watch one of the greats of sj e.g. John Whitaker or Tim Stockdale ride and the op original comment will seem a little daft.
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Very good point - watching JW ride is like watching art. The man's a genius. :)
 
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