SJers, please change my opinion of you

minigal said:
I am giggling away here!

I probably have no right to comment here being as

1. I am no "show jumper"
2. I haven't read the whole thread.
3. I have drank too much pink wine,
4. I am no show jumper.

However the idea that "show jumpers" should have to leap in and defend their sport based on one persons opinion of one ad with 2 pictures is, to be frank laughable. Ridiculous.
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This.
Except the bit about the wine.

It is a well bred horse in the ad that might one day make a competent showjumper. On a personal level the idea of it contesting 4 yo classes fills me with misgivings but I wouldn't want to see any 4 yo in any discipline that is still growing being pushed to that level. Is it expensive? Well yes, just broken and no idea of how it might perform in the future, that is a lot of money. Is it behind the bridle? Yup, and I wouldn't have chosen that picture to sell the horse.

Is it representative of all showjumpers? No. there are good ones and not so good ones and my experience is that there may be more 'not so good ones' in this particular discipline, however you can't judge an entire sport by one example.
 
god! this sint as bad as what i have seen. i saw a 4 year old with the tightest draw reins you could ever have, a rope noseband, a bit made from whatever (they make them theirselfs) and at first you think

oh he's working from his back well

you look closer

GOD he looks in SUCH pain.

bearing in mind hes a growing 4y/o! all his joints will be messed up. this isnt harsh for thhose people though - i have seen worse with their older ones. i once saw one had a curb chain IN ITS MOUTH poor thing! they had made that one too!

PEOPLE these days - they just want to win! - and make money
 
i've just read the end of the thread now. ive had an inside look into what some top riders do (including some that you have named) rapping electic etc...
 
skewby said:
There's something hanging off its reins, presume running martingale, which I class as a "gadget" when it is clearly unnecessary (and on a horse with its head on its chest I'd call it that).

I have been to SJ comps and amazed that the horses jump what they do with such incorrect muscle. What might they do if they worked correctly, I wonder? Also been to an SJ yard and seen lots of people schooling, lunging beforehand in tight draw reins, pointed up spurs, shockingly short stirrups for flatwork and big bits everywhere. I'm not sure I'm liking the look or the ethos. Hoping to be corrected here.
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I think you have to remember with showjumping that it isn't style over substance. Its still basically about getting the horse to go forwards properly, remain balanced and move off the leg, and take a correct length of canter stride and shorten and lengthen on demand. Its not a dressage or showing class which is judged on how nice a picture you make.

Speaking for myself, I'm not tall enough to be a perfect rider and my horse is very big but has a short neck so tends to unbalance himself by running onto his forehand. Yet we have worked out a way of minimising each other's shortcomings. Since he is quite an old horse, I don't do loads of flatwork on him as I don't want to stiffen him up, I concentrate on doing the basics well and I hack him a lot too. I hope he will do foxhunter next year. I ride him in a non-metal nathe bit but I use a very loose standing martingale when jumping (shock horror), because he currently still needs it to stop him throwing his head up and evading the contact. This gets better the more I ride him. He absolutely loves jumping and is very careful, so I am not going to spend ages until I get him working in a perfect outline before I do anything with him. In many ways, you can look upon the jumps as being good schooling aids and helping you move on to the next level.

He has been owned all his life by riding club level dressage riders who had him going all wrong and were scared of him when he used his full canter stride, and tried to pull him into what I call the "nose to the ground" lower level dressage style that seems so prevalent now, with the hind legs trailing. He was also bored out of his mind by continual flatwork.

As for the horse in the advert, there are always people in any discipline who will pay for an unproven young horse presented the right way. I am guessing if it was much good it would be much more than £7000...(which is hardly top whack for a young warmblood stallion).

I am personally always amazed by the horses doing BE90 and BE100 which are advertised for massive prices. And another of my bugbears is people who can only ride perfectly schooled, "nose to the ground" types, but who don't know what to do when put on a big forward going horse or how to get the best out of them without taking away the essence of the horse and turning it into a dullard.
 
It's not just SJ which has overbent horses! Dressage is exactly the same - hence the uproar over rollkur. I went to a showing yard a few years ago and found horses in their stables with bridles and rollers on with very tight side reins on. I asked how long they left them like that and was told - "oh just a few hours" - I was horrified. Every discipline has it's bad trainers/dealers, but for every bad one, hopefully there are two good ones.
 
skewby said:
I'm offering my personal experiences of the discipline and asking to be corrected, with specific reference to this advert which I find almost distressing for the reasons I have listed above. I'm interested to know whether SJers find this prospect attractive, or do they see the same as I do? As in, I stand to be readily corrected.
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I'm not saying I'm an expert, but if you want some practical criticism based on the photos in your signature, I would make a guess that your horse has a very short canter stride and struggles to get a correct stride, particularly over oxers. You would probably have to ride him very forwards and hope to get the correct stride every time if you jumped anything over British Novice, as it would be difficult to shorten and lengthen a horse like this over related distances and he would probably lose impulsion. In your last photo he looks as though he has got the stride wrong and then jumped anyway, but at least he has tucked up his forelegs. In the other jump photo, he is very flat, which again comes down to his canter...

tbh though I'm puzzled as to where you see these things. Do you go to your local county show and watch the big classes? As for short stirrups, if you can ride in short stirrups, you will have very good balance. You have short stirrups to help you flex at the waist and slide your bottom along the saddle. Is the alternative wedging yourself into a dressage saddle?
 
Skewby, I have met Rikki Gradley and been to his yard. I don't know him, I went to look at a horse with a friend who does. However, all his horses were in immaculate condition, all seemed very chilled out happy 'people' (including several young stallions he had on the yard) and he rode very nicely indeed. The youngster we saw loose jumped and schooled as sweetly as you could wish a horse to. I'm not sure what your problem is with this particular ad?

The ad says the horse is 'nearly black' not black. ie very dark brown. It clearly is dark brown

It is wearing a martingale. It's a young stallion. I'd want a blooming martingale on it too for a grab handle frankly.

It is a little inconsistent in it's head carriage. It's four! What on earth do you think four year olds should go like. It doesn't look like it's head has been yanked in, my youngster still comes back behind the bit at six because he finds it hard to hold himself correctly all the time. Hardly the end of the world.
 
I'm not convinced you've actually read the advert either
Although it says 'black' next to 'colour' in the main written part of the article it specifies 'nearly black'. It also says 'pics dont do him justice'.

Maybe read the next advert you want to comment on before you do so.
 
minigal said:
I am giggling away here!

I probably have no right to comment here being as

1. I am no "show jumper"
2. I haven't read the whole thread.
3. I have drank too much pink wine,
4. I am no show jumper.

However the idea that "show jumpers" should have to leap in and defend their sport based on one persons opinion of one ad with 2 pictures is, to be frank laughable. Ridiculous.
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Sorry to change the subject.....too much pink wine.....in the middle of the day:eek:!!! GOOD ON U!!!!! hehehe :D
 
skewby said:
Honestly? Do you think that's a fine way for a 4yo to be progressing?
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A photo is but one moment in time and they can be very deceptive.

Read the ad, the vender does say nearly black so I would guess they were trying to get him noticed- black is more popular then dark brown after all ;)
7k for a well bred 4yo is not that much when you are talking sports horses, I think it was Will Funnel who said it costs about 20k to get the Billy youngsters from conception to 4 or 5 if it's done right,add to that the horse could go on to win a lot and the r=price becomes more real.

From the you tube vid,the rider seems to be nice and quiet and the horse is going nicely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsfgr2r1OBU
 
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