Skin lumps, immune system goes haywire in the Summer

[Rosie Round The Hills]

Hello, I'd be very appreciative of your views on my mare. I'll try to be as brief as possible:-

I bought her February 2009, age 11, and ex-brood-mare. TB x suffolk punch. Came with no history of medical problems, albeit fat and unfit.

Spring 2009 she developed lumps in her skin (see description below) which went away with a course of steroids thus confirming it's an allergic reaction/over-reacting immune system problem.

In 2009 we 'treated' the symptoms with a fairly hefty dose of steroids a fair few times, whilst searching about for the cause - thought it might be the straw bedding, or the other horses food in the air. I put her on various herbal supplements and in Autumn the lumps disappeared so we thought we'd cured it!

In 2010 Spring they came back and we used steroids again, whilst still trying to find the solution - tried fencing off the hedges etc. Autumn came and the lumps went away again.

I took the advantage of winter coming - and the lumps going - to do a few 'trials'. All winter she was bedded on wheat straw, and fed on chopped grass, linseed, peas and speedibeet plus a herbal balancer. She had no lumps all winter.

In 2011 Spring guess what they came back. By this time I am very prepared and for five weeks she has been on wood pellets bed, and fed on only chopped grass, our pasture, and our hay. I am treating the lumps topically with fuciderm (steroid cream) which doesn't make them disappear but does prevent them bothering her too much.

The Lumps they can be pin pricks, they can be 'blobby' lumps, they first appear on her neck then can appear anywhere on her upper body, but their most common areas are:- saddle area, hip 'crease', top of her hind quarters. They do itch her (she loves being itched on them), but don't cause too much distress if I manage them with fuciderm.

Known Causes are barley, maize, psyllium, soya. I'm 99% certain that these are things she reacts to as I was able to trial them this winter.

Things I've eliminated as causes are - our hedges, wheat straw bedding, the hay my yard produces, fly bites.

My current theories (and there have been many of these over the last years!!) are:-

1 - it's something in the pasture that only grows in the warmer weather. A 'herb' that her immune system reacts to. The way to identify this would I think be a pasture analysis and intra-dermal skin testing. I'm not big on this plan because I haven't heard much to convince me that intra-dermal skin testing is very accurate.

2 - she can't cope with the level of protein in the spring and summer grass and it's an 'exaggerated' form of protein lumps. If it is this, then it's the immune system and the digestive system that need sorting - doable perhaps.

3 - the hormonal changes caused by her reproductive cycle is causing it, and it's nothing to do with feed or environment. If it's this, then perhaps it could be resolved through treating the reproductive problem?

Please please - if anyone has any area of expertise, particularly in (2) or (3), I'd be very appreciative of your views. Honestly, I'm at the point where I understand what's going on just as well as my vet who is great but doesn't have the expertise in the right area.

Thank You.

 

[TarrSteps]

I have a horse who is "allergic to life" and has a history of extreme immune responses, although not skin conditions like your mare. We've never been able to completely eradicate his basic sensitivity but he's better on a cereal free diet and currently on Global Herbs ImmunePlus. (He was on a liquid immune supplement before but unfortunately we're not able to get it in the UK.)

If you want to trial the reproductive theory, your best bet is going to be Regumate or an implant. I don't know if a marble would work for a situation like that, but again, it's an option.

As far as exposure, you could try a nasal spray. I know a headshaker who is hugely better on this option. The horse I mentioned above is currently on box rest in a barn and has been significantly better, which pretty much proves and environmental element, although obviously that's not really a long term option!

 

[cptrayes]

Are you sure it's not just the sugars in spring grass?

Do you feed carrots? I have a friend with a horse which comes out in lumps if fed carrots, and again on spring grass. Keeping horses like that in during the day (when the sugars are highest) and not feeding carrots can do the trick.

Did she get any lumps during the frosts last winter???

 

[Rosie Round The Hills]

We've never been able to completely eradicate his basic sensitivity but he's better on a cereal free diet

Yes, Rosie is allergic to Maize and barley so she's also on a cereal-free diet. It worked very well in the winter.

"Are you sure it's not just the sugars in spring grass?"

No, I'm not sure! It may well be the sugar in the spring and summer grass. I'm trialling (as of today) putting her on restricted grazing i.e. out only for a couple of hours while I muck out etc. It will be very interesting to see whether that makes a difference.

Did she get any lumps during the frosts last winter???

No, and she did seem adept at finding the frozen grass under the snow.

currently on Global Herbs ImmunePlus

Oh, and the other thing I forgot to mention is that Rosie is the FUSSIEST eater in the world. If it smells different... she won't eat it. I tried a sample of Global Herbs Probio supplement this week - just a tiny dash in her bowl of grass.... and she wouldn't go near it

If you want to trial the reproductive theory, your best bet is going to be Regumate or an implant. I don't know if a marble would work for a situation like that, but again, it's an option.

I'd love to know if anyone has done any research into this.

As far as exposure, you could try a nasal spray.

Good idea, that's not a suggestion I've had before. Any particular sort anyone use?

 

[criso]

I used to have problems with lumps with mine at my last yard.
We spend ages excluding food as the first vet he saw was convinced that it was food.

When we were getting nowhere he went up to have intradermal skin testing at the vet college and the lumps vanished overnight at which point it being food related was ruled out.

We went ahead and did the tests and found something like 15 different triggers , there were too many for desensitising treatment so just tried to avoid them but they were very common things like various trees/woods, grasses and all sorts of mites.

What they did suggest was moving yards, maybe trying a stay somewhere to check out different areas. I was already planning to move as I wasn't happy at my yard and also wanted to move him out of London.

Anyway moved yards and over a period of time the lumps went, not at once, he would still react to triggers but not as violently each time. After about 3 months he was lumps free.He now has no problem to all sorts of things he couldn't cope with before now his immune system has settled down.

Not hugely helpful in that moving is not always an option but something to bear in mind.

One thing that did help a bit was combining the imunoplus with Global herbs Restore as a general tonic to help support the immune system.

 

[TarrSteps]

As far as exposure, you could try a nasal spray.

Good idea, that's not a suggestion I've had before. Any particular sort anyone use?

There is an equine one now but the headshaker I mentioned uses two sprays of Beconase or equivalent, which is a cortocosteroid. It is targeted to inhaled irritants though, so will obviously not help you much if she's ingesting whatever it is that sets her off.

Annoying about the GH. I will say the horse I have it on has turned up his nose at supplements in the past, even with syrup, apple juice etc. , but we do wet his feed and add a bit of beetpulp, just to be sure.

 

[Delta99]

this sounds very similar to the lumps my boy has, I bought him June 2010 and he got some small lumps over the summer but they went away in the autumn. This year they are back with a vengeance, it started like a cluster of fly bites on the girth but it's now a bald patch and it seems like the small lumps are amalgamating into one bigger one.

Please keep me up to date - like yours, my boy is also a very fussy eater and turns his nose up at anything with a strong taste (won't even eat mints!)

I have been researching the various supplements on the market to improve the immune system but please please please let me know if you find something that works.

 

[SophieLouBee]

I've got a lumpy too. She just reacts to things, she has a patch on her right shoulder of dry scabby pinpricks. She developed them winter just gone, was on pasture mix, beet and chaff. They seemed to get worse when she got hot under her very long mane, so that came off and they have improved, but not gone alltogether, I intend to put her on globalherbs sarcex and the immuneplus, as she has one lump that was diagnosed as possible sarcoid, but without a biopsy, can't tell for sure. However, we have had no growth for over 6 months now, so I'm happy to leave it be (it's tiny, she has fly bites bigger than it)

She basically comes out in hives at grass, feed, trees, flys, heat and various other things, none of which bother her or affect her in anyway apart from being lumpy (she's arabxtb, so I didn't expect much else skin wise!) I don't worry about it, but am looking forward to seeing if the globalherb products have any affect, as her coat is like a mirror, and the lumps ruin her a bit....

You are not alone!

 

[peanut]

I've got a 9 yo with about 8 bumps over her neck and saddle area for the first time ever. She doesn't have any known allergies, she's not a sweet itch sufferer and her diet hasn't changed (chaff, balancer & hay).

She's in otherwise fabulous condition and has never had these lumps in the past. They don't appear to have a head or irritate her in any way, they just look unsightly.

 

[Jesstickle]

another one with a lumpy

Worse in summer and only a patch on his shoulder. No one knows why and they don't seem to overly bother him. He likes them scratched but doesn't go out of his way to rub them. We've sort of given up!