Skinny horse

[Koda]

The irony in my life is great sometimes: I need to decrease my calories but increase my horses!
Her ribs have appeared from under an unclipped coat recently. Her muscle tone is generally good and she's fit and healthy. But I want the ribs to disappear.

I increased her feed by a scoop recently. She now gets
1 scoop 10%
1 scoop beet pulp
1 scoop oats.
I feel like she's still losing weight, only slower now.
Any suggestions? Are there more efficient weight gaining feeds that this? Or is it simply a matter of upping the quantity of the feeds I'm already giving.
She also get lots of hay, indoors with rug everynight, and out to field or paddock with rug every day.
Thanks guys!

 

[Lippyx]

Are you giving her adlib hay/haylage? Add succulents such as carrots etc (be careful though, as these can sometimes hype horses up)
You can get plenty of hard feeds produced especially for weight gain etc.
If you contact any of the good feed suppliers (Dodson & Horrell, Saracen etc etc) they will ask you for her size and work load etc, and give you an ideal hard feed to give her.
They helped me out when I had a skinny TB that cribbed as well!!

 

[eoe]

I would suggest you get a poo sample done for worms at the vets.

Stop feeding oats and feed a conditioning mix with a supplement such as equivite body builder or Baileys outshine which are proven weight gain supplements.

 

[Koda]

I'll look into those, thanks. My local feed places have everything, but the staff don't know much so I kinda have to have a name of what I'm looking for before I go.
I had the same thought as you about the worms so I wormed her last week.

 

[brighteyes]

Her teeth are in order?

 

[TGM]

Is she getting that all in one feed? Or split into two or three?

The calorie count of horse feed is expressed in terms of MJDE/kg - the higher the number, the more calories in it and the more likely it is the horse will gain weight. Most conditioning feeds are at least 12 MJDE/kg - the beet pulp you are feeding is probably about 12.5 MJDE/kg (depends on the brand) and the oats can vary from about 11 MJDE/kg to 14 MJDE/kg. I'm not familiar with the 10% - check out the MJDE/kg of it and see whether it would be better to switch to a higher calorie conditioning feed, such as Baileys Top Line Cubes (13.5 MJDE/kg).

If you are limited to how many times a day you can feed then high oil feeds are useful because they are very dense in calories and are therefore fed in small quantities and you don't risk overloading the stomach. Micronised linseed is 20 MJDE/kg and quite cost effective. If you can't get that then there are commercial oil rich feeds such as Outshine, Triple Top Up and Equijewel that can be used instead.

Personally, I would make a decision whether to go for a conditioning cube or stay with the oats. If you stick with the oats, feed it with beet pulp and add a balancer to provide vit/mins and a prebiotic/probiotic to ensure healthy gut flora which will help her get the most out of the food she eats. You might also find it beneficial to soak the oats in with the beet - I find it softens the grain and you don't get any undigested grain in the droppings.

Alternatively go for a conditioning cube and feed it at the recommended rate which will supply all vit/mins - you can still feed this with the beet pulp. You can feed an oil rich feed alongside both the oat option or the conditioning feed option.

 

[Koda]

I checked with the owner about that. She was done a year ago, but she is not dropping food when she eats and is showing no signs of discomfort with the bit. I will get them done soon anyway, but I don't think that's why she's ribby.
Do I just need to stuff her face? Start feeding twice a day? Increase the once a day feed? or use more efficient weight gaining feeds?

 

[Koda]

Great info, thanks!

 

[TheMule]

Cut out the beet pulp, it's largely firbre. Oats are not the best for conditioning.

I'd be feeding 2 scoops of conditioning mix or cubes three times a day if possible, or twice a day if not.

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
Start feeding twice a day? Increase the once a day feed? or use more efficient weight gaining feeds?

[/ QUOTE ] Definitely start feeding at least twice a day, if not three times a day, and investigate more calorific feeds. Do get her teeth checked as well as this can slow down their consumption of hay or haylage - the more hay/haylage you can get into her the better as this is usually the safest and cheapest way to put weight on. Just because she is not quidding feed doesn't mean her teeth are OK.

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
Cut out the beet pulp, it's largely firbre.

[/ QUOTE ] But fibre is good for horses, and the fibre in beet pulp is highly digestible and a very good source of calories!

 

[Natpillai]

I had a similar problem last year and overcame it by extra rugging, and also I switched feeds. I spoke to nutritionists from all the different companies so as to get an all-round opinion and I found that the best were Top Spec, since they gave me advice and had knowledge of all the different brands, not just their own, and even recommended some other brands products to feed with theirs, in order to get the right mix for my horse.

I started adding Baileys topline cubes first (he was already on Alfa-A Oil and something else, can't remember what) - on the advice of the Baileys nutritionist and also on the fact I knew numerous people who had had great results from it. Unfortunately, although his condition improved, he went totally hyper and unmanagable (topline cubes are meant to be non-heating but they sent him through the roof). Not knocking the product as, like I said, I know plenty of people who have had brilliant results, it just wasn't right for my horse.

So then I looked at the Top Spec Cool and condition cubes. These worked pretty well but I was jumping large tracks at the time and the horse became a bit stuffy and struggled in terms of stamina - we'd get halfway round the track and he'd start to struggle (he was very fit, in full work, at least an hour a day of proper aerobic exercise, wind was fine, gut sounds all good etc., so it wasn't a fitness issue). So I spoke to Top Spec again and they recommended Top Spec Super conditioning flakes in addition to the cubes. These worked really well - I thought they might make him buzzy again but it seemed the perfect combination.

Having said this, (all that was a year ago!) I now have him on Spillers Conditioning fibre. Although the Top Spec was great for what I needed then, I had to feed loads of it and was slowly bankrupting myself (and also I don't like feeding that amount of hard feed, even though it was split between 3 feeds). The Spillers stuff is excellent - I feed it with a balancer and 'Magnitude' as he's liable to be a bit stressy, and you can feed as much or as little as you need depending on how the horse is doing. He's been on it all summer and I've just increased the amounts over winter - 2 feeds in summer and then I add in a lunch in winter as he gets more and this makes it easier for him to process it all (plus he LOVES coming in to a feed from the snowy field!!). He also has as much hay as he needs - haylage is a bit too rich for him and gives him the 'squits' which is not ideal when he's not a good doer in the first place!!

So basically, all of the above is what's worked for me - it may or may not work for you but I'm just giving you my experiences - I hope this helps (sorry it's so long!). The only other thing I'd say is that if you are changing things, change it gradually, one thing at a time so you can identify what works or doesn't work and then tailor it to your horse. I tend to give it 6-8 weeks at least when changing feeds, to get a true idea of how the feed is affecting the horse. It's taken me 2 years to find something that works exactly as I want it to!!

Bring back the days of oats, barley, chaff and bran I say - so much simpler without all these millions of products!!! ;o)

 

[Annagain]

I'd go for a conditioning mix and add vegetable or sunflower oil. You can buy a big 15l bottle of it in Tesco (and other supermarkets I'm sure) for about £10 and it lasted all winter last year, feeding about 100ml a day (they can have up to 200ml) It's a good cheap way to get non-heating calories into them and it does wonders for their coats.

 

[letrec_fan]

I would say there is probably a better conditoning feed than oats. If you are going to feed straights then you need other things in there aswell I think - no idea on straights but my instructor used to feed them and def. added a good supplement etc.

I think its also about being paitent - after just under a year (I got Pete, my horse in Jan) I can say he looks 100 x better than he did. He has def. changed from the skinny bag of bones racehorse he used to be. Obviously if its just a slight change and she used to be perfect weight, its not going to take so long for you but I if anything would just feed her tons of hay and a medium amount of concentrate, split into 2 or 3 meals.

I feed my boy:

3/4 scoop of Baileys no.4 (for conditioning)
1 level scoop Alfa-a oil (the best ever, he now has the most gorgeous glossy coat)
3/4 scoop of sugar beet in the winter (to add a bit of bulk and fibre)
1 scoop (50g) of Topspec No.1 Hoof supplement (I can reccomend this highly - after just 2 months my farrier has commented on improved hoof health and it also balances their diet and aids a shiny coat and calm head ie not a nutter!)

As Subens said above, Topspec are brilliant. Why not have a chat to their nutrionists? I spoke to Nicola and she gave loads of brilliant advice and even reccomended feed by other brands that complemented their own, which is partly how I decided to feed Alfa-a oil.

Good luck!

 

[OrangeEmpire]

My TB is on:

1.5 scoop rolled oats
1 scoop sugarbeet
3 scoops alfa A Oil

split into 2 feeds. He also has 1 mug of micronised linseed meal a day which is an excellent calorie giver and a mineral suppliment as oats are poor in vits and minerals.

Mine got all flat and dull in the autumn and it turned out he was deficient in some minerals. Put him on a suppliment and his weight and health blossomed. Easily neglected, but easily corrected too!

 

[cptrayes]

For goodness sake get out your scales and a weightape.

Roughly speaking, she should need 2% of her bodyweight daily, with about 1/3 of that as concentrates and the rest as hay or haylage. It sounds to me as if she simply isn't getting enough food and you don't have a clue what "enough" should be. Either ask an experienced person for advice or go do some research!

Ignore half of what you've read on here! Half of it's great but half is rubbish - one person, depending on scoop size, is telling you to feed SIX KILOS a day of conditioning mix. Unless she's a 17 hand TB hunter in hard work, if you want to blow her mind and give her lamintis to boot, carry on and do that. Not ONE person has asked you how big she is or what her breeding and temperament are or how much work she is doing, and you can't possibly give decent advice without knowing those things.

PLEASE get some help from someone who can see her!

 

[Koda]

cptrayes: I HAVE asked experienced people, the YM and my instructor. YM suggested I add the scoop of oats as she says its good for putting on weight. Instructor disagreed with this, saying there were better weight gaining feeds, but said to increase amount rather than change the feed and see what happens.
Since their opinions are conflicting, and I'm worried about my girlie, I thought I would throw the question out there and see what came back.
She is 16hh ISH, ridden 6 days per week. Jumping or flat for about 3/4 hour.
Thanks to you all for taking the time to give me some suggestions. Its good food for thought (pardon the pun!)

 

[cptrayes]

Have neither of them suggsted that she needed the food split into at least two? I feel for your predicament, because neither of your advisors seems to have helped at all, because that's the first piece of advice most people would give you.

Weigh her food, all of it, but weigh the sugar beet unsoaked. Given her size, she is likely to be around 500-550 kilos. So let's say she needs 10-11kg of food a day. With her work, she needs about 7 kilos of hay or haylage and 3-4 kilos of sugar beet/oats/etc Split that in two and feed it as far apart as you can manage, say at least 8 hours between the two.

Start with that, and then if she puts on weight you can reduce the hard food a bit (the oats, I would do). If that isn't enough to get a bit of weight on, give her 300ml of oil a day too - Tesco vegetable (rapeseed) oil will do fine. That will bump up the calories without the volume, so you won't be all night waiting for her to finish her tea

Good luck.

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
Not ONE person has asked you how big she is or what her breeding and temperament are or how much work she is doing, and you can't possibly give decent advice without knowing those things.

[/ QUOTE ] I agree you cannot prescribe a set diet plan without knowing size, workload etc., BUT you can give 'decent advice' about the basic principles of feeding for weight gain which is what I have done. I feel it is important for people to know the theory behind what they are feeding because it gives them the basic knowledge to assess all the other recommendations given to them by instructors, YOs, friends, people on forums etc!

 

[rascal]

Maybe you should buy YM a book on feeding horses for Christmas! Oats are not really going to get your ned to gain weight. Stick with the sugar beet its full of fibre and thats good. I would also reccomend one of the weight gain feeds, introduce it gradually, but she needs to be fed more than once a day. One huge feed will do no good. Agree with the add lib hay. Some of the herbal companies do a weight gain supplement too. Linseed can help.

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
Oats are not really going to get your ned to gain weight.

[/ QUOTE ] Nobody told this to my poor doer who is looking the best she ever has on sugar beet and oats, along with ad lib haylage! Oats don't suit all horses, admittedly, but can be a useful feed for those it does. There are lots of people on this forum who swear by the soaked oats diets for condition.

 

[Hippona]

As for feeding vegetable oil......I know many people do this, but actually you need to feed VitE with this as an anti-oxidant....you are better feeding something like Alfa-A oil....its all done for you in the correct quantities......don't want all those damaging free-radicals floating about.....

 

[rascal]

Def not something i would use, or ever have. A good conditioning feed will also have added vit & minerals.

 

[ester]

aside from all the other advice (I am a big fan of sugar beet), definitely 2 feeds etc

A lot of people have had good results with the soft n soak range for weight gain on here.

when was she last wormed and what with
if her teeth were done a year ago they probably need doing.

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
Def not something i would use, or ever have. A good conditioning feed will also have added vit & minerals.

[/ QUOTE ] Which is why I suggested the OP used a balancer if she went for the oat option!

 

[bigboyrocky]

Micronised barley is very good for weight gain.. carrots also seem to help, and then just a conditioning mix and a bit of chaff to bulk it up, and i woudl feed at least twice a day and in timepossibly 3 if you hve the access.

If she is lacking condition (as in coat, etc) then codlivine supplements are great!

 

[henryhorn]

Firstly get a worm count done then her teeth checked, a year is long enough for them to grow and make chewing difficult.
Put her on pink powders so at least the food she is getting is being digested.
Ditch the oats.
There are loads of really good conditioning mixes about, the best thing to do is email any of the big feed manufacturer's nutritionist's and ask their advice.
Saracen are expensive but really very good at this.
Add a good glug of oil to her feed every day.
She should also have ad-lib hay or haylage always available, and be sufficiently well rugged so any energy isn't going into keeping warm.

 

[amandaco2]

check her teeth
check shes warm enough
check shes got enough forage- adlib hay/haylage of good quality.
upto date worming esp encysted and tape.do a count.
is she fed enough for her size/build?
does she stress in the stable/field?
tbh i would feed her an oil based feed- something like alfa a oil with or without a conditioning mix and poss sugar beet/speedi beet. splitting the feeds into as many as poss will also help. possibly add in some ponk powder or dr green for a pick-me-up.

 

[amandaco2]

also just a note to say quite a lot of horses get get sharp hooks etc within 6-9months so its worth checking with the person doing the teeth when they think they need doing next. if they have good aligment etc they prob wont need doing as often.