skwal

Yes he got married last year.
He used to ride a couple of my friends horses for her and another friend used to keep her horse at his yard - hence all the info.
Apparently he might be coming to our yard to give some lessons some time soon too. Might stick my name down for one.
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A few years ago one horse had a heart attack in the show jumping ring at Burgie.

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That was actually a chap just up the road from me. He was quite badly injured at the time as well, but seems to be well on the road to recovery now. He rides and teaches now and even jumps a little but I doubt he'll event at top level again.

Just in case you were wondering.

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Thanks for the info too, my mum was up sj stewarding and was one of the people who went into the ring to assist.

Thanks for that . I read he got married , but didnt know if he was riding again . Pleased to hear it
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watching Sqwals round he looked like a quirky horse but one that was certainly up for it. Saying that, I have never seen him run before so my thoughts are purely my own.

Its very sad but there are horses in many other walks of life that have just dropped under the rider. I know ultra fit marathon runners who have died on completion.

I feel for all the connections with BOTH horses and dont in any way think these are 'abuse/cruelty' issues. However todays deaths, coupled with the comments made on the going, plus the AT investigation makes for a very difficult time for the sport.
 
If a horse doesn't want to do something it won't. You can't force a horse around a 4* so I think that answers your post.
 
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To be honest, from what I saw, although it was a bit hairy scary at times the horse did seem to be going forward and jumping well.

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I thought that too, if it hadn't been for the rider error at the VV he'd have had a have a super clear. Of course it looked uncomfortable, he had no noseband or martingale, take those away from other horses competing and I expect it would look less than comfortable too.

I do wonder if it was the bang to the head at the VV that caused it though
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There was a bit about this in the Q&A section of H&H a while ago. Andrew doesn't (or didn't) ride Skwal in a noseband as he's quite a quirky horse (hence the dressage score). He rides another of his top horses without a noseband too. I just want to say that Andrew is a lovely, lovely person and is much admired and respected in this part of the country. I don't know him fantastically well but he is always polite and chatty and treats his horses amazingly. He would not have put Skwal through this if he didn't think he was capable and up for it. No horse would complete a 4* if they didn't want to do it for whatever reason. I don't know what the past history is and obviously lucretia is quite bitter about it, but once you sell a horse it's out of your hands what you do with it. If you want to protect its future then you keep it - simple.
 
also notable difference was how quickly Jean Luc stopped when his horse was injuered compared with AT kicking on for 100 yards or more
 
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also notable difference was how quickly Jean Luc stopped when his horse was injuered compared with AT kicking on for 100 yards or more

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And Sarah Cohen pulling straight up and jumping off when she felt WL was slightly lame...
 
I did not see Skwal's round so can not comment.
But I did see the French horses accident and I want to say that every credit to the rider they pulled the horse up as quickly as possible.
A sad loss of two lovely horses.
 
From watching the round it looked like the horse was fairly all over the place throughout, and I honestly didn't notice much difference in his way of going either before or after he banged himself. I certainly didn't see anything that gave me any cause for concern.
 
quite right
he wasn't staggering on 3 legs or trying to pull himself up and back to trot

skwal completed like a bit tired but he wasn't dead lame, broken down and in pain like ATs horse

the two at badders were both accidents - one totally freak and the other totally unpredictable

the AT incident could have result in saving Le S had he been pulled up immediately and not run into the ground by the stupid rider (I will not insult the female species of dog by using their collective noun in reference to AT)

two at badders - very sad accidents

one at Rolex - murder
 
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A few years ago one horse had a heart attack in the show jumping ring at Burgie.

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That was actually a chap just up the road from me. He was quite badly injured at the time as well, but seems to be well on the road to recovery now. He rides and teaches now and even jumps a little but I doubt he'll event at top level again.
Just in case you were wondering.

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i was just thinking about him the other day in fact!!!! that great to hear. it was very sad day when his horse died, i was standing in the corner were it happend and watch his poor horse die it was over in a few minutes if not seconds. two horses died at burgie last year aswell
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one had a heart attack at the top of the hill and the other was PTS after breaking its jaw. I was jump judging at that end of the course and saw both.
 
Saddest thing to me still is when Lucinda's Wideawake dropped dead on the lap of honour at Badminton after the prizegiving.

although I was talking to a friend in France tonight whose wife was ill after a stroke for over 2 years before she died - he was in the supermarket today and a lady came in, dropped to the floor, went blue, then grey and was dead.

We did say that it was a much nicer way to go than the long lingering struggle his wife had.

These horses that die from a heart attack are dead before they hit the floor and can feel little pain or knowledge of what has happened to them
 
Going back a few years lucinda green's ( then prior palmer) horse dropped dead in the prize giving during the lap of honour think that was a heart attack, goes to show how it can happen any time.
My thoughts go out to the owners and riders of the horses that died today in what in my opinion were both very very sad accidents.
 
Actually I did see Skwal, at the water (its the no noseband that triggered my memory, I agree with airedale.

IMO the horse may have looked a little tired or a better way to describe it is not as bouncy as some of the others, but all horses are different, I saw nothing from the couple of fences I saw him jump to suggest he should have pulled up, no lameness, staggering or looking like the horse wanted to pull up. I didn't see what happened at the Vicarage V with him though.

Very different from the AT incident who was clearly having to kick her horse on as it was trying to slow down.
 
I saw Skwal at the quarry and although he looked quite tired, there didn't seem to be anything obviously wrong with him, he was still pricking his ears and jumping.

Tragic accident - but sadly these things do happen in eventing as we all know.

Thoughts are with all concerned.
 
I'm actually inclined to agree with you that the horse should have been pulled up, but then, I don't think most of the horses there should have been run today. Just my opinion though.

However, I don't think the tragic death of another event horse should be used to score points.
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Given the heat today, and the ground conditions, it was commonplace to see tired horses not running to their usual standards, so it while it was obvious the horse wasn't going well, nobody, not the rider nor the crowd, nor the ground jury, could possibly have an inkling about how serious the horse's condition was at that point.
In AT's case, the horse was obviously catastrophically injured, and though the crowd were shouting for her to pull up, along with some course officials (I believe?), she carried on pushing forward, then tried to excuse her actions by intimating that she couldn't stop the horse.

I don't think you can possibly compare the two tbh...
 
I think there is a slight difference in a horse that might be off its best, for any number of reasons, going across country compared to an obviously 3 legged horse being pushed on to jump the final fence and cross the finish.

Obviously Le Samurai enjoyed what he did, that was probably his downfall. His heart told him to keep going, when he should have launch AT in to orbit
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I watched all of badminton today i saw skwals fall into the ditch which on the face of it didnt look particually heavy,then he carried on just looking like he had his confidece dented. you cant critisise andrew for carrying on as he knows his horse and is a profesional and genuine horseman.It feels to me that a lot of people on this site spend far too much time lookig to crucify event riders for any misteak or choosing not to run.Thease horses are the product of years of toil, hardwork,quite often heartache and financal sacrifice.I wonder how many comments actually come from people who have any real insight of eventing at higher level.As for andrew and skwals owners my heartfelt sympaties go to them.
 
Eventing Chick I totally agree with you. It is very easy to look back in hindsight but at the end of the day eventing is a tough sport, and as Lucinda Green said, horses, just like people, die suddenly whether it be from heart attacks,internal bleeding, etc. That poor poor horse that died from the flag incident was a completely freak accident and my heart goes out to all involved. Everybody competing today thought long and hard about what they were doing and I don't think for one second they did anything that they thought would damage their horse. These horses are bred to gallop and jump, love the game, and are incredibly fit. The going was hard, but suited some horses just as terribly deep going suits others (Toytown). Half the time I think people just look for someone to judge, and I agree how many of them have a true understanding of top level eventing? However AT was wrong and is an exception.
x
 
[ QUOTE ]
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A few years ago one horse had a heart attack in the show jumping ring at Burgie.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was actually a chap just up the road from me. He was quite badly injured at the time as well, but seems to be well on the road to recovery now. He rides and teaches now and even jumps a little but I doubt he'll event at top level again.
Just in case you were wondering.

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i was just thinking about him the other day in fact!!!! that great to hear. it was very sad day when his horse died, i was standing in the corner were it happend and watch his poor horse die it was over in a few minutes if not seconds. two horses died at burgie last year aswell
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one had a heart attack at the top of the hill and the other was PTS after breaking its jaw. I was jump judging at that end of the course and saw both.

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Yeah it was very sad last year up there, we were fence judging too, thankfully we didn't witness it. So sorry for you having to witness them both
 
It wasn't nice at all, the first horse that broke his jaw galloped away from the fence where he fell, galloped towards as and down the road i run to close the top gate but was too slow i saw the mess he was in as he passed me it was very clear their wasn't anything they could do for him.
the second horse a grey fell at the logs at the top of the hill he had a heart attack, the vets were with him with in minutes, the Jump judge later told us he was alive when he hit the ground but died as the vets worked on him. their was a very long hold on cource with the grey.

are you caming up this year ?
 
Icare was a freak accident, no doubt. Yes, one could argue there might be a need for a change to the flags but people have been jumping with those ones for decades virtually without incident.

As to Skawl, I wasn't sitting on him so I don't know how he felt. (Just like I don't know how AT's horse felt.) But as to horses continuing on after signifigant injury . . . it happens all the time. To people, too. Adrenalin is a very powerful drug with incredible pain killing properties. Race horses routinely keep running on broken bones. Event horses jump around, only to be found to have blown out a tendon after the fact. It happens. LOTS of "recreational" horses are found to have signifigant problems they've compensated for until the crisis point is reached.

And horses are tremendously stoic. They WALK back to their stalls immediately after colic surgery - no person who has just had abdonimal surgery is going to do that! I just recently had a client's horse x-rayed because he has some intermittent mild lameness. Turns out the horse has a vertical fracture of his cannon bone!!!!! Judging by the healing - or lack of - it probably dates from his race carreer which ended over a year ago. He's been working and jumping and never saying "no". I feel horrible, the owner feels horrible but honestly the horse never gave us cause to doubt him until the incident this winter that made us suspicious.

I don't know if you can force a horse to jump when it doesn't want to. I think generally not. But then how did AT? And if Skawl (or any other horse) was tired enough for it to be obvious to bystanders how come that wasn't an indicator he should stop? If he did have a bleed (and we DON'T know) then it would have taken some time to be evident. Far more time than the less than a minute AT had to process her horse's situation. We will have to wait and see.

The fact is eventing IS dangerous. Horses do die doing it, just not usually on television. And before the days of YouTube we didn't see it over and over and over. Before bulletin boards people didn't get to weigh in on the situation initially unless they were immediately involved. Personally I never got over Bruce Davidson and Might Tango in Kentucky, (an opinion borne out by personal observation since then, I might add) which was without question ego over horse welfare, but clearly very few people even thought about it after the fact. I can tell you, in this climate, I'm glad I don't event professionally anymore. If you push too much you're abusive but if you don't push enough you're a bad sport and a wimp. You can't win now.
 
Cruiser
I completely agree with you. In this day and age, we can relive situations over and over whereas the rider has only seconds to judge whats going on. Eventing is dangerous, for horses and riders. I used to event to a decent level, where the big thing was to just get back on when you came off, horse fall or not, you had to keep going, partic if selectors were looking!! Having said that, courses were different, we expected less of ground conditions and horses weren't worth as much money.
Horses will run and run, even in pain, its what they do! Whatever the situation. Fight or flight!
I think though with AT though she knew, and was in denial...
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Moon drop
So sorry you had to see that and you will never forget it. My advanced horse was paralised and his backend kept collapsing. Terrifying to watch. With all the vets in the world you still know there is no hope. Horrid x
 
no I'll never forget any of them as i've been very unlucky to see 3 really bad accidents at burgie. although if i thought about them to much i won't be in a sport i love. accidents and deaths have been part of eventing from day one it just some thing you have to live with.
 
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