Eccles
Well-Known Member
True and you have to keep remembering these horses love it, we forge incredible partnerhips with them and we do our best for them at all times, whatever xx
skwal
- Thread starter lorenababbit
- Start date
rollright
Well-Known Member
how old was skwal does anybody know? x
teapot
Well-Known Member
15 (according to the H&R profiles on Bad. website)
moon_drop
Well-Known Member
Yes
After watching this after noon where two horses were tragically killed doing what the loved, i found myself giving my four big hugs and had a wee moment with willie my old guy. but tomorrow another day and good luck to tomorrows riders hope they all pass the trot up.
i hope all the people that fell today are ok like Oli Townend looked a hard fall.
My thoughts are with the riders,grooms and owners of Skwal and Icare DAuzay
RIP Skwal
RIP Icare DAuzay
After watching this after noon where two horses were tragically killed doing what the loved, i found myself giving my four big hugs and had a wee moment with willie my old guy. but tomorrow another day and good luck to tomorrows riders hope they all pass the trot up.
i hope all the people that fell today are ok like Oli Townend looked a hard fall.
My thoughts are with the riders,grooms and owners of Skwal and Icare DAuzay
RIP Skwal
RIP Icare DAuzay
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Oh god, please lets not talk anymore about Burgie. I was there competing last year when I heard about the horse who broke his jaw being PTS. Not something anyone wants to hear when they're about to go XC.
measles
Well-Known Member
[accidents and deaths have been part of eventing from day one it just some thing you have to live with.
[/ QUOTE ]
What a sad day with the loss of two talented and special horses. We don't event although I do acknowledge that it is the ultimate test of horsemanship and equine ability, but for one day we've had lots of time to spend thinking about the discipline.
My 12yo son and I went to watch at Central Scotland HT and then came home and watched the full BBC screening we'd taped from Badminton. My son was horrified at the freak accident to the chestnut horse and and we won't forget it. However, we also won't forget the woeful riding ability we saw today at the HT - in a few of the busy Intro sections there were only a handful of clear rounds in the SJ and towards the end of the XC there was nothing to follow as so many were eliminated.
My son said to me this evening that he will never event his ponies as he loves them too much - he feels there is too much scope for things to go wrong and what one day might be a simple Intro elimination for any number of reasons could the next be a accident with the ultimate price paid.
How sad.
[/ QUOTE ]
What a sad day with the loss of two talented and special horses. We don't event although I do acknowledge that it is the ultimate test of horsemanship and equine ability, but for one day we've had lots of time to spend thinking about the discipline.
My 12yo son and I went to watch at Central Scotland HT and then came home and watched the full BBC screening we'd taped from Badminton. My son was horrified at the freak accident to the chestnut horse and and we won't forget it. However, we also won't forget the woeful riding ability we saw today at the HT - in a few of the busy Intro sections there were only a handful of clear rounds in the SJ and towards the end of the XC there was nothing to follow as so many were eliminated.
My son said to me this evening that he will never event his ponies as he loves them too much - he feels there is too much scope for things to go wrong and what one day might be a simple Intro elimination for any number of reasons could the next be a accident with the ultimate price paid.
How sad.
AlwaysHopeful
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
quite right
he wasn't staggering on 3 legs or trying to pull himself up and back to trot
skwal completed like a bit tired but he wasn't dead lame, broken down and in pain like ATs horse
the two at badders were both accidents - one totally freak and the other totally unpredictable
the AT incident could have result in saving Le S had he been pulled up immediately and not run into the ground by the stupid rider (I will not insult the female species of dog by using their collective noun in reference to AT)
two at badders - very sad accidents
one at Rolex - murder
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't know that it could've resulted in Sparky surviving if AT pulled up. That's a BIG assumption.
On the other thread you guys were saying that at the SLIGHTEST sign of a horse being off, they should pull up. I haven't seen any video of this horse, but from what people have said, he hit his head RATHER hard. And he shouldn't have even been competing at this level anyways? Everyone was saying that it doesn't matter the degree, horse abuse is horse abuse, period, and all should be treated the same.
That all seems to change when the rider's not an American?
I was accused of having a biased view, but I could say the same of most of the other posters here.
quite right
he wasn't staggering on 3 legs or trying to pull himself up and back to trot
skwal completed like a bit tired but he wasn't dead lame, broken down and in pain like ATs horse
the two at badders were both accidents - one totally freak and the other totally unpredictable
the AT incident could have result in saving Le S had he been pulled up immediately and not run into the ground by the stupid rider (I will not insult the female species of dog by using their collective noun in reference to AT)
two at badders - very sad accidents
one at Rolex - murder
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't know that it could've resulted in Sparky surviving if AT pulled up. That's a BIG assumption.
On the other thread you guys were saying that at the SLIGHTEST sign of a horse being off, they should pull up. I haven't seen any video of this horse, but from what people have said, he hit his head RATHER hard. And he shouldn't have even been competing at this level anyways? Everyone was saying that it doesn't matter the degree, horse abuse is horse abuse, period, and all should be treated the same.
That all seems to change when the rider's not an American?
I was accused of having a biased view, but I could say the same of most of the other posters here.
dieseldog
Well-Known Member
Skwal looked unorthordox going around but obviously enjoying himself, I didn't think he hit his head at the ditch, he more slipped into it and hit it with his chest, his nose might have scrapped on the ground, I didn't see the rest of his round and was quite shocked when I found out he was dead.
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
from what i saw he didnt hit his head hard, he hit his chest, but got back up and jumped quite happily. To me he didnt look tired either, he looked like he had had his confidence dented and the only way to get confidence back is to jump some more. If it is a heart attack like alot of people are saying then hitting his head wouldnt come into it at all.
If LS had been pulled up at least he would have been in pain for a shorter period of time and it was the sort of injury that gets worse when ridden on, so yes quite possibly he could have been saved and even if he couldnt then it would have caused the horse less pain.
Tell me would you pull up a lame horse? i would! would you pull up a pony who has had his confidence dented? no i wouldnt i'd baby him round the rest of the course to build confidence. Would you pull up a tired horse? depends how tired if he is still going well just feeling a bit knackered and its towards the end of the course then no i wouldnt as its normal for them to feel tired at that point, if however the horse was dead to the leg and struggleing to find the energy to continue then yes i would pull up.
Skwal did not look to be struggleing at all and he walked away from the finnish line quite happy if a little tired. His ears were still forward right to the end.
If LS had been pulled up at least he would have been in pain for a shorter period of time and it was the sort of injury that gets worse when ridden on, so yes quite possibly he could have been saved and even if he couldnt then it would have caused the horse less pain.
Tell me would you pull up a lame horse? i would! would you pull up a pony who has had his confidence dented? no i wouldnt i'd baby him round the rest of the course to build confidence. Would you pull up a tired horse? depends how tired if he is still going well just feeling a bit knackered and its towards the end of the course then no i wouldnt as its normal for them to feel tired at that point, if however the horse was dead to the leg and struggleing to find the energy to continue then yes i would pull up.
Skwal did not look to be struggleing at all and he walked away from the finnish line quite happy if a little tired. His ears were still forward right to the end.
Nailed
Well-Known Member
Hello.
I didn't see any footage of this tragedy however i remember this horse from past times when i worked for Michael. He was a gem to handle, and i learnt alot form him and will remember what he was like back then.
He was a nice happy hansom horse with a big personality and I just hope he passed on quickly. The last time i saw Skwal was in 2004 when he went to compete in some lower level competition. I was looking forward to him going to badminton and this type of thing is always out of the blue..
Skwal would have been 15-16 i am not sure as it was along time ago the last time i saw him and he was about 13 then i think.
The French horse was also extremly unfortunate and I think his situation was alot worse i a hope that he is also in no pain now
lou x
I didn't see any footage of this tragedy however i remember this horse from past times when i worked for Michael. He was a gem to handle, and i learnt alot form him and will remember what he was like back then.
He was a nice happy hansom horse with a big personality and I just hope he passed on quickly. The last time i saw Skwal was in 2004 when he went to compete in some lower level competition. I was looking forward to him going to badminton and this type of thing is always out of the blue..
Skwal would have been 15-16 i am not sure as it was along time ago the last time i saw him and he was about 13 then i think.
The French horse was also extremly unfortunate and I think his situation was alot worse i a hope that he is also in no pain now
lou x
The Virgin Dubble
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
That all seems to change when the rider's not an American?
I was accused of having a biased view, but I could say the same of most of the other posters here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can I just assure you that this is not an American v British debate.
I can say, hand on heart, that had a British rider been on board Sparky, I would have felt exactly the same way as I do about AT's handling of the situation.
That all seems to change when the rider's not an American?
I was accused of having a biased view, but I could say the same of most of the other posters here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can I just assure you that this is not an American v British debate.
I can say, hand on heart, that had a British rider been on board Sparky, I would have felt exactly the same way as I do about AT's handling of the situation.
X
xspiralx
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
the horse was only sold to kathy( who had looked after him previously) for a tiny amount to be her hack and maybe do some low level one days so the fact that it was dragged out to competed again at such a high level not easy to bear now.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think thats really fair. Maybe the horse was sold to do lower level stuff, but if he was sound and fit and capable, why shouldn't they have taken him round badders?
I honestly think it was just a tragic accident, could have happened to anyone.
the horse was only sold to kathy( who had looked after him previously) for a tiny amount to be her hack and maybe do some low level one days so the fact that it was dragged out to competed again at such a high level not easy to bear now.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think thats really fair. Maybe the horse was sold to do lower level stuff, but if he was sound and fit and capable, why shouldn't they have taken him round badders?
I honestly think it was just a tragic accident, could have happened to anyone.
StrawberryFish
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the horse was only sold to kathy( who had looked after him previously) for a tiny amount to be her hack and maybe do some low level one days so the fact that it was dragged out to competed again at such a high level not easy to bear now.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think thats really fair. Maybe the horse was sold to do lower level stuff, but if he was sound and fit and capable, why shouldn't they have taken him round badders?
I honestly think it was just a tragic accident, could have happened to anyone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know about this, obviously we don't know the full story or why he was sold to be a hack etc.
I had a horse myself that I had to consider selling because I was way too big for him and was training for a job where I couldn't take him with me, or afford to keep him.
He was going to be sold on the proviso (sp) that he was not to compete too hard, light hunting etc as he was getting on but had plenty of life left if treated right.(Sadly he had to be PTS before I made a decision) Because of this, I am finding it hard to quantify the arguement in my head.
At the end of the day, if you sell a horse you no longer have a say in their carreer path, however, a horse sold to compete at a lower level (and again, I emphasis that we don't know the full story, it could have been an injury thing or just the old owners preference) competing at the highest level at the most challenging course, probably in the world would be galling if you were the old owner, so my heart also goes out to them as well as Skwal's current connections.
PS Sorry for long post!
[ QUOTE ]
the horse was only sold to kathy( who had looked after him previously) for a tiny amount to be her hack and maybe do some low level one days so the fact that it was dragged out to competed again at such a high level not easy to bear now.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think thats really fair. Maybe the horse was sold to do lower level stuff, but if he was sound and fit and capable, why shouldn't they have taken him round badders?
I honestly think it was just a tragic accident, could have happened to anyone.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know about this, obviously we don't know the full story or why he was sold to be a hack etc.
I had a horse myself that I had to consider selling because I was way too big for him and was training for a job where I couldn't take him with me, or afford to keep him.
He was going to be sold on the proviso (sp) that he was not to compete too hard, light hunting etc as he was getting on but had plenty of life left if treated right.(Sadly he had to be PTS before I made a decision) Because of this, I am finding it hard to quantify the arguement in my head.
At the end of the day, if you sell a horse you no longer have a say in their carreer path, however, a horse sold to compete at a lower level (and again, I emphasis that we don't know the full story, it could have been an injury thing or just the old owners preference) competing at the highest level at the most challenging course, probably in the world would be galling if you were the old owner, so my heart also goes out to them as well as Skwal's current connections.
PS Sorry for long post!
Bright_Spark
Well-Known Member
RIP Skwal
foolforahorse
Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That all seems to change when the rider's not an American?
I was accused of having a biased view, but I could say the same of most of the other posters here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can I just assure you that this is not an American v British debate.
I can say, hand on heart, that had a British rider been on board Sparky, I would have felt exactly the same way as I do about AT's handling of the situation.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would hope so - but what if an American had been on Skwal. An older horse who possibly was not sold to do this level of competition. It sounds like he was a stand up horse.
It seems the lesson of the past week is, just because a horse will continue on, it's up to the rider to decide what is truly in his best interest. These horses have such HUGE hearts and they love their jobs. But too many times this is taken for granted and the horse pays the price.
[ QUOTE ]
That all seems to change when the rider's not an American?
I was accused of having a biased view, but I could say the same of most of the other posters here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can I just assure you that this is not an American v British debate.
I can say, hand on heart, that had a British rider been on board Sparky, I would have felt exactly the same way as I do about AT's handling of the situation.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would hope so - but what if an American had been on Skwal. An older horse who possibly was not sold to do this level of competition. It sounds like he was a stand up horse.
It seems the lesson of the past week is, just because a horse will continue on, it's up to the rider to decide what is truly in his best interest. These horses have such HUGE hearts and they love their jobs. But too many times this is taken for granted and the horse pays the price.
weevil
Well-Known Member
What if an American had been on Skawl? It would have made no difference, the horse did not appear to be struggling round the course. You mention that he was an older horse, but Over To You is an old horse yet looks like he would have years of competition left in him. I don't know the ins and outs of Skwal's career but heart attacks can happen at any time and without warning.
It doesn't matter what the nationality of LeSamurai's rider is. I would have felt the same whatever.
It doesn't matter what the nationality of LeSamurai's rider is. I would have felt the same whatever.
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
Well i have a 25 yearold pony who will quite happily drag me round an XC course if i allow him (im not suicidal enough) so why on earth should the age of a fit and healthy horse come into it? 15 isnt old now, weve had older go round badminton (over to you), and older still go round hickstead (21 with one of the wittakers). The horse felt up for it so why not heart attacks happen to 3 yearolds and 30 yearolds there is no age for it!
foolforahorse
Member
[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't matter what the nationality of LeSamurai's rider is. I would have felt the same whatever.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, I would hope so.
[ QUOTE ]
i am devastated. the kindest easiest horse i have ever done when ridden by michael diamantides, the horse was only sold to kathy( who had looked after him previously) for a tiny amount to be her hack and maybe do some low level one days so the fact that it was dragged out to competed again at such a high level not easy to bear now. i didnt think the horse looked fantastic when i came in just after he had done the vicarage vee and as for having to smack him into the last fence, not skwal, not ever. the owner should be ashamed though i suppose she will say the horse was loving it. skwal does love jumping he was fantastic at burghley but that does not excuse our responsibility to look after their interests when we should know best.
[/ QUOTE ]
Aside from the above inside info, I am surprised by the almost total support for Skwal's rider. Some say he struggled on course, and he had a problem at a ditch....wasn't sold to compete at these levels........whatever. RIP great Skwal.
It doesn't matter what the nationality of LeSamurai's rider is. I would have felt the same whatever.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, I would hope so.
[ QUOTE ]
i am devastated. the kindest easiest horse i have ever done when ridden by michael diamantides, the horse was only sold to kathy( who had looked after him previously) for a tiny amount to be her hack and maybe do some low level one days so the fact that it was dragged out to competed again at such a high level not easy to bear now. i didnt think the horse looked fantastic when i came in just after he had done the vicarage vee and as for having to smack him into the last fence, not skwal, not ever. the owner should be ashamed though i suppose she will say the horse was loving it. skwal does love jumping he was fantastic at burghley but that does not excuse our responsibility to look after their interests when we should know best.
[/ QUOTE ]
Aside from the above inside info, I am surprised by the almost total support for Skwal's rider. Some say he struggled on course, and he had a problem at a ditch....wasn't sold to compete at these levels........whatever. RIP great Skwal.
spaniel
Well-Known Member
The horse had a heart attack from what I can gather. I personally didnt think he was struggling at all on the course and that it was just very sad that he died when he did.
weevil
Well-Known Member
I didn't see the fence where he appeared to have a problem but did see the horse on the course (can't remember what fence) and he did not appear to be struggling. I think that is the main difference between this case and AT.
X
xspiralx
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
Aside from the above inside info, I am surprised by the almost total support for Skwal's rider. Some say he struggled on course, and he had a problem at a ditch....wasn't sold to compete at these levels........whatever. RIP great Skwal.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lots of horses had sticky moments on the course, left legs, stumbled etc - and were fine. I didn't see him run, but most people who did see him say he looked fine, bit unruly, bit tired, whatever - but not lame or anything obviously wrong.
The story about him not sold for competition at those levels is really quite irrelevant, as nobody seems to know the ins and outs of it.
Aside from the above inside info, I am surprised by the almost total support for Skwal's rider. Some say he struggled on course, and he had a problem at a ditch....wasn't sold to compete at these levels........whatever. RIP great Skwal.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lots of horses had sticky moments on the course, left legs, stumbled etc - and were fine. I didn't see him run, but most people who did see him say he looked fine, bit unruly, bit tired, whatever - but not lame or anything obviously wrong.
The story about him not sold for competition at those levels is really quite irrelevant, as nobody seems to know the ins and outs of it.
The Virgin Dubble
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That all seems to change when the rider's not an American?
I was accused of having a biased view, but I could say the same of most of the other posters here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can I just assure you that this is not an American v British debate.
I can say, hand on heart, that had a British rider been on board Sparky, I would have felt exactly the same way as I do about AT's handling of the situation.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would hope so - but what if an American had been on Skwal. An older horse who possibly was not sold to do this level of competition. It sounds like he was a stand up horse.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having assured the poster that this is not a USA v GB debate, I didn't think I'd need to spell it out, but of course, had an American been riding Skwal, I would have felt exactly the same way.
Skwal had a quirky round throughout, and he died from something that was not obvious to a single person there.
Sparky was running on three legs, obviously badly injured, with people screaming for him to be dismounted.
In both cases, the nationality of the rider is COMPLETELY irrelevant.
[ QUOTE ]
It seems the lesson of the past week is, just because a horse will continue on, it's up to the rider to decide what is truly in his best interest. These horses have such HUGE hearts and they love their jobs. But too many times this is taken for granted and the horse pays the price.
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely! I couldn't agree more.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That all seems to change when the rider's not an American?
I was accused of having a biased view, but I could say the same of most of the other posters here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can I just assure you that this is not an American v British debate.
I can say, hand on heart, that had a British rider been on board Sparky, I would have felt exactly the same way as I do about AT's handling of the situation.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would hope so - but what if an American had been on Skwal. An older horse who possibly was not sold to do this level of competition. It sounds like he was a stand up horse.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having assured the poster that this is not a USA v GB debate, I didn't think I'd need to spell it out, but of course, had an American been riding Skwal, I would have felt exactly the same way.
Skwal had a quirky round throughout, and he died from something that was not obvious to a single person there.
Sparky was running on three legs, obviously badly injured, with people screaming for him to be dismounted.
In both cases, the nationality of the rider is COMPLETELY irrelevant.
[ QUOTE ]
It seems the lesson of the past week is, just because a horse will continue on, it's up to the rider to decide what is truly in his best interest. These horses have such HUGE hearts and they love their jobs. But too many times this is taken for granted and the horse pays the price.
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely! I couldn't agree more.
Nailed
Well-Known Member
I know of andrew and I know he takes his horses seriously and with compassion. If Skwal had not been right he would not of ran him. This type of thing can happen at any time to anyone.
Skwal was a lovly individual with his own jumping style. Ok so he was sold for the quieter life. But to be fair, if he was happy and fit then there was no reason for him not to go around again.
Lou x
Skwal was a lovly individual with his own jumping style. Ok so he was sold for the quieter life. But to be fair, if he was happy and fit then there was no reason for him not to go around again.
Lou x
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
I think it does sound odd that he was sold as a hack and then went on to Badminton. But he did manage to get to Badminton (managed to qualify etc.) so its hardly a one off in which case you could possibly have said he shouldn't have been there. We dont know WHY he was sold as a hack etc. or anything of his background so its hard to comment on that aspect.
Agree with Dubble - this is totally different. The horse was not showing signs that he was going to collapse and die at the finish! Yes, he had the odd hairy moment XC but then lots of horses do - you cant say many make it look easy. And the fact that he has banged his nose when he tripped at the VV - I thought this still wouldnt have caused the death anyway? I thought what he died from (brain hammorage wasnt it?) was a VERY quick instant thing and not necessarily caused by anything. So surely if the fall did this, he would have died there and then?
The point being that had he known his horse was on deaths door, of course he would have pulled up! This is nothing LIKE the Amy & Sparky incident, nothing at all.
Agree with Dubble - this is totally different. The horse was not showing signs that he was going to collapse and die at the finish! Yes, he had the odd hairy moment XC but then lots of horses do - you cant say many make it look easy. And the fact that he has banged his nose when he tripped at the VV - I thought this still wouldnt have caused the death anyway? I thought what he died from (brain hammorage wasnt it?) was a VERY quick instant thing and not necessarily caused by anything. So surely if the fall did this, he would have died there and then?
The point being that had he known his horse was on deaths door, of course he would have pulled up! This is nothing LIKE the Amy & Sparky incident, nothing at all.
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
MM, Someone mentions he'd lost the plot in the SJ'ing possibly the reason they sold him as a hack because they couldn't exactly sell him as an eventer could they? He was only 15, Sandy went there at 18 and was placed and Over To You is 19! He had good placing at 3* and the look on his face in the piccie gallery says it all!
Thistle
Well-Known Member
That is certainly not the record of an unfit and unable horse. What a good number of completions at a high level. So what if he could never win because of his dressage.
If that was true we would never take Willough out again!
If that was true we would never take Willough out again!
Nailed
Well-Known Member
He went for the 'quieter life' at the start of 2004. As i remember he went to do dressage. He was a horse who needed a break. He came back from that and was running quiet happy. I personally dont see the problem. Its just an unfortunate tragidy.
Lou x
Lou x
darksided
Well-Known Member
QR when I saw Skwal out on the course, I made a comment about how enthusiastic and happy he looked galloping past.
RIP Skwal
RIP Skwal
Alibear
Well-Known Member
Well I'm not trashing through all 5 pages but
When he fell at the Vicaridge V when jumping the ditch he went down completly on all 4 yet that wasn'ta hrose fall?
I swore at the telly and said they should have stopped him there and then. Wish they had of done but hindsight it a wonderfull thing.
THey jaw crossing and opening didn't bother me figured it was his way of going but there was a total loss inhis confidence at V and he should have been pulled up and yes I think his rider should have been disciplined for it.
But that's just me.
When he fell at the Vicaridge V when jumping the ditch he went down completly on all 4 yet that wasn'ta hrose fall?
I swore at the telly and said they should have stopped him there and then. Wish they had of done but hindsight it a wonderfull thing.
THey jaw crossing and opening didn't bother me figured it was his way of going but there was a total loss inhis confidence at V and he should have been pulled up and yes I think his rider should have been disciplined for it.
But that's just me.