Sleep now my beautiful boy.

I agree it ' feels 'like attention seeking however I do understand why someone loaning a horse would not be committed to keeping it long term if lame
 
From looking through past posts I realised this girl used to keep her horse at a yard where I have friends. Through friends of friends and I have found that it is true that the horse existed and has been PTS. He was a competition horse and didn't settle at all well in a typical DIY arrangement and was very difficult to manage including hating being in a box. He was subsequently moved to another yard. I have it on good authority that the girl was quite sweet and she was probably taken in by the previous owner and "broken" during his time as an eventer.

So whilst you may not agree with her decision it is her decision and she is unlikely to have much money at her age nor the luxury of her own yard where an extra mouth isn't a big deal.

Perhaps the witch hunt of a young girl can now stop?
 
Sussexbythe Christmas tree said:
From looking through past posts I realised this girl used to keep her horse at a yard where I have friends. Through friends of friends and I have found that it is true that the horse existed and has been PTS. He was a competition horse and didn't settle at all well in a typical DIY arrangement and was very difficult to manage including hating being in a box. He was subsequently moved to another yard. I have it on good authority that the girl was quite sweet and she was probably taken in by the previous owner and "broken" during his time as an eventer.

So whilst you may not agree with her decision it is her decision and she is unlikely to have much money at her age nor the luxury of her own yard where an extra mouth isn't a big deal.

Perhaps the witch hunt of a young girl can now stop?
Click to expand...

She could afford him before he was lame. I am sure she could have given him a bit more time if she REALLY did care a jot. And she has lied. Why do that? I've said my piece and stand by what I said.
 
Goldenstar said:
I agree it ' feels 'like attention seeking however I do understand why someone loaning a horse would not be committed to keeping it long term if lame
Click to expand...

Many years ago I was in the same situation. The horse had broken his hock as it finally turned out, but I kept him for 12 weeks, took loans out to pay the excess on his vet fees, had him xrayed, box rested the lot. Owners did eventually take him back after 3 months and it was only post mortem that the fracture was found. But I kept him for three months and the owners only had him back when we realised he would not get better. Obviously, they were responsible owners, but if they hadn't have been I would have done the same thing, because I cared about him. I was very young and it meant I had no horse to ride but I did my level best for him.
 
Lovely pictures you have of him. I'm sorry for your loss. I know from experience its hard to get over and you will always think of him. I hope you have wonderful memories of your time together,
 
Wow, so on one hand we have someone being berated for passing on a lame horse to hack rather than putting to sleep, and on the other a young girl being equally slammed for putting to sleep a lame horse that was not settling into a happy hacking life. A horse that wasn't even hers, if you want to point fingers then maybe start with this horses owners who passed on an unsuitable horse to a young girl then seemingly washed their hands when things went wrong. I remember being that age and how quickly you fall hook line and sinker. Having had my boy put to sleep less than a month ago I understand this is an emotive subject and I understand you are grieving for your mare Wagtail and perhaps this is clouding your view as you fought so long for her. It is a wretched decision to make and nobody can judge but the person who has to make that decision.
 
Bigginge said:
Wow, so on one hand we have someone being berated for passing on a lame horse to hack rather than putting to sleep, and on the other a young girl being equally slammed for putting to sleep a lame horse that was not settling into a happy hacking life.
Click to expand...

You misunderstand. Horse HAD been a happy hacker for several years. Then OP set about schooling and fittening the horse for competition and hunting. The horse broke. I agree, that IF the owners knew what she was doing, and IF they wiped their hands of the horse then they are to blame.
 
Sussexbythe Christmas tree said:
From looking through past posts I realised this girl used to keep her horse at a yard where I have friends. Through friends of friends and I have found that it is true that the horse existed and has been PTS. He was a competition horse and didn't settle at all well in a typical DIY arrangement and was very difficult to manage including hating being in a box. He was subsequently moved to another yard. I have it on good authority that the girl was quite sweet and she was probably taken in by the previous owner and "broken" during his time as an eventer.

So whilst you may not agree with her decision it is her decision and she is unlikely to have much money at her age nor the luxury of her own yard where an extra mouth isn't a big deal.

Perhaps the witch hunt of a young girl can now stop?
Click to expand...

Thankyou very much for saying this, I'm thankful you took the time to write this..

Right. THIS IS NOT A HOAX FOR ATTENTION.. I took this horse on yes, a couple of months ago and perhaps became more attached to him than I would another person to a horse because I have wanted a horse my whole life and this was my first oppertunity to realise this dream..

I am 18 not 17, and the previous mare's owner (the one I asked about before) ducked out last minute. Perhaps I exaggerated on the box rest but I took into account days he had been kept in and not turned out that I did not know about, as he went out for 3-4 hours a day it was the woman I liveried off that turned out/brought in and I wrongly assumed this had been done so some days before I officially put him on box rest.

He was loaned to me as being retired from eventing at 14 (which I realise now is suspicious if he didnt sustain an injury as this would have been his prime), and then used as a happy hacker but due to him not coping really with being a happy hacker they attempted to bring him back into work before I got his but didn't have the time, and so they looked to loaning him out for bringing back into work which took time and then I took him on. I did have ambitions to hunt but not for a long time and I certainly didn't over work him, as stuck to walk and trot (apart from on hacks) and built up, and to this day didn't jump him any higher than a small cross pole. His owners were well aware of the plans I had for him, and agreed this, they were also well aware and happy with the work I was doing with him..

As soon as I realised he was lame, (I had suspicions 5 days beforehand so stopped riding him and started cold hosing and stable bandages and inhand walks in the hope he may just be stiff, before realising he was definitely more seriously lame on xmas eve) I did a 6 day bute trial, double dosing him to start with. He was still very lame during the peak of the trial, and even more so obviously afterwards. So the option to be on bute for the rest of his life wasnt there. I had had the dentist out to him a month prior, I had also had the farrier out a couple of weeks prior and his tack/bridle had not changed.

After the trial I rang a vet and explained in detail the situation and realistically asked for opinions of the possible outcomes that they would offer should I call them out. They said that based on what I had said and what I had already done they would advise an uncertain amount of box rest, or to turn out into the field for 6 months and then re-evaluate when he came back in. Or various exploratitive (sp?) measures, which considering he isnt great witht eh vet would have been fun, and would also have meant he would have to be on box rest during the course of whatever was decided.

I had his owner due down to checkup on him at the new yard anyway, and so when she came down I said that I am not in a position to keep a lame horse, I was also facing some personal issues that I hadnt been aware of when I took the horse on that could compromise my ablity to keep him, (my job was a temporary and not permanent contract which ends on the 25th of Jan, and no confirmed job yet.. Also thought I may had been caught speeding for the second time which as I havent been driving long would result in a ban, so I would have no way of getting to the stables). So I said that they would have to take him back at some point, and after I had broached these problems I could be in a position to take him back, and that they should use this time to do some investigating.

He came from an event yard who were loaning out their old horses to get in new stock, his lifelong friend horse Wizard was due to be PTS as they couldnt responsible loan him out (18hh, chronic rearer, sarcoids, crumbly feet, and allergic to evrything, fly pray, clipper oil, a lot of feeds) so they didn't want him back to bond with wizard for the short time, nor did his true owner (the owner of the event yard) have space for him, nor did he want him back. (Very business minded, old school German man.) So I was rung and told we can sign him over to you, or he is to be pts; do you mind arranging it if so.

So the decision was made, as it would have been irresponsible for me considering my circumstances to take him on. I booked it so it was imminent as I couldn't bear to look after him and be with him knowing what was going to happen to him, maybe some of you can but I guess you're stronger than me in that respect then..

I was exaggerating with the hooley, perhaps to make it sound like he had a better last day than he did, or perhaps because it is a turn of phrase. I also DID have him insured, his owners did not at their yard and wouldnt have if he went back. In the sweaty photo o my riding him I actually had been walking and trotting for a half an hour private lesson, and the sweating up was resulting from him not being clipped (he had to be sedated to do so) and it was sunny, also from me asking for him to work through his back which he wasn't used to doing. I do not apologise for getting that attached that quickly, I did love him, and I do not apologise for having favorite photos oh him.

I can't think of anything else that I need to clear up really but if you want to know anymore then please ask.. I cannot berate people for having their own opinion about the situation but I hope maybe now that you can educate yourself about the ins and out of my situation you can make a more fact based judgement of me.
 
Last edited:
Wagtail said:
Really sorry to hear about Daisy. I lost my girl just a month before and I suppose that is part of the reason why this thread has angered me so much. Nothing worse than crocodile tears. On the day the OP posted about her horse going lame she just said 'My horse went lame on Christmas eve. THANKS WHISPER!' and she had him shot six days later. Doesn't hang about, does she?
Click to expand...

Eurgh.
 
Marie1 said:
Thankyou very much for saying this, I'm thankful you took the time to write this..

Right. THIS IS NOT A HOAX FOR ATTENTION.. I took this horse on yes, a couple of months ago and perhaps became more attached to him than I would another person to a horse because I have wanted a horse my whole life and this was my first oppertunity to realise this dream..

I am 18 not 17, and the previous mare's owner (the one I asked about before) ducked out last minute. Perhaps I exaggerated on the box rest but I took into account days he had been kept in and not turned out that I did not know about, as he went out for 3-4 hours a day it was the woman I liveried off that turned out/brought in and I wrongly assumed this had been done so some days before I officially put him on box rest.

He was loaned to me as being retired from eventing at 14 (which I realise now is suspicious if he didnt sustain an injury as this would have been his prime), and then used as a happy hacker but due to him not coping really with being a happy hacker they attempted to bring him back into work before I got his but didn't have the time, and so they looked to loaning him out for bringing back into work which took time and then I took him on. I did have ambitions to hunt but not for a long time and I certainly didn't over work him, as stuck to walk and trot (apart from on hacks) and built up, and to this day didn't jump him any higher than a small cross pole. His owners were well aware of the plans I had for him, and agreed this, they were also well aware and happy with the work I was doing with him..

As soon as I realised he was lame, (I had suspicions 5 days beforehand so stopped riding him and started cold hosing and stable bandages and inhand walks in the hope he may just be stiff, before realising he was definitely more seriously lame on xmas eve) I did a 6 day bute trial, double dosing him to start with. He was still very lame during the peak of the trial, and even more so obviously afterwards. So the option to be on bute for the rest of his life wasnt there. I had had the dentist out to him a month prior, I had also had the farrier out a couple of weeks prior and his tack/bridle had not changed.

After the trial I rang a vet and explained in detail the situation and realistically asked for opinions of the possible outcomes that they would offer should I call them out. They said that based on what I had said and what I had already done they would advise an uncertain amount of box rest, or to turn out into the field for 6 months and then re-evaluate when he came back in. Or various exploratitive (sp?) measures, which considering he isnt great witht eh vet would have been fun, and would also have meant he would have to be on box rest during the course of whatever was decided.

I had his owner due down to checkup on him at the new yard anyway, and so when she came down I said that I am not in a position to keep a lame horse, I was also facing some personal issues that I hadnt been aware of when I took the horse on that could compromise my ablity to keep him, (my job was a temporary and not permanent contract which ends on the 25th of Jan, and no confirmed job yet.. Also thought I may had been caught speeding for the second time which as I havent been driving long would result in a ban, so I would have no way of getting to the stables). So I said that they would have to take him back at some point, and after I had broached these problems I could be in a position to take him back, and that they should use this time to do some investigating.

He came from an event yard who were loaning out their old horses to get in new stock, his lifelong friend horse Wizard was due to be PTS as they couldnt responsible loan him out (18hh, chronic rearer, sarcoids, crumbly feet, and allergic to evrything, fly pray, clipper oil, a lot of feeds) so they didn't want him back to bond with wizard for the short time, nor did his true owner (the owner of the event yard) have space for him, nor did he want him back. (Very business minded, old school German man.) So I was rung and told we can sign him over to you, or he is to be pts; do you mind arranging it if so.

So the decision was made, as it would have been irresponsible for me considering my circumstances to take him on. I booked it so it was imminent as I couldn't bear to look after him and be with him knowing what was going to happen to him, maybe some of you can but I guess you're stronger than me in that respect then..

I was exaggerating with the hooley, perhaps to make it sound like he had a better last day than he did, or perhaps because it is a turn of phrase. I also DID have him insured, his owners did not at their yard and wouldnt have if he went back. In the sweaty photo o my riding him I actually had been walking and trotting for a half an hour private lesson, and the sweating up was resulting from him not being clipped (he had to be sedated to do so) and it was sunny, also from me asking for him to work through his back which he wasn't used to doing. I do not apologise for getting that attached that quickly, I did love him, and I do not apologise for having favorite photos oh him.

I can't think of anything else that I need to clear up really but if you want to know anymore then please ask.. I cannot berate people for having their own opinion about the situation but I hope maybe now that you can educate yourself about the ins and out of my situation you can make a more fact based judgement of me.
Click to expand...

Thank you for explaining. It is a shame you did not explain more clearly in previous posts and contradict yourself. I am horrified that a vet would discuss such a serious outcome for a horse without actually coming out. Mine certainly wouldn't. It would have been nice to have given the horse the benefit of actually SEEING a vet before doing your own trial (vets are not legally allowed to give people bute without seeing the horse), and you say yourself that you had insurance. But at the end of the day, the owners have behaved despicably. They should have taken the horse back and dealt with it themselves.
 
Ok - sorry to appear blunt.

You got a free horse, you insured him even though his owner did not, you had him in total for nearly 9 weeks - he went lame in week 8 - after a week of being lame he was shot in his 9th week of your ownership.

Firstly I am surpised the insurance will be paying out but that is just a statement of fact - but please can you explain why your very very first post on this forum only in October 2013 - was about taking a horse - that from memory was a 17.2hh mare - on loan - and who would get the insurance if it were pts, you or the owner.... - now to me that is a very very strange first post - it would appear that this hyperthetical question has now actually come true - call me a cynical old bat..... but this just does not sit right with me.
 
Last edited:
I'm sorry op but I have to agree with Gingerwitch, I too have looked at previous posts by you and things don't add up! Maybe you could shed some more light on your previous posts??
 
Gingerwitch said:
Ok - sorry to appear blunt.

You got a free horse, you insured him even though his owner did not, you had him in total for nearly 9 weeks - he went lame in week 8 - after a week of being lame he was shot in his 9th week of your ownership.

Firstly I am surpised the insurance will be paying out but that is just a statement of fact - but please can you explain why your very very first post on this forum only in October 2013 - was about taking a horse - that from memory was a 17.2hh mare - on loan - and who would get the insurance if it were pts, you or the owner.... - not to me that is a very very strange first post - it would appear that this hyperthetical question has now actually come true - call me a cynical old bat..... but this just does not sit right with me.
Click to expand...

Nor me. But I doubt the insurance will pay out unless the vet had attended and signed that the horse was PTS for humane purposes. As a vet never saw the horse...
 
Wagtail said:
Nor me. But I doubt the insurance will pay out unless the vet had attended and signed that the horse was PTS for humane purposes. As a vet never saw the horse...
Click to expand...

I am certain the insurance company won't pay out unless they have a detailed vets report.
 
I think you've been mightily decent in clearing things up for people on here as it will help put peoples minds at rest and stop the speculation; it is always a sensitive subject - As long as you know you did what is best for him then that's all you could've done. As I found out when I had my boy PTS... you're your own worst judge as you and you alone have to live with that decision forever.

Out of curiosity could i ask why he was only given 6 days to recover on bute though? Did he have a pre-existing condition which means you thought he wouldn't pull through as If he was insured then surely you would get it looked at by a vet and an examination done. I only say as one of mine was on bute for weeks and had to be turned out in small paddock (did not like stable one bit) - and this just went down as 'unknown lameness' from the vet- They never did diagnose but 6 years later and at 20 years old he never did have any more hind lameness.
 
Wagtail I feel uncomfortable reading your posts here.
You are welcome to your opinion but in my opinion there is a line and you have stepped over it.
 
Which are the ones you would like to know about?

The one about the mare was my first. I had found the mare and been to see her agreed everything and those were some questions that my mum had asked that, not having had a full loan before I didn't know the answers to. So I asked people on here as to the general consensus.. Yes I agree that it is eerily coincidental that what I asked has become true but sometimes these things happen..

I did take insurance out on him, and did pay a years up front, I was aware of his age and that anything could happen, plus I would never take on any horse without having insurance as I know full well I would not have the money to pay a surprise vet bill that could be 4 figures. The previous home did not have any of their horses insured as the owner was a very well off man who owned the stables as a hobby, did not ride or groom himself and he has the disposable income (I assume, or he is just stupid) to deal with any surprise bills.

I haven't claimed on my insurance to have the horse pts. I paid for it myself as I had the money from christmas.

I also had no qualms about naming the yard I was on as I have nothing to hide, nor have I fabricated any of my story, therefore should anyone want to find out more from anyone they may know from the yards I was at they now have the info to do so.
 
So at the centre of this was a horse, which was fine as a happy hacker, asked to do more, not fine and then not given the chance to just be found a home as a happy hacker again, but shot, very quickly?

I am very very sad for this horse. OP aside, people opinions aside...we read of peoples genuine struggles on here all of the time where horses being pts is a very last option and it is a very emotive one for obvious reasons.

I just cannot get over the terribly sad fact that this horse has been utterly, UTTERLY let down by humans. I thoroughly support PTS as an option for a horse that will either live a life of pain or go to an uncertain future, but it doesn't seem like an alternative future was given much chance to be found here.

OP, I don't know all the details, if it was your only option, I support that, but I am sad. Just really sad for the horse.
 
JingleSmells said:
So at the centre of this was a horse, which was fine as a happy hacker, asked to do more, not fine and then not given the chance to just be found a home as a happy hacker again, but shot, very quickly?

I am very very sad for this horse. OP aside, people opinions aside...we read of peoples genuine struggles on here all of the time where horses being pts is a very last option and it is a very emotive one for obvious reasons.

I just cannot get over the terribly sad fact that this horse has been utterly, UTTERLY let down by humans. I thoroughly support PTS as an option for a horse that will either live a life of pain or go to an uncertain future, but it doesn't seem like an alternative future was given much chance to be found here.

OP, I don't know all the details, if it was your only option, I support that, but I am sad. Just really sad for the horse.
Click to expand...

He was not even given the decency of a visit from the Vet before his fate was decided.
 
JingleSmells said:
So at the centre of this was a horse, which was fine as a happy hacker, asked to do more, not fine and then not given the chance to just be found a home as a happy hacker again, but shot, very quickly?

I am very very sad for this horse. OP aside, people opinions aside...we read of peoples genuine struggles on here all of the time where horses being pts is a very last option and it is a very emotive one for obvious reasons.

I just cannot get over the terribly sad fact that this horse has been utterly, UTTERLY let down by humans. I thoroughly support PTS as an option for a horse that will either live a life of pain or go to an uncertain future, but it doesn't seem like an alternative future was given much chance to be found here.

OP, I don't know all the details, if it was your only option, I support that, but I am sad. Just really sad for the horse.
Click to expand...

Very well said.
 
Gingerwitch said:
He was not even given the decency of a visit from the Vet before his fate was decided.
Click to expand...

Then what was the point of insurance. If you pay for insurance in order to cover surprise veterinary costs, why not use that to get a vet to treat the horse when it goes lame?

I am confused. Confused in many ways.

Confused because I absolutely hate to think badly of people and do not want to condemn the OP in case she is innocent in this. But also confused because I just cannot fathom the way this horse has just gone, without any vet care or investigation or even a chance of a different fate?
 
ihatework said:
Wagtail I feel uncomfortable reading your posts here.
You are welcome to your opinion but in my opinion there is a line and you have stepped over it.
Click to expand...

Well we obviously have different values on the treatment of horses. I happen to think they should be seen by a vet before making judgements on their prognosis. But I respect owners rights to PTS any horse they wish for any reason. But I do resent it if they then try to say they loved the horse after giving it just 6 days without even getting the vet out.
 
JingleSmells said:
So at the centre of this was a horse, which was fine as a happy hacker, asked to do more, not fine and then not given the chance to just be found a home as a happy hacker again, but shot, very quickly?

I am very very sad for this horse. OP aside, people opinions aside...we read of peoples genuine struggles on here all of the time where horses being pts is a very last option and it is a very emotive one for obvious reasons.

I just cannot get over the terribly sad fact that this horse has been utterly, UTTERLY let down by humans. I thoroughly support PTS as an option for a horse that will either live a life of pain or go to an uncertain future, but it doesn't seem like an alternative future was given much chance to be found here.

OP, I don't know all the details, if it was your only option, I support that, but I am sad. Just really sad for the horse.
Click to expand...

You are massively entitled to your opinion but as I say they either said put him down, or we will sign him over to you and due to circumstances I have explained taking him on was not an option at all. I had no means of caring for him. He was tried as a happy hacker and became unmanageable due to it not being enough, he was then a field ornament which made it worse. They then brought him back into work and competed again and he returned to the same horse he had always been, then they aquired new horses, or the event rider moved on I don't know, but circumstances forced them to not be able to event him anymore and he was once again a hacker, a very rarely used hacker as they didn't have the time for him which turned him into nightmare horse again. This prompted them to decide to find him a full loan home which took a long time due to him being not a very well behaved horse, and a huge horse at 18hh. This all spanned the 2.5 years in between him being an event horse and me taking him on.

I only had him on a 6 day bute trial as this is what I was advised by the very experienced woman I livery off and I am not so experienced, I ran it past his owners and they agreed this was the best course of action so I went ahead. I had intended to get the vet out to him when this was done but before I could I was given the ultimatum and was then stuck between a rock and a hard place..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top