Slight weightloss and pale gums?

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noodle_

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Probably should be in vet but more traffic here....

Expensive pet horse has had pale gums for a few weeks now (vet has been out 2/3 weeks ago and commented)...so i was to put her on a vitamin supplement and was reccomended (not by vet) to put her on red cell.

So she has been on that dose daily for approx 2/3 weeks now (same day i got the stuff after vet commented)....

She has also dropped a little weight already (she lives out with her BFForever)!, which is unusual but ive never had her living out before...

shes rugged already in a 140 :o and a jacket (vest)!, shes ok,.... she was showing mild ulcer signs again a few weeks ago (hence vet visit) but since ive had her on a calmer, gone back into a good field and been on red cell shes definately picked up....

*sorry i AM getting to the point...*

I was going to scope her (horse has a history of bad ulcers), this year but costs are ever rising and i couldnt justify a scope as she started to pick up so decided to run her up in Jan instead... (right or wrong?)... she lives out, off work..so no cause for ulcers at all....

Shes on ad-lib hay (well as much as poss - they eat a small bale daily - at £5..but they need...they get...) in their hay hutch and some scattered.... never seems to be enough though as she is very very greedy....gets a meal a day of nuts and haychop....

So.... do i blood test her?? her gums are still quite pale, shes quiet but she always is....or do i try another supplement - again - or ship her back off to horsepital now and find absolutely no ulcers (wouldnt surprise me...) and what else can they test/do for her??


Can someone also explain exactly what a blood test can show up?? liver/kidneys?

or is this the ulcers(?) giving her a hard time, or anemia?


I overreact at the best of times.... and normally end up paying a whopping vet bill.... so any ideas would be appreciated...

and yes - this is the same horse the vet said "give till christmas and we need to make a decision...."

I honestly though she was picking up -lip has stopped wobbling as bad (ulcer sign)



*sigh*
 
If she has got ulcers, then her pale gums could be a sign that she is anaemic ... I believe that Vitamin B is a good supplement for that. You can also give iron, but I understand that you have to be careful with that.

From what I understand, anaemia is a sign of a deeper routed problem ... like ulcers if there is no sign of heavy blood loss from anything else.

I'm sure someone on here will be able to give a more conclusive answer though ... and please don't panic!

Ems
xx
 
Thank :)

she really cannot go for more invasive tests as she is no longer insured for anything in her digestive system.... however i will do whateever within reason feesable if it helps her.

I think i need to check gums again tomorow and call the vet out for bloods?
 
Well, the blood test would confirm for you if it was anaemia, but not sure it would show up the root of the problem ...

I would almost be tempted to phone the vet to ask for advice at this stage of the game ... I am by no means a vet and have not had any equine medical training so wouldn't want to advise you poorly!

If you think the likelihood of ulcers is small, I would ask them what they think about supplementing your horse with Vit B or iron to see if that makes a marked improvement ... anaemic horses are also often quiet in their temperament ...
xxxxx
 
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Thanks :)

she was anaemic a while ago before we realised there was ulcers (i sound so thick but sometimes its easier to write it down as it jogs memories and gets opinions that i wouldnt have thought of!)

so mabey her ulcers are back? :( Shes didnt fully bouce back last time she was showing signs of being anemic...just slightly (on b-sure vitamins)....

I guess im dreading taking her back to horsepital as if shes shown to have ulcers this is the end of the road...shes field kept - if she cant cope with that then what else can i do?
 
maybe her ulcers never fully healed from last time?

I found this online:

"Treatment of gastric ulcers in horses
Medications and changes in management practices are the cornerstones of therapy for equine gastric ulcers. Different medications are used for three purposes: (1) to decrease acid production, (2) to buffer the acid that is produced, and (3) to protect the lining of the stomach from the effects of the acid.

H2 blockers: These are medications that block the action of histamine. Histamine stimulates the production of stomach acid. Example: Cimetidine, ranitidine.
Proton pump inhibitors: These are medications that inhibit the production of acid by the stomach
Buffers: Antacids buffer the action of the stomach acid. Because acid is constantly being produced in the horse, antacids are effective for only a short time (less than an hour) and require large amounts be given. This makes them relatively impractical in the horse, though their use on the day of performance or a stressful event may be beneficial.
Protectants: Certain drugs can block acid from coming into contact with the stomach lining. Unfortunately, these do not appear to be as effective in the esophageal portion of the stomach. Example: Sucralfate.
In addition to medications, changes in management are almost always necessary including:

Increasing the amount of roughage in the diet.
Increasing the number of feedings by increasing the amount of time the horse is actually eating. Putting the horse on pasture would be the best alternative.
Avoiding or decreasing the amount of grain. Use supplements to add the vitamins and minerals, and vegetable oils to add the calories the horse may need.
Giving probiotics to aid in digestion.
Many ulcers in foals heal without treatment. In adults, the clinical signs may improve within 1-2 days of starting treatment, but it takes far longer for the ulcer to actually heal. Be sure to follow your veterinarian's treatment recommendations. If you stop the treatment earlier than your veterinarian suggests, the ulcer may not completely heal."

Might be worth talking to your vet about these things? Also heard that calcium can be good at helping with ulcers - but again, please don't take my word for it and ask your vet!

xxxx
 
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Thanks :)

have spoken (and cried in front of :o ) my vet many times who is frankly as baffled as me.


She was on GG on and off for months until the insurance ran out - and then i tried Omeprazole - all this time she was stabled in the night and livin gout in the day

Now shes out 24/7 with a field companion - no pressure except access to feed/hay/supplements and little grass (as the little shits have trashed my field running round - ) as its wet they have churned the lot up - not happy! so they have a LOT of hay now.... (my bank hate me...)

Will pm you with her blog link - and her history :)
 
vets coming tomorow to run bloods.... and then poss back to horsepital week after rather than waiting longer,,,,

will see what the vet says... as its been a few weeks since we first noticed her pale gums
 
After reading several things on here I put my 'girthy' previously cereal-over-fed (by previously owners) mare onto Aloe vera juice. She now only gets forage/fibre to eat and is much more comfortable. I didn't have her scoped although probably would have done if there had been no improvement. I did give Cider Vinegar for a few days to promote flexibility but the acid in that made her uncomfortable again. Would this be an alternative to GG etc for your horse? I would also take yours off the nuts, and try grass pellets instead.
 
Hi

yes i can take her off the nuts no problem...she dosent get and other sort of cereal either.... she gets hay/chopped hay as a bucket feed.

Shes not improved though much - a tiny bit - but the gums are still pale and shes definatle dropped condition....i do worry about her - shes only 6 :o
 
Going to be saying it to a lot of people because it's that time of year but could be early signs of EAM, might be worth getting muscle enzymes done. Probably isn't but I've already heard of 3 cases this Autumn so it's worth keeping an eye out especially as she's out 24/7.
 
Thanks all :)

Kokopelli - whats that??



Vet has been and bloods have been done which he mentioned Equine Metabolic syndrome may be questionable? one of many things it could be!


Im hoping its something very simple, shes still being scoped but depending on bloods is when that gets done... if nothing significant on bloods then scope asap... if not then im hanging fire and going in novemberish....

Thanks for all the advice- really helps having experience and knowledge from outsiders rather than people who know my horseetc :) :)
 
EAM = Equine Atypical Myopathy (tying up).

I was going to suggest getting bloods and scope done anyway. Sounds like you need peace of mind as well as a diagnosis. For feed, is it feasible to give her Speedibeet or Purabeet (Simple systems version)? Both my ponies don't think much of these, but the upside is that they graze it, rather than gobble it down. The only things they get in the beet is brewers yeast, linseed and slim-chaff to bulk it out a bit more.

Hope the bloods show something fixable. xx
 
One of my mares, who I have had since she was 4 days old so I know her full history, has never ever suffered from weightloss or "ulcers" - then she was looked after for a few months by a so-called top stud (who are no longer in business) and "developed ulcers" leading to weightloss and a vet who decided to gastroguard her almost constantly (well, it is a nice expensive treatment isn't it). I removed her from the stud when I realised the only problems for all my horses were that they were not getting ruddy fed!

I moved them back to their previous home and all three picked up immediately. My mare has never ever had an issue with "ulcers" since, no vet treatment, no weight loss and definitely no ruddy need for gastroguard!

If I was you I would get her blood tested as then you know exactly what is going on (it may be something non stomach related?). Maybe she needs more feed now, two small hard feeds a day, and ad lib hay...that is what mine is on and she does very well. I have never had her scoped as I was already doubting she had anything as severe as this place was saying and lo and behold that was proven when she had no further issues. I do make sure that my mare is never without forage though, so when in the stable, which is fairly rare, she has a mountain of it to keep her busy and happy.
 
Have you considered worms?

My guy who I suspected had ulcers (two years of low quanity / high calorie feeds / balanced vits /min and high fibre and average weight) swapped him to Lucerne (alfalfa) chaff, brewers yeast and oats and a good multi vit / min all balanced thru www.feedxl.com and almost like magic he picked up hadn't even finished the tranistion period.

He manged all summer with only fibre and only need 1.8kg max oats over winter along with ad lib hay to maintain condition.

He lives out 100% and he was hardly covered this winter only for maybe a month max when the weather got really cold.
 
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