Sluggish? Horse just not itself? It could be Laminitis

[Wagtail]

Laminitis is not something that just suddenly happens one summer. It often has been grumbling under the surface for many years. Horses that are shod all round, often have the pain masked by the shoes.

I have found that the first sign of laminitis in both the horses at our yard that are prone to it, is simply a lack of forwardness, or willingness during their schooling. This can happen days, even weeks before a full blown laminitis attack. Looking back over the years, I realise that my mare probably had several attacks of very low grade laminitis. Once, even diagnosed as a viral infection due to the fact that she was breathing very heavily (another sign of laminitis).

I thought I would just highlight this because I know sluggishness is often just put down to feeding or schooling issues, or even boredom. And of course, the weather. How often is it the summer months when horses get this way? And ask yourself, what else also primarily happens in summer?

So, the two horses at our yard are kept completely, or partially barefoot. The gelding has bare hinds and despite being muzzled on the grass, and in the sand for 16 hours a day, he has started to get sluggish, and sure enough, very slightly footy over stones (only on his hinds). We could shoe him behind and he would go completely sound, but we don't, because those bare feet act as a barometer for when he needs to be completely removed from the grass and onto the sand 24/7.

Anyway, that was just my thought for the day.

 

[amandap]

Hear, hear. Fantastic thought for the day.

 

[Wagtail]

Hear, hear. Fantastic thought for the day.

Thank you. I only wish I hadn't learnt it the hard way.

 

[foxy1]

What surprises me is how long horses seem to stay on the edge without tipping in to full blown laminitis.

Completely agree with OP above too.

 

[amandap]

I think they show signs we traditionally recognise if inflammation is very severe or things have got so bad the horse just can't cope/function any more. Many of us have had to learn more subtle signs ourselves sadly. Thank heavens people are sharing their knowledge and experiences so freely. The internet and fora like this have been a huge help.

 

[HashRouge]

This is so true, and it's only recently that I realized that my mare has been struggling with low grade laminitis every summer for the past few years. It was never picked up on by vets, despite her being seen by various different ones from two different practices. It was only when I removed her shoes that I came to realize what the problem was. Her cushings means that she is so sensitive to the sugars in grass that she is a bit "footy" even with her grazing restricted and the optimal feed, so she will shortly have shoes on for the remainder of the summer. But the most important thing for me is that I know now how to keep her healthy and how important it is to watch her grazing and sugar intake, whether or not she has shoes on. I think horse owners really need to be more aware of the early or "low grade" stages of laminitis. I certainly had no idea until recently that it was no coincidence that her "stiffness" during the summer was actually low grade laminitis bubbling away beneath the surface. I'm just lucky that no lasting damage has been done! If it wasn't for HHO and the wonderful Rockley blog, I might never have gained the knowledge to help her, despite various vets being involved with her over the years.

 

[ATrueClassAct]

Thank you for this post Wagtail. Now old bird has had her shoes taken off im watching every step she takes. She is pretty good over stones and all other surfaces. Sadly with both her attacks of lammy she was ridden and full of life the weeks before(v forward going pony) but now without shoes hopefully I can spot anything extra early.

 

[Hen]

Laminitis is not something that just suddenly happens one summer. It often has been grumbling under the surface for many years. Horses that are shod all round, often have the pain masked by the shoes.

I have found that the first sign of laminitis in both the horses at our yard that are prone to it, is simply a lack of forwardness, or willingness during their schooling. This can happen days, even weeks before a full blown laminitis attack. Looking back over the years, I realise that my mare probably had several attacks of very low grade laminitis. Once, even diagnosed as a viral infection due to the fact that she was breathing very heavily (another sign of laminitis).

I thought I would just highlight this because I know sluggishness is often just put down to feeding or schooling issues, or even boredom. And of course, the weather. How often is it the summer months when horses get this way? And ask yourself, what else also primarily happens in summer?

So, the two horses at our yard are kept completely, or partially barefoot. The gelding has bare hinds and despite being muzzled on the grass, and in the sand for 16 hours a day, he has started to get sluggish, and sure enough, very slightly footy over stones (only on his hinds). We could shoe him behind and he would go completely sound, but we don't, because those bare feet act as a barometer for when he needs to be completely removed from the grass and onto the sand 24/7.

Anyway, that was just my thought for the day.

Super post. Exactly what I have found over the last two years with a horse prone to low-grade laminitis. Thanks for the reminder because even with things 'going well' it is just too easy to get complacent.

 

[Wagtail]

What surprises me is how long horses seem to stay on the edge without tipping in to full blown laminitis.

Completely agree with OP above too.

Yes, I am now keeping a close eye on my TB. He has started to be slightly footy, after being rock crunching. I THINK it is due to him just having been trimmed. The farrier was a bit enthusiastic this time around. But I check for pulses every day, just in case.

I think they show signs we traditionally recognise if inflammation is very severe or things have got so bad the horse just can't cope/function any more. Many of us have had to learn more subtle signs ourselves sadly. Thank heavens people are sharing their knowledge and experiences so freely. The internet and fora like this have been a huge help.

And unfortunately most vets don't seem to spot it either.

This is so true, and it's only recently that I realized that my mare has been struggling with low grade laminitis every summer for the past few years. It was never picked up on by vets, despite her being seen by various different ones from two different practices. It was only when I removed her shoes that I came to realize what the problem was. Her cushings means that she is so sensitive to the sugars in grass that she is a bit "footy" even with her grazing restricted and the optimal feed, so she will shortly have shoes on for the remainder of the summer. But the most important thing for me is that I know now how to keep her healthy and how important it is to watch her grazing and sugar intake, whether or not she has shoes on. I think horse owners really need to be more aware of the early or "low grade" stages of laminitis. I certainly had no idea until recently that it was no coincidence that her "stiffness" during the summer was actually low grade laminitis bubbling away beneath the surface. I'm just lucky that no lasting damage has been done! If it wasn't for HHO and the wonderful Rockley blog, I might never have gained the knowledge to help her, despite various vets being involved with her over the years.

I hope she stays sound for you. It is so difficult with a Cushings horse. I used to blame my mare's 'stiffness' on arthritis as her pastern would sometimes swell up. Now I know that this too can be a sign of laminitis.

Thank you for this post Wagtail. Now old bird has had her shoes taken off im watching every step she takes. She is pretty good over stones and all other surfaces. Sadly with both her attacks of lammy she was ridden and full of life the weeks before(v forward going pony) but now without shoes hopefully I can spot anything extra early.

It sounds like she is doing really well, bless her. I do think that keeping the shoes off is the safest option for a horse like her.

Super post. Exactly what I have found over the last two years with a horse prone to low-grade laminitis. Thanks for the reminder because even with things 'going well' it is just too easy to get complacent.

Very true. Even with a horse that has a history of the disease, it is all too easy to get too relaxed about it.

 

[alsxx]

Super post. So true.

My TB used to have bouts of being sluggish and off colour with no real obvious cause. It wasn't until I took his shoes off that I realised the cause was low grade laminitis..... I could write reams and reams but I won't ;-) suffice to say, now with careful management we avoid it.

 

[Wagtail]

Super post. So true.

My TB used to have bouts of being sluggish and off colour with no real obvious cause. It wasn't until I took his shoes off that I realised the cause was low grade laminitis..... I could write reams and reams but I won't ;-) suffice to say, now with careful management we avoid it.

It's amazing how many TBs suffer from the disease. I have owned them for many years and for most of those years, laminitis never crossed my mind as a possible threat.

I think that there are many many more horses suffering from LGL than is ever recognised. As Amandap says, it is only once the horse is so bad that and the hoof so compromised, that they start to show the classic symptoms of the disease.

 

[alsxx]

It's amazing how many TBs suffer from the disease. I have owned them for many years and for most of those years, laminitis never crossed my mind as a possible threat.

I think that there are many many more horses suffering from LGL than is ever recognised. As Amandap says, it is only once the horse is so bad that and the hoof so compromised, that they start to show the classic symptoms of the disease.

Absolutely.....when my TB first came down with true laminitis (although it was relatively mild compared to most cases) my vet was adamant it was down to him not having shoes on - concussion induced laminitis - despite it being mid winter, very mild and wet (hint, the grass was flushing like crazy!) and the ground was soft and squishy and he wasn't in work at that time. I was literally banging my head against the wall as I was watching him get worse following exposure to grass but vet was adamant it wasn't grass induced. I managed him like a true laminitic and it resolved....

I use a different vet now (from the same practice) who has been fabulous, and we've identified that along with ulcers he also suffers from hind-gut acidosis - upset the gut (and too much grass upsets the balance) and you upset his feet......so the true cause in his case we now know is acutally the gut and a symptom for him is LGL. TB's....who'd have 'em

 

[warmbloodcrazy]

I have read this post with real interest.. for years i've been struggling with my horse becoming really lethargic and not willing to go forward in the summer months (you'll see my posts on here), hes 16.3hh and laminitis never crossed my mind at all.. i tried energy supplements and all sorts.. my mums horse has EMS and got laminitis badly last year.. my horse has gone lethargic again and i think a bit foot sore on the stones when riding down the lane.. he'll step on a stone and go ouch and then be fine.. but its something he doesnt usually do. I do check his feet for heat etc after my mums horse having it. I am going to put him in the restricted paddock with my mums horse out of his big summer paddock and see if he improves.. thank you for this post! its real food for thought!

 

[Hedwards]

I do agree with this post totally, but also wanted to add that sometimes there is no warning... my old mare went lame very suddenly on one leg, she had been working better then ever the previous day to finding her lame... it was laminitis in just her offside fore - and took quite a bit of time to diagnose as it was so sudden and so unusual.

 

[Wagtail]

I have read this post with real interest.. for years i've been struggling with my horse becoming really lethargic and not willing to go forward in the summer months (you'll see my posts on here), hes 16.3hh and laminitis never crossed my mind at all.. i tried energy supplements and all sorts.. my mums horse has EMS and got laminitis badly last year.. my horse has gone lethargic again and i think a bit foot sore on the stones when riding down the lane.. he'll step on a stone and go ouch and then be fine.. but its something he doesnt usually do. I do check his feet for heat etc after my mums horse having it. I am going to put him in the restricted paddock with my mums horse out of his big summer paddock and see if he improves.. thank you for this post! its real food for thought!

I'm afraid it does sound like LGL to me. They often do not have heat or pulses when it is low grade. You are doing the right thing. I would actually get him off the grass and on soaked hay entirely for a couple of days if you can? It is easy to do this by building a pen inside the paddock with electric fencing. Then if he is less footy after a couple of days gradually increase his grazing time. I hope you get him sorted. I wish I had known about this years ago and my mare would not be so badly sensitive to sugar as she is now. Once they get proper laminitis, they are super sensitive thereafter. Good luck!

 

[Wagtail]

I do agree with this post totally, but also wanted to add that sometimes there is no warning... my old mare went lame very suddenly on one leg, she had been working better then ever the previous day to finding her lame... it was laminitis in just her offside fore - and took quite a bit of time to diagnose as it was so sudden and so unusual.

This is exactly what happened to my mare when she had her first diagnosed attack of laminitis. She suddenly went lame on her off fore. It was December and so laminitis was not something I was expecting. She had not been lethargic before hand. But she had been lethargic most summers before this, which I believe was a warning sign of things to come and that she was struggling with the sugars in the grass. The lethargy often comes a long time before a full blown attack. And the full blown attack can come out of nowhere.

 

[warmbloodcrazy]

You're right yes i am going to pull him in tonight as soon as i finish work after reading your experiences! I feel certain this has been my problem with him! May even be the reason i've tried writing him off thinking his stifle is playing him up as he'd been fine until recently. So just on rations of soaked hay, and see how he is in a few days.. my mums horse has restricted turn out so thankfully i can turn him out with him over the summer months. Do you think i should give him so bute while hes in too??

I feel happy that i may be getting to the bottom of the summer issues i've had with him.. Its been so frustrating and baffling how my horse completely changes from being forward and happy to a slug in the summer months.. i'm certain my poor boy is sore and unhappy at the moment.. fingers crossed i see some improvement!

Thank you everyone!

 

[CBFan]

Yup! I learnt this last year!

 

[amandap]

Warmbloodcrazy, I wouldn't give bute as you need to see clearly the response to diet change.

 

[warmbloodcrazy]

Ok thank you, I haven't given him any yet but he's in with soaked hay .. Got everything crossed as I feel I'm fighting a losing battle lately felt so upset!

 

[Wagtail]

I agree regarding the no bute. I only give bute when they are noticeably hobbly. Don't be too down about it. If it IS LGL you have caught it very early. He may go on for years without getting a full blown attack. The important thing is that you now have the knowledge to prevent that ever happening.

 

[warmbloodcrazy]

Ok i defo won't give him the bute.. i hate to think of him in pain and that he may have been in previous summers too! He hasn't ever been foot sore before though.. he seems to fit all the signs. I have called the vet to come in but he can't come until Friday.. i will keep him in on soaked hay until then and hope i see an improvement. Should i still call vet in if he does improve? I need blood tests etc i guess to find route cause..?

Thank you for you advise everyone

 

[Wagtail]

Ok i defo won't give him the bute.. i hate to think of him in pain and that he may have been in previous summers too! He hasn't ever been foot sore before though.. he seems to fit all the signs. I have called the vet to come in but he can't come until Friday.. i will keep him in on soaked hay until then and hope i see an improvement. Should i still call vet in if he does improve? I need blood tests etc i guess to find route cause..?

Thank you for you advise everyone

IME vets do not tend to diagnose laminitis unless the horse has obvious signs, or has had the disease before, so just be prepared for the vet to suggest other causes. If he improves with the diet and box rest, then it may still be worth having the vet come and do bloods to check for Cushings or AMS. At least then you can address the cause.

 

[amandap]

Try not to be too down warmbloodcrazy, if sugar sensitivity turns out to be a factor, you will be transioning into another world yourself, not just your horse. It takes time to get to the bottom of things sometimes and time to get your head round it all. x

 

[warmbloodcrazy]

Thanks Wagtail, i'll see how i get on over the next few days! Fingers crossed i see an improvement!

 

[Northern Hare]

Great post thanks!

My horse (TBxHann 21yo) has just been diagnosed with cushings. I had him tested because he had become slightly footy. His ACTH was 77 (11 last year). I have reduced his grazing to overnight only (he was out 24/7 from mid-April).

He is fed soaked hay and I have changed his feed to Hi-Fi Molasses Free and Fast Fibre.

When I asked my vet if I should bring him in off the grass for longer (he shares his smallish paddock with two others), the vet said that laminitis associated with Cushings is as a result of the hormonal imbalances and not as a result of the grass - and suggested that I could turn him back out 24/7.

What are your thoughts on this - I'm just so concerned that it might tip the balance and trigger full-blown laminitis? He is no longer footy since being off the grass during the day.

 

[Wagtail]

Great post thanks!

My horse (TBxHann 21yo) has just been diagnosed with cushings. I had him tested because he had become slightly footy. His ACTH was 77 (11 last year). I have reduced his grazing to overnight only (he was out 24/7 from mid-April).

He is fed soaked hay and I have changed his feed to Hi-Fi Molasses Free and Fast Fibre.

When I asked my vet if I should bring him in off the grass for longer (he shares his smallish paddock with two others), the vet said that laminitis associated with Cushings is as a result of the hormonal imbalances and not as a result of the grass - and suggested that I could turn him back out 24/7.

What are your thoughts on this - I'm just so concerned that it might tip the balance and trigger full-blown laminitis? He is no longer footy since being off the grass during the day.

I think your vet is wrong. Horses are predisposed to laminitis by Cushings. However, IME it is feed which actually tips the balance. My mare is actually worse in the winter if I give her slightly too much forage. If we have had rain and the grass has flushed, then even just 8 hours out in a grazing muzzle is enough to spark a laminitis attack.

 

[Northern Hare]

I think your vet is wrong. Horses are predisposed to laminitis by Cushings. However, IME it is feed which actually tips the balance. My mare is actually worse in the winter if I give her slightly too much forage. If we have had rain and the grass has flushed, then even just 8 hours out in a grazing muzzle is enough to spark a laminitis attack.

Hi Wagtail - sorry for the late response, but many thanks for your feedback! I have to say that was my understanding as well - which is why I have carried on with him being in during the day and out over night for a shortish period.

Can I ask - does your horse have Cushings as well - if so, do you give him/her Prascend? The vet agreed to wait for a few weeks before retesting and then maybe start with Prascend.

 

[Wagtail]

Hi Wagtail - sorry for the late response, but many thanks for your feedback! I have to say that was my understanding as well - which is why I have carried on with him being in during the day and out over night for a shortish period.

Can I ask - does your horse have Cushings as well - if so, do you give him/her Prascend? The vet agreed to wait for a few weeks before retesting and then maybe start with Prascend.

Yes, she does. She is on one prascend a day and that has so far kept it under control. I decided to treat her with prascend, even though the vet said she was only borderline, because she had laminitis and I wanted to stack the odds in her favour as much as possible. As it happens, despite her being nice and lean, and being treated in every way like a laminitic, she is still footsore at the moment. I think that she has become so sensitive to even the smallest amount of sugar in the grass. I firmly believe this was because I missed all the signs in her early years because they were so subtle. Had I recognised them as LGL and treated her as a laminitic, I feel certain I would not be having such problems keeping her sound right now. It's a bit like people who spend years over eating and getting away with it, and then suddenly develop diabetes.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Bumping this very old thread as I think its very relevant!

Thanks for this post Wagtail. First thing I thought when today my cob who is usually so off the leg, became backwards thinking and dull. Even my partner said to me "its the weather!" even though I took her out at 9am. She'd already been brought off the grazing but I will now change her hay to soaked and slowly start getting any excess weight off her (of which there is plenty as she hasn't been worked hard enough May->June.