Small claims court

[Nettiefluff]

Has anyone been through the small claims court for returning a recently bought horse for a refund? I'm getting no where with the seller and the person that sold the horse on his behalf. Have exchanged phone calls, emails, messages and I've sent a letter signed for. I've done everything that he's suggested, apart from return the horse to the person that sold the horse for them to sort out, at my expense.

 

[Kaylum]

If you join the dodgy dealers site on facebook they have some people on there that will give you advice. Also have you had an expert diagnose the problem.

 

[Fred66]

Was the seller a dealer ? It sounds as though not as dealers don't normally sell through a 1/3 party. You don't say why you want a refund but this may turn out to be a complex case as unless you have proof that they misrepresented the facts in the advert / sales pitch, then with a private sale you may not actually have a case in law.

 

[Nettiefluff]

Thanks I will have a look. It's difficult to say what the problem is, possibly a number of things has contributed, but mainly moving to a new home. But it's how the horse has reacted that is my issue.

 

[Nettiefluff]

It wasn't a private sale, as the seller is a business: the breeder (horse is 6 yrs). The yard I bought from is also a business. I want a refund because I want to return the horse, she is not suitable for me, I've had two bad falls in the first week of her being with me and currently am not prepared to get back on. So I have a horse I cannot ride.

 

[JillA]

I have, although not about a horse. The thing is you not only have to be in the right, you have to have the evidence to prove you are in the right. Sellers liability, any contracts, verbal or in writing, that you were mis-sold (in other words nothing you have done since has contributed to the problem ) vetting including any blood tests and bear in mind most judges don't have a clue about the horse world so you have to compile evidence as though the horse was a commodity of any kind. The defence would be that you have contributed to the problem by putting the horse in situations he wasn't able to cope with - not saying you have but the defendant probably will

 

[stormox]

Have you only had the horse a week? I think any horse would take longer than that to come to terms with everything being new, especially one who has lived with his breeder all his 6 years and has known nothing else

 

[alainax]

Have they agreed a refund if you return it? ( as you mentioned they want you to return it at your expense)

 

[Nettiefluff]

He hasn't agreed a refund, he's said to send the horse to the agent for them to sort out, at my expense. He hasn't agreed to have her back.

 

[Nettiefluff]

She hasn't lived with the breeder all her life, he has sent her away (to the agent) to be backed, schooled and sold. I realise a horse needs to settle in to a new yard and it probably has just blown her mind. I can cope with a young horse that isn't that easy, this is my third, what I can't cope with is her 'exploding' and a split second later I'm on the floor. I was sold a nice mannered young horse that was suitable for me to school and compete myself, which she isn't. It may need that I have to work through this, but it's always going to be in the back of my mind that she can react like this.

 

[galaxy]

are you a bhs gold member? I would call them for legal advise.

 

[Nettiefluff]

I joined the BHS so I could access the helpline, when I called them they didn't tell me anything I didn't already know, but they did say that they couldn't say I had a claim without looking at all the evidence, which would cost me. I'd already spoken to two solicitors which had quoted me between £600 and £1000 just for advice.

 

[stormox]

How long was the horse with the backer/schooler/agent? Why did they wait til the horse was 6? That seems a bit fishy. Or maybe they didnt have him long enough to do a thorough job. I have been through a small claims process, i did get the money but it was a much more straightforward case than yours, just me v dealer. I returned the horse then went to court for the money. Still took over a year.

 

[honetpot]

I am too old and fat to back my horses/ponies and for the last three times I have sent them away to be broken, (some have been 5&6) and whilst being there they have been sold. I am not a dealer and really I have just paid for the breaking services. The people I have sold to have known they have been buying a just backed youngster, and as I have said in another post I think it takes at least two years for a horse to be basically trained properly so if you are buying just backed you are going to have to put in the work, which often includes being dumped from time to time.
When my kids were younger, we would buy them just backed and put in the work, I couldn't afford to buy a made animal for my children. It sounds that really you needed to buy a horse further on in its training.

 

[Nettiefluff]

I was told that the breeder had a backlog of horses so hadn't got round to sending them off to be broken in. Although she has some big scars on her back legs which are still scabby, I was told that she'd done them as yearling but everyone that's seen them think they're a lot newer so that could explain why she was broken in late. She was there since end of last year so at least 6 months. So I was thinking she'd be over any young horse antics, obviously not, her reaction was more like a horse than had never had a saddle and rider on her back, but not every time I'd ridden her.

 

[AmyMay]

What did the agent say they'd done with her?

Was she 5 stage vetted?

 

[Nettiefluff]

I have had young horses previously, one I had from a foal until he was 6, I did everything with him apart from sit on him for the first time, he went away for that, and came back so I have experience of a just backed horse. My other horse was 4 when I bought her, only been broken in 6 months, so it's not something I haven't done before. Neither were easy but they didn't do anything like this. I'm just trying to decide whether it's worth doing a claim or just crack on and pay someone to help me. It's just now that this has happened I don't particularly want to get back on! I've been advised by three professional riders/trainers (polo and dressage) to send her back, right from the start. So that's what I've been trying to, but getting no where.

 

[Nettiefluff]

What did the agent say they'd done with her?

Was she 5 stage vetted?

Yes she had a 5 stage vetting, bloods taking, I haven't had them tested but been advised to. The agent said they'd schooled, hacked and done a bit of jumping. They send she'd not done anything like this before. I don't disbelieve them, but they knew she was sharp, and probably greener than what I was after. I said I didn't want anything too green and wanted to be able to go out and compete at Prelim.

 

[honetpot]

Did you see her ridden and try her yourself before you bought it and have a full vetting with blood taken?
If its a mare they are much more likely to have become attached to where they were kept and tend to be a bit more stroppy. Anything I have bought in I treat as if its never been ridden, then they and you get no nasty surprises, which most of the time seems over cautious but it works for me.

 

[AmyMay]

How much turn out is she having?

You've done the usual back check and had a saddle properly fitted?

What's her breeding?

 

[stormox]

I have done a lot of breaking and schooling and think it takes 6-9 months regular work before a horse becomes reliable. But even then you have to be prepared for setbacks especially with naturally sharp ones.
I think you would have difficulty finding a reason for sending the horse back unless there is proven to be something wrong with it.

 

[Fred66]

I think you would have difficulty finding a reason for sending the horse back unless there is proven to be something wrong with it.

This

From what you have written you have bought a 6yr old horse with some scarring from previous injury that has not long been backed and done very little.

What you expected and what you got are not the same but it doesn't sound as though you were missold.

Your best bet is to send it away for schooling and then after 2-3 weeks start going up yourself and alternate them schooling it with you riding it under their supervision.

If you still feel the same then sell it.

If you go down the small claims route then you are going to be at least 2-3 months before your case is heard and then if it doesn't go your way you are into the winter and having to start.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Has anyone been through the small claims court for returning a recently bought horse for a refund? I'm getting no where with the seller and the person that sold the horse on his behalf. Have exchanged phone calls, emails, messages and I've sent a letter signed for. I've done everything that he's suggested, apart from return the horse to the person that sold the horse for them to sort out, at my expense.

No but taken a livery to small claims as she deliberately cancelled her cheque. Now another has cancelled it because her sons car is damaged. (how is this my fault)

 

[stormox]

This

From what you have written you have bought a 6yr old horse with some scarring from previous injury that has not long been backed and done very little.



Your best bet is to send it away for schooling and then after 2-3 weeks start going up yourself and alternate them schooling it with you riding it under their supervision.

If you still feel the same then sell it.

If you go down the small claims route then you are going to be at least 2-3 months before your case is heard and then if it doesn't go your way you are into the winter and having to start.

Yes Id say do this too. I think it would be more than 2-3 months before small claims hearing if the seller is slow returning his forms. Mine took 8 months.

 

[JillA]

I feel sorry for the horse - he or she is clearly far from happy

 

[AmyMay]

I feel sorry for the horse - he or she is clearly far from happy

What evidence is there of that?

 

[Ceifer]

I personally would get a vet out. I know the horse was vettted but I’d want to rule out pain.

If it is really explosive I wouldn’t want anybody getting on it to school/ training.

 

[Kaylum]

As someone else has said did you see the horse being ridden and did you ride it? Did you get a vet that wasnt the sellers vet? Did you attend the vetting?

 

[zaminda]

A friend of mine did. He bought the horse as quiet but needing bringing on, and it turned out to be an utter nut job, throwing him into a brick wall when the saddler legged him up.
He had vet reports, (because they vets were worried the vet had missed something, )she was insured so it was all covered.
He also had several independent expert witness try and do something with her, including sending her away.
The first time the woman didn't turn up, then judge asked him if he wanted to resubmit including a claim for damages, as he broke his wrist.
Seller turned up the second time, and was told to take the horse back.
He ended up returning it himself because he wanted shot of the wretched thing, and giving her the headcollar so he didn't have to hang around!

 

[blitznbobs]

Tbh from what you've said , you won't win your case if you take it to court... if that is the evidence, I (and I'm a judicial officer) would think it's your word against theirs . And you've to,d me that it's just backed... and that they said 'it'd never done it before ' and both these facts would be against you... a just backed horse is an unpredictable thing... and I would class 6 months ago as ' just backed' btw, and if they had never seen that reaction they couldn't tell you about it - so no misrepresentation. On a horsey front, that sounds like a pain reaction... get the vet out and get its back checked, then get the long reins out (and a pro if you are scared) and see what happens on the long reins - if it explodes you are out of the way and if it doesn't it adds weight to the pain idea.