sneaky livery

I think for £40 a week stable/grazing turnout/bring in changing rugs being there for vet farrier all hard feed haylage worming programme is a pretty good deal and as for being rude am never to my clients and dont think I have been on here
 
she chooses to muck out herself as she provides the bedding and wants to maximise bedding liveries are informed on initial enquiry that I provide either basic mix or nuts depending on preference (however it is not a cheap economy feed as I feed my horses on the same feed and do 1 and 3 DE's) plus a chop
 
Calm down blimmey I don't think yeeharider is overpriced if all feed and turning out bringing in is included yards round here charge £2 per put out and £2 per bring in and changing rugs so for 7 days that £14 plus hard feed and hay/hayledge stable, water, light. DIY around here with those things done would be around £50 p.w
 
I have to agree with Gingerwitch on the communication skills aspect. No one ever thinks they are being rude, or defensive, they just dont see it at the time.

But this is your "friend", you refer to her as a sneaky livery - rude for starters.
When those on here have suggested a breakdown in communication between the two of you, you go straight down the defensive line of I think I'm fair on costs etc - which is really irrelevant to the specific issue.

This suggest to me, that your "friend" feels they cant approach you and speak to you about the feed issue.
I've not read once in the whole thread where you have said in response to others, oh yeah maybe she feels her horse isn't getting enough grub, or Mmm yeah its possible she doesn't feel she's stealing, it might just be a breakdown in communication.

You dont even know for certain she is taking food, or on what grounds, have already decided she's sneaky without even talking to her specifically about the food being taken.

Finally, the fact that you haven't talked to her says it all about communication between the two of you.
 
thankyou didnt think my prices were OTT especially as we have good facilities indoor/outdoor floodlit school full set sj all weather gallops riding field with xc jumps all in price
 
Flowerlady - this issue isn't if YO is value for money - thats a tangent in response to others suggesting that the original is a breakdown in communication between YO and livery.
I guess u gotta read the whole lot, but its getting lengthy lol x
 
if you read above I chat to horses owner at least 3 times a week we speak about all issues work/horse related I help her regularly with her jumping and we go out jumping together never any charge this is why I look on her as a friend
 
Part livery here is: stable, feeding, rug change, turnout/bringing in NO mucking out, feed, bedding or hay inc is £36 a week, so £40 is not expensive if it incs feed
confused.gif


I would either speak to her or leave a note on the feed bins.

There is a saying: you don't bite the hand that feeds you, she should ask before she takes, if she wants more of something she should pay for it.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Flowerlady - this issue isn't if YO is value for money - thats a tangent in response to others suggesting that the original is a breakdown in communication between YO and livery.
I guess u gotta read the whole lot, but its getting lengthy lol x

[/ QUOTE ]

I did. Yes there probably is a communication breakdown but then again if someone has a little moan about their YO you don't jump on them. The poster was asking if we thought there might be a problem so there is no need to be so sanctimonious is there
confused.gif
if the livery is a sort of friend (not best friend) I assume the poster just wanted to know from another prospective. Also someone did say the poster was expensive and did no mucking out so I could ask what's that got to do with the price of fish?????????????
wink.gif
 
Communication is so important in every aspect of life I do believe (Well, from my life, and in particular, livery experiences!
laugh.gif
wink.gif
)

I can't believe people go to the lengths of making traps to catch people taking feed!
shocked.gif
Why not just discuss the issue openly. Might be difficult but saves all the cloak and dagger stuff.

I am not sure if this relates directly to this particular post, but I am a full livery, and over the yrs I have had SOOO many problems with getting properly ad-lib forage for my horse when he is stabled (I don't mind during the hrs when he is out unless it is freezing). Where I am now, I have a decent arrangement around this and that is such a relief. I am afraid it is one thing that I am religious about. It could be that your livery is concerned about forage and thinks she isn't getting enough so tops up with hard feed. Only a suggestion, I guess there might be a number of reasons.
 
So she has same as you Hermangerman but provides her own bedding and pays more ? But that really isn't the issue.

The issue is her "friend" being a sneaky livery for possibly taking extra food for her horse and food is included in her livery. The livery hasn't been asked, its more than feasible she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong when hard feed is included - communication would establish this to be the case or not.

When this is suggested or other differing opinions, we're off on a tangent about value for money.........

When I said so u include 5kg of food in livery, horse gets 2 in summer, 7kg in winter, so what it balances out, I got a very blunt reply asking how I worked out 2kg in summer and had to quote where YO had stated that, but no response on that !

That an other replies led 2 of us to suggest that their is a communication problem, I personally believe the livery feels they cant talk or approach YO on this issue, prob because they'll be shot down with a lecture on what good value the yard is.

I firstly have no idea if its value for money as it varies all over the UK, hence I have not commented on that issue.
 
Anyway my bed is calling, bottom line is a chat over a cuppa would probably solve this issue, rather than things going so far that YO now questions whether they should be friends, and livery not being happy and getting her horse extra feed so is probably feeling the same way.

A cuppa and a natter works wonders x
 
how can you summise that she cant talk to me about her horses feed when she confides in me about her love life /work stresses and strains and the fact that her horse is too FAT she knows her horse is now eating the maximum I can provide on livery ie 5kg/day and is also giving 1.5kg in a treat ball if she wants her horse to have more she will have to provide the feed which I will happily give her horse but she has given no indication of this
 
I agree with misseyme - i think by heading your post as "sneaky livery" has set the scene for a few of us - and to be frank if i found out you were posting this about me i would leave your yard a.s.a.p.

I hate this about horse yards - the old you should be grateful that we do x, y and z for the pittance we charge. Well if you feel like that put your prices up and give us liveries a choice on what we pay - do not make people feel that they are "stealing" from you. If you went to a resturant would you expect the owner to come out and bleat about what a fantastic service you get for the money if you are on a "self serve" basis and happen to have helped youself to a few to many potatoes ?

Just talk to the poor woman and yes you probably are a lot more intimidating face to face than you think - i feel sorry for a person who is scared to tell you the truth as i think i can imagine the "you ungrateful livery lecture" coming along - by the way how big is your livery contract - and by the sounds of it you need a degree to work out what you can/cant have as standard - cos i cant follow what the liveries can/cant have !
 
quite easily, her love life, stresses etc are about her, just chat and gossip, they are actually the easiest things in the world to talk about.

But in this case, she's paying you for a service, and you are providing one, you think she is stealing food, and you have said on several occassions she's not said she's unhappy with her horses feed - its perfectly logical to summise she feels she cant talk to you on this issue, if she could she would have done so surely ????

Is there another logical explanation for her not speaking to you? What possible reasons could there be ?

Ok I agree as I think I said towards the beginning of the post, their are old fashioned thieves - hell they will steal for the sake of stealing, but if your livery was like this, you would have known a long time ago - I have this opinion as you state you are friends and do quite a lot together.
 
OK will come clean I see this person as a friend and have been there for her through a lot this summer I have helped out as much as I can she has been in sh!t with her job and was going to sell her horse around may time ATM she has not paid any livery for 9 weeks I dont want to hassle her as I know she has a lot on her plate but hate the goings on behind my back think I am the victim here
 
The goings on behind your back ?????????????

She's feeding her horse more that all, and probably doesn't think she's doing anything wrong as hard feed is included in her livery.

Its a communication issue, easily sorted.


I really hope your friend isn't on this forum, can you imagine how she would feel, hell she's gonna know u mean her after your last post.

Its nice you have been there for her as a friend, but the more I read of what you write, the more I dont understand how you refer to your friend as a "sneaky livery", and why you haven't just sat down and spoken to her specifically about the issue.
Its what friends do.

I have become friends with my YO as our daughters both have ponies and they do a lot together, not just pony stuff but sleep overs also etc, and we also get on really great, I would hate to think that we couldn't just talk an issue through like this, it would be a sad state of affairs considering we are friends.
 
I think you need to lock your feed bins/room, and talk to the livery re. the horse's weight and its feed and how best to manage the two.

As to charges, just for comparison, I have three horses at DIY livery. I pay £25 p/wk for a stable and grazing; £1 per horse bring in for five days a week (no option to have any services at the weekends); £3 per bale of straw (one horse deep littered and it takes five bales a week); hay or haylage at £30 per round. Facilities consists of a nice 20x40 school with two lights (no charge for use of lights); a jumping field in the summer, which has a £5 charge per horse per hour.
 
I think you need to speak to her as if it is not stated that the liveries can help themselves to feed then they shouldn't be doing so. The odd occasion that they think their horse needs a bit more then fine, they should mention to you asap afterwards so you know why the feed bin went down but not just taking without saying. When I was once on full livery I sometimes topped up the hay on a night if mine was close to running out as they left at 5pm with just one hay net and by 9 it was gone. I did check first though that this was o.k to do.

As for calling a horse greedy (I know you didn't, she did) I wouldn't be bothered at all...mine is a greedy pig and my mare is a moody piece of work
smile.gif
I think most owners don't view their horses through rose tinted glasses.

And although not the subject I'll comment anyway, I think your livery charges are very generous. I pay £23 for stable and grazing, £1.50 for turn out/rug changed (double if need bringing in too) and £1 every half hour in menege. I buy own bedding and hay/hard feed. Works out more expensive than yours! I do love my yard though and wouldn't move it was even more money
smile.gif
 
there is no issues about her horse she will not say there are any issues god knows I have tried to talk about things she just seems to think its ok to do as she likes when i am not there
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think for £40 a week stable/grazing turnout/bring in changing rugs being there for vet farrier all hard feed haylage worming programme is a pretty good deal and as for being rude am never to my clients and dont think I have been on here

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually think £40 a week is fair for this. At my last yard, I paid £18 a week livery and then had to pay £1 for bring in or turnout, £1 for change of rug, 50p for feet to be picked out, 30p each for putting feed in, putting a bucket of water in or putting a hay net in that I had made up. I didn't get hard feed, bedding or hay in with my livery. It was 11 miles away so I had the horses done for me once a day during the week (did myself at weekends), and livery with the extras cost me a minimum of £32 per horse per week, and that was with me going once a day weekdays and twice a day weekends, doing the water and putting hay in myself! It didn't include times when Ineeded them done at both ends of the day due to my shifts or because of the snow or whatever other thing cropped up. It also didn't include hay, bedding or feed. I think £40 a week is perfectly reasonable for stable, grazing, hay, bedding, feed and assisted livery! It depends on your area as well!

I'd lock all the feed bins and approach her to chat to her about the issue. If she feels her horse needs more then negotiate with her over this but still lock the bins!
 
[ QUOTE ]
So she has same as you Hermangerman but provides her own bedding and pays more ? But that really isn't the issue.



[/ QUOTE ]

HG said that NO mucking out, hay or bedding (or feed) is included in the £36!

Blimey, last year when I looked at part livery for my boy, it was £85 a week for bringing in and turning out every day, mucking out, hay nets made up and put in, water in, feeds made up and put in, rugs changed, feet done. Feed was included but extra for supplements, hay was included but extra for haylage, straw was included but extra for shavings. You had to pay extra for her to stand with the vet or farrier, buy your wormers etc. £40 is NOT a large amount!
 
I dont think talking as a YO to a livery on how to manage their horses weight is a good idea, its not a YO's place to intervene or interfere with how a liveries horse is looked after - the exeption being if the animal is being abused or neglected, then forget YO, its everyones place to open thier mouths.

Ok to talk to her as a friend though about her horse.

This may be where the root of the problem lays, you are YO and livery, and have become friends - this could well have changed the boundaries ??????
Maybe not to you, although it probably has in some way, but maybe has to her ???????

I know as I became friends with my YO, the boundaries changed. eg. she brings my horses in and doesn't charge extra, but the rest get charged, but then if its raining in afternoon, I bring hers in also. If she runs out of something, she'll just use mine and vica versa.

I think what has narked a few on here is quite simple, you have judged and condemmed this woman, your friend and yet you haven't actually sat down and said look, I've noticed the food going down after all others have gone, have u been feeding your horse more? If you weren't happy, why didn't you just say, I thought we were friends etc etc.........think u get my point.
As her friend, you should have firstly given her the benefit of doubt, ie maybe she doesn't feel she's done anything wrong as hard feed is included in livery costs.

This woman is your friend, your friends should always be given the benefit of doubt until you reach a point whereby you have 100 facts and then if right, the disappointment then kicks in x
 
Lankydingdongmerrily,

Please go back and read again...........
I have not once said the YO is unreasonable on costs, if you read what you quote you will notice a question mark on the end, I was askin a question. I also go on to say that really isn't the issue.

And its not the issue, the issue is the YO's friend taking food for her horse, and whether its being done innocently by livery as hard feed is included, or as YO puts it, she's a sneaky livery and is stealing.

I'll state again, I've no idea if this is value, I dont even know where in UK this yard is, and I know one thing for sure, livery fees vary wildly across the UK. I pay 45.00 a week for stable, straw, haylage. Horse rugged on morning and turned out 5 days a week, its the going rate up in my part of bonny scotland.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think talking as a YO to a livery on how to manage their horses weight is a good idea, its not a YO's place to intervene or interfere with how a liveries horse is looked after - the exeption being if the animal is being abused or neglected, then forget YO, its everyones place to open thier mouths.
<font color="blue">Actually, if a livery is feeling that the YO is not giving enough feed to their horse in order to maintain a decent weight, then yes, it is a YO issue. Negotiation is needed. It is not necessarily the YO's job to approach the livery about the weight of a horse (unless there is a welfare issue), however, where a livery is taking extra food (on top of what is seen as fair usage by the YO) then discussions and negotiations need to be had. Ie, what is the problem? (is the horse dropping weight or is he just not satisfied with what he gets?). TBH I'd also want to be discussing the fact that 5kg ovr 2 feeds = 2.5kg a feed which is plenty enough for a horse to be digesting in one go after exercise especially! </font>
Ok to talk to her as a friend though about her horse.

This may be where the root of the problem lays, you are YO and livery, and have become friends - this could well have changed the boundaries ??????
<font color="blue">What's that got to do with it?
confused.gif
The YO here feels that her system is being abused. 5kg of feed a day is very generous, and while most good doers (like one of mine) would eat probably about half a kg max of feed a day, I'd think 5kg is plenty for the less good doing horses (my warmblood drops weight really quickly. He gets 1kg speedibeet a day, 600-1200g Alfa A, his supplements, ad lib hay and 3 slices of haylage! So yes, I'd want to know why this horse needed more than 5kg of fairly decent energy feed, and if there was good enough reason I'd relent... but as a YO trying to make a living, or at least a small one, you have to draw the line somewhere! It has nothing to do with whether they are friends or not! </font>

I think what has narked a few on here is quite simple, you have judged and condemmed this woman, your friend and yet you haven't actually sat down and said look, I've noticed the food going down after all others have gone, have u been feeding your horse more? If you weren't happy, why didn't you just say, I thought we were friends etc etc.........think u get my point.
As her friend, you should have firstly given her the benefit of doubt, ie maybe she doesn't feel she's done anything wrong as hard feed is included in livery costs.

<font color="blue"> Sounds to me like the livery has been given the benefit of the doubt, and after 9 weeks of not paying livery this YO has had enough and is asking for advice. Some of us have advised her to chat to the livery, which I guess she will do. </font>


[/ QUOTE ]
 
I will answer your question yard is in yorkshire and by other yards around us is good value dont nit pick about putting horses out weekends bringing in etc am here so wont see anything in/out on their own
 
Lankydingdongmerrily

You have just said clearly: It is not necessarily the YO's job to approach the livery about the weight of a horse (unless there is a welfare issue) - exactly what i have said but i used the words abuse and neglect - dont be so pedantic !!!

Also you state: however, where a livery is taking extra food (on top of what is seen as fair usage by the YO) then discussions and negotiations need to be had -go back and read, if i go back, i'd be very very surprised indeed if i can't find 20 places where i have said speak to your livery, talk to them............does that not mean have a discussion ???????

As for YO and livery becoming friends and my suggesting that it has changed boundaries and you asking what has that got to do with it.........ever heard the saying dont mix business with pleasure, its common world wide, for one reason and one reason only - it confuses the boundaries of business. I am not saying its wrong, I suggested it as a possibility.

I've no problem with anyone disagreeing with what i say, i respect others opinions, but if you're gonna quote me, pick me up on stuff - at least go and read what I've written.

My only critical point of this YO is if this livery is a friend, then why isn't she talking to her about this specific issue, why has she judged and condemmed prior to talking to her friend, why even is she discussing it on here.
Would you appreciate you friends discussing you on a public forum in a derogatory mannor? I suspect not, u most likely expect a little more of your friends dont u? and if she's on this forum, she's sure gonna know this thread is about her - real nice for a friend to read !

I do however see where you're also coming from, because I've read properly what u've written. Comment on what I say all you like, but please read it first, and I've posted god knows how many times on this thread, which if you've read back you will see.

Anyway, to the person who originally raised this issue, I wish you the best of luck, I hope you get this resolved and you dont lose a friend over it, friends are hard to find x
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top