Snide comments, are they right?

Marie1

Marie1

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My boy is 17.2hh and VERY strong, can be schooled in a snaffle but hacking or hunting or jumping he has an american gag with a kineton noseband.. This works well for him, I have gentle hands and so I thought it was fine..

However I have seen a lot that this noseband should only be used with a snaffle? And have had some snidey comments about it from other liveries, or people at shows. What do you think?
 
I used to ride my mare in a kineton noseband too, she was an ex racehorse.

I say if it works for you and your horse, you should not worry about what anyone else thinks!

There will always be those who think you are not doing it right, or not doing it the way in which they would. I say ignore and carry on, be flattered that they are looking closely enough to worry about it!
 
Take no notice - I used to ride a very strong horse in a roller gag with a kineton noseband, I'm all for using a mild snaffle with a caveson nose band & no martingale (which is all the tack I've used on my last few horses)

But some horses need more to be safe, maybe the experts would like to ride your horse & show you how it's done!

I made the same offer to people who decided they knew better than me about the above horse, funnily enough I had no takers.
 
turkana said:
Take no notice - I used to ride a very strong horse in a roller gag with a kineton noseband, I'm all for using a mild snaffle with a caveson nose band & no martingale (which is all the tack I've used on my last few horses)

But some horses need more to be safe, maybe the experts would like to ride your horse & show you how it's done!

I made the same offer to people who decided they knew better than me about the above horse, funnily enough I had no takers.
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Absolutely this! I've had people comment on tack setups in the past and they sharp back off and quiet down if you ask them to put their comments into practice. It's different when it's their own neck on the line for the sake of a principle.
 
Ignore the comments!! My 15hh mare was the strongest horse I've ever ridden and her owner before me who used to be on the British event team in the 80's said she was the strongest horse she'd ever ridden and she's ridden more horses than I've had hot dinners. You use whatever brakes work because you know that they work and therefore you are safe.
 
If it works for you, and it also sounds like you're a caring owner who questions yourself and tries to do the best for your horse, then I wouldn't worry. Do you ride with double reins on the gag so you can use snaffle ring when possible?
 
I'm struggling to get my head round how the combination works together. Not a snide comment, just a "does not compute" in my head, not that I have ever tried or seen that combination. Would be interesting to see a photo/video of it in action.
 
I'm struggling to see how it works too. I have no personal experience of either but just thinking through the action of an American gag, when you pull on the rein does it not pull the shank round to apply poll pressure? Therefore there is not much movement of the mouthpiece itself (apart from rotational) so the kineton would not really be engaged

I could have that totally wrong. Again, not being snide just can't get the image

Maybe some photos would help
 
Copy and pasted from internet -
Description-The Kineton noseband is a severe noseband which derives its name from its designer, a Mr Puckle of Kineton. Metal loops pass under the bit so that when a contact is taken up strong pressure is brought to bear on both the nose and the bit.* This encourages the horse to lower his head. Take care not to fit this noseband too low.******
 
Not a combination I would want to use, but hell, the general thoughts on the forum are positive so go for it. Who am I to argue.
 
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...a=X&ei=4kVgUsKjBoOY0AWuoYCYCw&ved=0CDoQ9QEwBQ

***didnt look hard enough at the photo, this is the bit that I have with the kineton http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...i=eEdgUv3_BYfC0QWj3oC4Cg&ved=0CDIQ9QEwAQ*****

I don't know how to add an actual photo of him but this is the same set up on another horse..
It exerts pressure on his poll and his nose if I have it correctly worked out in my head..

Loving the suggestions to let them have a go! If I sent them off on a hack with him in a snaffle I would never see them again!! Not that I would mind!
 
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that's not an american gag though, as no sliding action- which is what would likely limit the affect a kineton could have as limited direct pull back compared to a plain snaffle say.
 
ester said:
that's not an american gag though, as no sliding action- which is what would likely limit the affect a kineton could have as limited direct pull back compared to a plain snaffle say.
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Sorry my mistake, I didnt look hard enough at the photo, I have no edited my comment with a photo of the bit I am currently using
 
my cousin had a really, REALLY strong cob who was ridden in a Swales pelham with a Kineton - only way to stop the beggar out hunting!!
 
I agree - if it works for you then carry on.
But, I would highly recommend this guy: http://www.msjump.co.uk/ and his "Hold your horses" sessions. He worked wonders with my horse (or probably me!) in just one session. I'm planning on having some more if I can just because I enjoyed it so much and had such good results. I've gone from refusing to hack in a group of more than 3 to doing fun rides (not sure I'll ever be brave enough for hunting!) and would even have done the Badminton ride this years if I wasn't working. I still have the waterford 3 ring gag, but I just ride on the snaffle rein unless I need the emergency brakes!
 
Do I like the combination? No.

Do I think it is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it? Yes.

Safety first. I too would offer the ride to anyone who felt it appropriate to question you on it, but in a genuine way, not as a snappy or sarcastic retort.

People are only saying it because they don't want your horse to be in pain or under pressure, so I wouldn't be annoyed or angry.
 
GG

I have ridden in a similar combination & I didn't like doing it either but it was only used for cross country.

For steady hacks he wore a snaffle with no martingale & a caveson noseband, for faster work he wore a vulcanite pelham or egbutt snaffle gag with martingale, for show jumping he wore the eggbutt snaffle gag, martingale & drop noseband, so he had a different bit for each thing that he did.

I tried to keep things as simple as possible where I could but he was so strong cross country I even struggled to hold in that combination but after trying many different bits & nosebands that was the only way to have a bit of control.

I used to get "the look" quite a lot at competions but most people understood after watching him in action!
 
turkana said:
GG

I have ridden in a similar combination & I didn't like doing it either but it was only used for cross country.

For steady hacks he wore a snaffle with no martingale & a caveson noseband, for faster work he wore a vulcanite pelham or egbutt snaffle gag with martingale, for show jumping he wore the eggbutt snaffle gag, martingale & drop noseband, so he had a different bit for each thing that he did.

I tried to keep things as simple as possible where I could but he was so strong cross country I even struggled to hold in that combination but after trying many different bits & nosebands that was the only way to have a bit of control.

I used to get "the look" quite a lot at competions but most people understood after watching him in action!
Click to expand...

Not sure if all of that is in response to my post above, but if it is, then I can only apologise for not being clear...I thought I had. I don't see the need to justify why you rode in that combination as I actually say that I think it is better to have it than not have it if it is needed. I also said that I too would offer the ride to people making snide comments.

I won't judge what anyone else puts on a horse I know nothing about...who am I to do that. All I was saying is that I also won't judge people who may just be seeing something they believe is a bit harsh and thinking of the horse. It's a sad truth, but there is a whole army of people that cover their horses in unnecessary gear or use harsh bit/noseband combinations just because they can't be bothered with schooling. If snide remarks make any of those people think twice and maybe change an unnecessary bit, then it's a good thing IMO.

I don't like snide remarks though, to be clear. I just don't think they are always made in a horrible way.

I believe it has to be based on the horse. Not all horses can be trained out of being strong. Some horses love what they do so much that a barbed wire bit wouldn't stop them. THAT is what people need to remember before passing judgement.
 
GG
No need to apologise you were perfectly clear & I agree with every word you said, I just thought I'd explain why I used such a severe combination sometimes.
I will admit that I have been guilty of judging people in what appears to be unnecessay gear, although I do keep my mouth shut!
 
I have to say I personally wouldn't like having that in for a few hours out hunting, sorry. I am a fan of kinetons and have had great success with them but just wouldn't want to combination in my horses' heads. Do you ride from two reins?
 
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