Snobbery in the horse world and happy hackers.

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partbredpacer

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I know this is the unspoken elephant in the metaphorical room, but you cannot deny there is TOO MUCH snobbery in the horse world. What is wrong with being a non competitive rider? It doesn't make you a lesser person, or an negligent horse keeper, it just makes you non competitive. Not every car owner owns a car to compete with it, some just have them for pleasure, yet in the horse world owning a horse for that, just pleasure, is discriminated against and the term "happy hacker" is an insult. Just because you do not compete doesn't mean you aren't a good rider. Who else thinks this is utterly ridiculous?
 
I'd agree it was ridiculous if I'd found it to be the case. I'm quite sure there are people like the ones you describe, but I don't personally know any. I've no wish to compete, I've never wanted to, and I don't feel looked down on.

I've been on this forum (mostly here in new Lounge) about two months. I'm quite open that I'm nervous and no great rider, and my mare's never going to win any prizes but I've only received kindness and sincere advice.
 
I must just go around with my eyes closed. I'm just a happy hacker if you want to call me that as I don't like to compete and I feel no lesser a person than my 4* eventing friend
 
its even worse if your horse is capable of more and has done more and you have done more but you just dont want to anymore - used to get it all the time at a previous yard as i used to school a lot and compete and now i dont i just potter around the country side and apparently he is completly wasted on me and i shouldnt own him rah rah rah - i dont think taz was planning on doing the olympics some how haha as long as hes fed hes happy :o
 
I have never come across this competitive snobbery that other people talk about. Im on a huge yard with people from all kinds of backgrounds and all kinds of abilities - some compete, some potter around, some hack, some hate hacking and some do a bit of everything. Its all good though, nobody really cares what anyone else is doing with their ponies :D
 
You want to try being a 6 foot, 52 year old guy who hacks out on a 14.2hh pony. I don't hear the comments, but I DO see the looks.

I thoroughly enjoy hacking out, and so does Harry (my pony). When we go on holiday, my OH and I will take a compass and map, and hack out on completely unknown roads and bridleways for up to six hours a day, love it.

As for car drivers. I'm afraid as a high milage business driver, it seems most people these days do seem to think that the motorways are indeed a Grand Prix circuit. Perhaps that's why so many of them keep smashing into each other :mad:
 
partbredpacer said:
Just because you do not compete doesn't mean you aren't a good rider.
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I'm sorry, I think I fall into the 'snobbery' section. :D Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it. If that makes sense. Competitive riders hone their position, their aids etc etc. Happy hackers wouldn't do this correct?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of a good rider is... Some one who sits on a horse and walks around can sit on a horse, it does not mean they can ride. I could put my non horsey OH on a horse for a hack, does not mean he can ride!
If said horse starts pratting about (on a hack) and the rider can control it, not lose balance, get back in control quickly, sit to spooks etc, then yes they may be a good rider.
Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with happy hackers, whatever makes you happy! Just don't pretend you know everything about higher standards of riding, schooling etc
 
I enjoy competeing and have done for many years, I enjoy the challenge and I believe Prince does as well. For the past few years we have done nothing other than Hack and we have both been happy doing that.

I will talk enthusiastically about competeing and ask for advice and guidance on how to improve but you will also get the same this is the best place to go for a wander, have you seen the view from there etc and I am more than happy to spend hours in the saddle enjoying my hobby.

My sister would like to compete but as her horse flatly refuses to get in any mode of transport she isn't any less interested in horses. My mum will never compete and it makes her feel sick and is very much a happy hacker.

We all enjoy horses and it doesn't really matter what you like or want to do with your horse, it is your hobby and if anyone is looking down on what you enjoy doing then that is their problem and they are probably the unhappy ones in reality as they are possibly not being successful.
 
as in all walks of life there are individuals who are unable to accept that other people are happy doing XYZ. These are generally the ones who feel that they are better than everyone else and look down their noses at others.

I compete to a very high standard yet nothing beats getting out on your horse enjoying the countryside, tracks, mountains and beach. Just you and your horse, enjoying each others company.
 
hayleyshep88, I know a lot of retired competitive riders who just hack nowadays so I think your statement is a little sweeping. Don't get me wrong, some happy hackers can't ride, but just as many can and just can't be bothered to compete. You can't tar them all with the same brush.
 
Safe hacking requires skilled riding! Adverts saying "needs a competitive home" always make me giggle. The first thing folk intimidated by their horses give up is hacking.

If your horse is happy and you are happy who cares what you do to acheive that!
 
hayleyshep88 said:
Many happy hackers I'm afraid IMHO aren't the best riders, some may be but if all you do is hack, in my book that means you can't ride a horse in terms of getting a performance from it.
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Why do you think it has to be a "performance"? Do you believe it's not possible to do something well, but not compete with others? Not everyone wants to perform or compete in life.

Some people need an audience, some don't.
 
partbredpacer said:
hayleyshep88, I know a lot of retired competitive riders who just hack nowadays so I think your statement is a little sweeping. Don't get me wrong, some happy hackers can't ride, but just as many can and just can't be bothered to compete. You can't tar them all with the same brush.
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I know :D and I wasn't! The original post said that just because your a happy hacker doesn't mean you can't ride. Well that is a sweeping statement as well, there are many happy hackers who couldnt ride as well as competitive people, for the reasons mentioned, but I'm sure they don't care about that fact. I was just sweeping in the other direction ;)
 
Agree with Hevs and missyme10 I think a lot of it is in happy hackers minds. I compete and am a happy hacker more so now due to lack of funds.

My observation on this forum and others is that happy hackers and (dare I say it) cob owners :o spend far too much time worrying about what other people think and often in doing so come across as snobs themselves as they then proceed to put down all other riders because they compete or own a warmblood :D :rolleyes:
 
FionaM12 said:
Why do you think it has to be a "performance"? Do you believe it's not possible to do something well, but not compete with others? Not everyone wants to perform or compete in life.

Some people need an audience, some don't.
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Oh dear, I knew I would get picked on! God forgive me for looking at the other side of the argument :D I never said they did, the point I was trying to make, is that happy hackers won't be able to get their horses to do what other riders can do. Like I said, it depends on what your definition of a 'good rider' is.
 
hayleyshep88 said:
Oh dear, I knew I would get picked on! God forgive me for looking at the other side of the argument :D I never said they did, the point I was trying to make, is that happy hackers won't be able to get their horses to do what other riders can do. Like I said, it depends on what your definition of a 'good rider' is.
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I'm sorry you feel picked on. :( I didn't mean to come across like that, I was just asking, as I don't understand why someone who doesn't compete wouldn't be able to ride to the same standard as someone who does. It's nothing personal!
 
I can't quote as I am on a phone....

Hayleyshep88:
I think it works both ways really, I know many a rider that looks oh so pretty and well balanced on their well behaved horse, thus appearing a good rider. Can school well etc, again appearing good.

I've then seen them in open spaces and they can't deal with the excited leaps and bucks, or any kind of unpredictable behaviour.

I don't look down on happy hackers because they tend to be able to deal with the unexpected as they ride outside the security of an arena, usually making them effective riders.

I do however have a sly smirk at the oh so pretty riders when they ***** themselves at the thought of hacking, the smirk brought about by the fact that they think they are good riders and happy hackers aren't up to much ;)

So snobbery in reverse? Lol
 
Hmm, yes, interesting points by Missyme10 and FionaM. As you put it missyme, it is about defining what a good rider I suppose. I would imagine that there are people who school at home and get a wonderful tune out of their horse, but don't compete because they don't feel the need to. I can relate to that, as although I love competing, there are some days I'm so nervous I think twice about doing it!

Maybe the point of this thread should be competitive natures Vs non competitive natures?! :D
 
I have to add, that just because you compete doesnt mean you can ride well or that you have great knowledge or experience either. There are plenty of people regularly competing,even at affiliated level, that I would not let near one of my horses.
 
That's exactly it Hayleyshep88, there is a big difference in opinion on what a good rider is.

I watched my daughter hack out today into new stubble fields, she had big leaps of excitement, bucking going into canter, and had to deal with being in a group of 3 horses that were hell bent on
 
I think this thread has done what comes naturally and generalised which is always fun :) A couple of random examples for you:

A 'Happy Hacker' who can sit a buck or a spook may be well balanced (which does not innately make a good rider), a good rider or both.

A Happy Hacker may have a 'bombproof' hack and therefore not need to be able to be a good rider, an unsuitable horse who is a nightmare and the pair are an accident waiting to happen (I know one of those), 'retired' competitive person on any kind of horse.

The problem is as a few have pointed out is the definitions, what is a 'good rider'? One who stays on? One who gives their horse safety and confidence? One who can jump/dressage/gallop it at a high competitive standard?

I think that snobbery is just another word for stereotyping and discrimination which goes every which way.

Anyway that is my rambly two penneth's worth :)
 
FionaM12 said:
:D Maybe. And whether you need the former in order to do anything well. :D
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Yeah interesting! I'm sorry if I'm hogging this post, lol, but it's a topic that I often think about. I wonder that when I get older and maybe lose my competitive streak, that I won't want to bother with horses? As I don't get that much pleasure from hacking, does that make me an awful, not proper horse lover? :( could do with some fellow competitives to help me out here ;P

Aiming for competitions gives me aim to my riding, and I think I would be a bit lost just ambling around, I used to enjoy hacking, and still do it as part of my work, but I find it a bit boring.

If you are not competitive then, like you say, would you want to school and progress in your riding, if you aren't aiming for competition? Would you do it for pleasure? Im a terrible perfectionist, so can't imagine not wanting to improve my riding! :D
 
Oops on phone!
I was saying, she had to deal with a young excited horse in the unknown.
To me this is a good rider, she schools good also, but so can many other kids I know, but they couldn't handle the behaviour she takes in her stride.
Maybe this explains my thinking bettter :)
 
It takes more precise riding, nerves of steel, patience, accuracy and stickability taking my exracer on a hack, than competing! I'm not talking advanced here!! Although my grand prix dressage trainer refuses to get on my boy!!
 
This makes me giggle. I'm on a yard where some people event and some just hack out. We are all supportive of each other and we all just enjoy our horses.

I work in a riding school and to be honest I find more snobbery there! I hear non horse owners being very scathing about horse owners who don't regularly have lessons. They think it's sinful that people are 'only happy hackers' and don't continually try and hone their equestrian skills by having a lesson at least once a week. I do sympathise with them as I know they would love to have their own horses. Some of them are technically good but some of those making these remarks would be terrified to go out on a proper hack!
 
I think it is just like the rest of life ..... there are some peolple who think they are better than others because of more money / qualifications etc and others who treat everyone ok no matter their "assets" or lack thereof ;)

Yes I think there are snobs in the horse world, I know one or two ;), who think that because they can show jump and come home with rossies their horses are "better" than mine and they are better riders than I.

but its all down to defintion isn't it ...... as said by others.

Can I jump round a 1m course? .... well my horse can but I can't ( but if need be out a hack I can get up a bank like at hickstead and jump at the top :D )

Can I ride a novice dressage test .... hmmm doubt it - but we can side pass a treat into small spaces, stop to a weight aid and back up quickly. Actually we can get lateral work I just can never remember what the moves are called :rolleyes: .... we just do it trotting down the road.

I can also trust my horse to keep in a pace without being held and not change till I ask her..........

so I guess if I trained my horse to do all this I can't be hopeless as a rider... but true I do not have the balance / talent / bravery to do what many competitive riders do either. ;)



Yet I also do know some people who hack out that do not do any of that with their horses so it is also right that some happy hackers are terrible riders ( and I know some of them too ;) )


I just think we should try not to be prejudiced according to whether someone competes or not.



I have rarely competed but galloping out over the welsh hills and jumping the gulleys etc sure could compare to x country part of eventing skills wise I am sure :D :D :D
 
The worst snobbery I come across is people who don't compete, or do and truly believe that anyone on anything other than a obese cob is looking down on them and so it's really funny when they beat you.

I found it most on my old horse. He was a very good-looking TB, who went like **** off a shovel in a jump off and did well in working hunters. Everyone assumed that I was a pothunter, thought I was better/ didn't deserve my success because I hadn't got him off the back of a lorry, and he wasn't a coloured cob or whatever. If someone did beat me from that group of grumblers, they'd all be sniggering away. Felt like asking why they got so much pleasure from beating a nervous young teenager and her 25yo semi-retired TB...

ETA- I think the fact that Reg hacks out so beautifully as well as being very talented makes him even more special. I see no boasts to be had from a horse who won't behave himself, but many 'happy hackers' and lower-level competitors do. I found it quite shaming that my horse was insane to hack out for me (although he was an angel for novices, the toad!).
 
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