So can YOU make a living from eventing?

Gamebird

Gamebird

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OK so it's Thursday (my 'stuck in the office' afternoon) and I've been giving H&H's article some deliberation. I found it very interesting and quite realistic. If proven 3/4* jockeys can't make a living from eventing then what will happen to all the youngsters who have given up school/uni/other careers to pursue their dream?

I know that there are a few people on this forum who have taken, or are condering taking, the first step towards eventing for a living and I'm not aiming any of these comments at any of you (or anyone else!), merely laying out some thoughts and opening up a discussion.

How many aspirant young riders are covering their costs, let alone earning a wage? I would suspect that one or two of those who have European medals etc. may be doing so but I suspect that there are an awful lot being heavily subsidised by the bank of Mum and Dad.

With sponsorship deals mostly comprising equipment these days rather than providing hard cash I think that it must be very hard to find real money out there. It's all very well having a 'hat sponsor' but realistically how many hats does one jockey need and how large a part of the overall running costs does that represent. I probably replace my hat every 3-4 years (or obviously after a bad fall
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) at an approximate cost of £100. That's only £25-33 per season - if someone stepped in and covered this cost for me it wouldn't really change where I stand financially. Admittedly a whole-yard feed sponsorship deal WOULD make something of a difference...... However there are only so many feed companies out there and most of them only want to be associated with one top rider from each discipline, leaving the rest to pick amongst the crumbs.

I think that people like Oli Townend, Angus Smales et al will always make it work. They are out there competing 5 horses most days of the week from March to October. They play the numbers game and if there is a profit to be made they will take it every time. They may have made unpopular moves to get where they are but they no-one could accuse any of them of being short of determination or ambition.

However with riders of the calibre of Louisa Brassey and Briony Whitttington unable to make a wage from the sport where does that leave everyone else?

To those of you with owners/sponsors/professional ambitions I would be interested to know how the sums work out. Do you know exactly your income/costs/profit breakdown and how much you 'pay' youself per hour? I get the impression from the article that those who are surviving do exactly this. To the rest of you how long will you give yourselves to 'make it' (and what would constitute your definition of 'making it'?) and until that time are you reliant on finance from a family member etc. to subsidise your sport?

Please don't take any of this controversially or personally. I am genuinely interested (and as I mentioned, rather bored) and trying to start a reasoned discussion!
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I have often thought about this and Andrew Nicholson freely admits that eventing is a shop window and that selling makes him the money.

Ollie does it properly and he takes good/nice Novice/int horses and turns them into 2* winning machines and sells them for megabucks with the potential to be 3* or YR horses.

Laura Collett is heavily subsidised but if that falls apart what has she got left? She will have very few rides and no home.

Tina Cook dabbles in eventing as the racers make up a living as well.

Pippa Funnell is producing hundreds and has a factory now in breeding. Before that she has admitted that she was lucky that William owned his own yard.
 
I currently know of one 19 year old who gets a 'wage' off her mummy and daddy, has three horses and who in the summer is going to live/work at a very well known female eventers yard and use one of her 4* horses for the young riders.

I think that there are numerous people around like that (not just in eventing though!) where money can indeed shove you up the ladder a few rungs
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Then there's people like Oli and others who will work their socks off, and get to the top, taking the cream of the sponsorship/ownership deals and not caring who they tread on to get there. They're not liked by everyone, but if you have ambition to get there - I don't think anyone can knock you for it.

I would imagine per hour an eventer just scraping by would be earning (in real money) about £1-2 an hour.
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Interesting comment. I have a daughter who events, who is lucky enough to have a talented horse, and I am lucky enough to have a company with business partners who support her via sponsorship, plus a dam good salary and dividends on top of that. She wants to make a career out of eventing, but have a funny feeling she will expect the bank of mum and dad to fund it.

She is nearly 15 and will be doing A Levels, as both her father and I will not continue to fund this unless she gets some qualifications. I am going to make sure she reads this article, so that she can stop dreaming and start planning. We even cite one well known rider, who is the best friend and business partner of our YO, who has done well and just gone 4star, but hasnt yet ridden around Badminton as an example to her, and she has been at it for years and is in her mid 30s. This person is well known and respected, but is not a 'name', and we know how dam hard she works, and sometimes how little she earns.

Food for thought.
 
Ok, so post not aimed at me but.........
In my experience of professional riders there are very, very few who make a living from Eventing alone. With the exception of OT who personally claims to attempt to live off his eventing the others all either teach or deal in horses as their main source of income.

They aim to have horses either owned by individuals or sponsored enough to realistically cover the costs of running these horses - but to actually make enough so that they personally get some sort of salary they do 'other' things.

A certain top rider is doing a 3 hour round trip on Monday night to speak to a Riding Club, now I 'know' for guaranteed certainty that this is NOT her idea of fun and she is purely doing it to put a little cash in her pocket. If she made a 'living' from eventing alone she wouldnt need to do this....
 
Real food for thought. I have a 15 yr old daughter who we have been told by several well respected people is extremely talented, but we are unable to support her in the way we would like due to our low income, she is also expected to do well at school and would either like to make her riding her career or become a vet, which would make competing very difficult whilst studying. Reading this article leaves me in a real quandry, which way should we encourage her to go, we are encouraging her to get her A'levels under her belt with either the possibility of a year as a working pupil before doing A's or having a year out after to concentrate on competing alongside working part time. There must be lots of kids in her position, you need a good horse to be competing at a level where you may get noticed enough to get rides but without the funds or a generous sponser how do you ever get there?
 
Why am I currently sitting behind a desk at work? To pay for my rather expensive hobby! As I told my MD when I went for an internal interview a few months ago - I will not be leaving the compay in a few years down the road to do horses - because I need to pay for my eventing - he laughed as his sister in law is a professional eventer in Ireland and produces youg horses. So he understands the cost of this 'hobby'

Most professional eventers (and show jumpers) either teach or deal to fund their eventing/show jumping. Its tough going and many do not know when the next pay day will come - although I would love to be at home eventing/riding its nice to know that someone is paying my wage and I will be able to pay my bills each month.

No matter how talented you are - it is tough going.

When I help out at Dublin Horse Show with the international jumping - it is certainly far from glamourous - the majority of the top riders are under pressure to perform/get placed to earn pirze money to pay to keep their 'show' on the road.

My mum has always said 'earn enough to keep the horses and don't work full time with them' and although at times I wish I wasn't in an office I am extremely grateful for the advise.
 
I have given this quite a bit of thought actually. I don't think you can make money from eventing. The money comes from buying and selling horses (not unreasonable) and from being the sort of rider that people are happy to send their errant horses to for a tune up. Getting your name out their as an eventer and getting good rides is simply the means by which you become a go-to name. For example, if you had a very talented horse that you couldn't ride one side of, the obvious person to send it to would be someone like Andrew Nicholson. If you had a sensitive horse, maybe a lady rider. For dressage, send it to Ruth Edge/Pippa Funnell etc. The trick of making a living is to create a name for yourself so that you can then pick up rides and buy and sell on the side.

I think Kitty Boggis also takes in resting racehorses in the winter and to be honest, that's the way to make the money that carries you through the summer. I do worry about some of the really young riders as it takes so long to make a name for yourself that you'd need serious bankrolling before you could really make a business out of it. That's all well and good if you have squillionaire parents to buy you horsepower and have your own yard, but what if you don't? I know a pro who is realistic and wants to go as far as possible eventing but recognises that one day you'll wake up and be old and you need the kind of business that allows you retire instead of taking catch rides well into your 40s. Hence, Pippa Funnell and the Billy Stud - she calls it her 'pension fund'.
 
gosh no, i've never made a penny from eventing and probably never will (i have spent a fortune on it though - in cost of horses, running costs, entry fees, etc etc, and had a LOT of fun though! mostly my money, fwiw, although i am lucky to have an exceptionally generous mother.)
i know that i'm just not ruthless enough to make money from horses. a month after buying my grey mare i was offered double what i paid for her. i should have taken their hand off (someone smart like OT would have, i'm sure) but of course i didn't. if i had, i could have banked the difference and bought another v nice young horse.
i've had rides for owners in the past but even then it didn't give me any sort of a 'wage' as such.
i take my hat off to anyone who can truly make a living from it, as long as it is not at the expense of the horses...
 
Its also why Eric Winter cut back on riding and went other directions (course building). Eric was a good rider but made a rep with tricky horses - these are not the kind of horses you want to be eventing when you get older.
 
I think it is impossible to get anywhere in eventing now without the Bank of Mum and/or Dad.

even OT had his dad's support for the first few years.

the costs are just way too high and the return too small.

when i think about it, every 4**** rider i know has had financial backing from their family- or mum doesn't work so is fulltime groom etc.

when i was 16 and left school i wanted to ride fulltime.
reality hit when i was 20 and i got a 'proper' job which can pay the mortgage and pay for the horses.
 
I should probably add to that my father made extremely strong representation to me as a child that I HAD to go to uni and get the kind of degree that would allow me to pay for my horses. He also was of the opinion that you should never do for a living what you enjoy doing as a hobby as it would ruin it for me. It's not for everyone and my parents took the line that encouraging me in horses would inevitably sidetrack me from my studies. If I had my own kids, I think I'd probably feel the same - who wants to be bankrolling their kids into your 80s! The flipside is that if they like horses, you can always 'gently' encourage them to work hard and be a vet!!!
 
I decided from watching older friends that i was never going to work with horses and that i would get a job that allowed me to enjoy the sport i adore as a hobby. Occasionally i dream about being out in the sunshine all day but mostly i'm very happy with the decision i made.

Conversely my sister didnt go to uni and works as a groom for an international pro and very often wishes she had a job that allowed to her own her own horse and actually enjoy being with horses.
 
I would say no. I made the decision to go to uni, get degree, then job rather than work with horses. Unlike some of my counterparts who chose the horse route (struggled to make ends meet, worked for peanuts, couldn't even afford to keep a horse, never mind buy one), I have a good job which I do in order to afford my expensive hobby. I have a decent house, my own land and stables, lorry and five horses.

I like keeping my hobby separate from my job. Means I enjoy it more!
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Having never had the 'bank of Mum and Dad' (in fact, they couldn't be more unsupportive!!), I was working from the age of 14 to be able to ride and when I was doing my A levels, I worked 4 jobs so that I could compete. I had no transport either so getting to competitions meant hiring a transporter... Not cheap!

My parents didn't encourage me either way. But I realised that if I wanted to ride (let alone compete), I was on my own, so I HAD to get a decent job that would mean I could afford to do this. I got a law degree and have a decent job now and, regardless of my talent when I was younger, there's no way I would or could have got backing from my parents so I had 2 options; get a job that pays so you can ride, or don't work, be poor and live on the street...

My friend is an equine vet and she has two horses, one at novice and one at intermediate. It works out fine for her
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Well, I am currently trying to sort a form of sponsorship out. I'm not saying that this will provide me with 4* horses for life, but every little helps! Its more to take the strain of mum than fund me through life.

Having been at boarding school for 7 years I am aching to do horses 'full-time'; well on my gap year anyway! I have applied for Uni, and still intend to go and combine the two. This year I will be working at home( in our T-rooms, 5 days a week 11-5) and will just have fun whilst I can with horses. I'd love to say that it 5 years I will be rolling in it, but its far from simple. You need a good brain and a ruthless personality(think back to georgie spence post here) to succeed.

Havnt read article yet, but will look forward to it!
 
well i am in no way talented enough to have made it as a pro but to be honest i don't think i would want to. i enjoy having my horses and having the money to pay for them- would hate to have to be as cutthroat as ppl like OT has to be...also would not want to event 500 horses a day for 9 months
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a good friend is a pro showjumper. she's competed for GB successfully but doesn't really make a living out of the jumping- the prize money just isn't good enough when you have to compete against the whitakers all the time
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She teaches and does camps/clinics a LOT to be able to compete. and this is in Sjing where prize money is significantly more than for eventing...so i doubt many eventers make a profit without external support of some kind. i think parental support, esp in the early years MUST play a huge role in getting young riders started....
 
As others have said, those pros out there who appear to be supporting themselves eventing are so far as I can make out actually eventing to keep their name in the spotlight but in reality make the money out of dealing, teaching etc.

I may be wrong here but I think it's a lot harder now for someone to come from nowhere with very little money and get their name known in order to allow them to get money coming in. There are so many young riders out there supported by the bank of mum and dad who can buy quality mounts that coming from nowhere must now be nigh on impossible where as twenty thirty years ago it was a realistic proposition eg Mary King. Or do I just view the past through rose tinted spectacles?!

Looking forward to reading the article in H&H, just got home but have to go out again shortly so am saving it til tomorrow when I can enjoy it properly.
 
I'm not an eventing person, but I've always said that the only way to make money through ANY equestrian activity (be it competeing, dealing, running yards etc) is to have a lot of it in the first place!

Very interestinging thread though!
 
It's all very interesting. The feeling I get is that previously people started out essentially apprenticed to a trainer/rider - think Ruth McMullen, Lars Sederholm, Sheila Wilcox - and were employed (note the use of the word to imply earning a wage) to produce/compete horses, whilst also covering the graft of yardwork and grooming. They were learning a trade as a trainee farrier might and only once they were sufficiently trained to go out and take a yard on themselves did they do so. By this time they had made a name for themselves and had contacts with potential owners. Don't get me wrong, I know that this was in a different era where different economic factors applied and I'm sure that plenty of people didn't make it.

The impression I get now is that people seem to want to set up on their own from the word go, often with their JRN/PC horse as a starting point, but perhaps without the experience that working at the top-level for a couple of years could have brought them and without the capital/knowledge/dealing sense to run a sideline in re-schooling or buying and selling.

Or is it all more to do with the 'I want it, it's my life, therefore I deserve it (whether or not I've got the talent and drive to actually make it)' mindset that fuels X-Factor competitors?
 
I suppose I should make an appearance here as know that I'm included in this :

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I know that there are a few people on this forum who have taken, or are condering taking, the first step towards eventing for a living and I'm not aiming any of these comments at any of you (or anyone else!)

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As many of you are aware I left school in March last year, part way through Year 12 / Lower 6th to focus on my riding full time. Risky at the best of times, let alone when I'd not even registered for any form of team trials let alone being a medal winner. I was in the unlucky position that we had 3 horses, rented acreage, no stabling, no school, and I was working and doing A-levels, and just didn't have the time or facilities to work them. We couldn't generate the facilities but I could generate the time, and with a couple of 'big name' companies offering to sponsor me, I wanted to give it my best shot and give the horses the attention they needed. I know the logical thing was to sell two, but P is my horse of a lifetime I think, and T is part of the family. And Ginger Pone? Well, he's a dude.

To begin with it was really difficult to adjust to not having a timetable dictating your life - 'period one double flatwork, break, period 3 double hacking' doesn't really work.

I will admit that my mum does play a fundamental part in helping me financially - but she has a limited income [she's a retired police offer so has a fixed pension each month, which is also used for house bills etc, and isn't a huge sum.] We are very careful of where the pennies go, and really have to pick and choose events / number of runs. I do bar work & waitressing in the evenings, but obviously my wage is dependant on the hours I work. However, I usually get a fair few as I can be flexible. In the 2wks preceeding xmas I earned £230 or thereabouts, but last week only £27. It really does vary. I also cover for a local eventers head girl on her day off, and do second horses for the master of our hunt [usually twice a week.] That job will obviously disappear come March though, but it's an extra £240 a month. [As you can see I'm answering another of Gamebirds questions - we are VERY aware of finances and keeping records of what is spent where].

I ride Nijinsky's mare twice a week - once flat schooling and once jumping - and she pays me to ride and covers my fuel cost for going over. She then pays her entry fees etc.
Navalgem has just given me the ride on her 4yo, and he's based with me. Again, she covers his costs [livery [stable/grazing/bedding/feed], farrier, entry fees, reg fees, lessons, diesel etc] and then when he's sold I will get a commission.

By admission yes, the majority of my income comes from outside - my bar job has the highest wage, albeit inconsistent. However, I do count doing NM's yard and second horses as coming from inside my eventing. I was asked to do the jobs on the basis of my experience, ethic, knowledge and responsibility [that sounds really big headed I know
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] One of the reasons I was asked to do second horses is I'm used to dealing with big horses [mine are all 16.3] and should the need arise the Master feel's I'm competent enough to ride them and handle them on my own. Obviously I'm earning from the two rides, and then I also have another one, but she's a showjumper so working her and competing her is a limited business as I'm not a showjumper so my eventers take priority [however, this mare is a cracker and I could honestly turn to SJ for her!]

I do keep blow by blow accounts - Manage My Horse has been a life saver. I keep receipts on everything, as I have to invoice Navalgem at the end of the month for any extra's Baby Pony needs. It's difficult, and we are trying our best to make it work - I am adamant had I still been in education the Heffa would not have come on the way he did this year. One of the things I was told by my English teacher was 'you have to commit to your professional sport early in life - education will always be there.' I will just say that this was a very old school lady and was very much gcses then a-levels then university then a job should be the route for everyone! She always wanted me to go to uni and do an English degree [probably incorporating psychology or criminology] because I'd always excelled at English [again that sounds really cocky, but honestly, I got full marks for every single piece of coursework I ever did, was top set, predicted an A at A-level...]. Sometimes I do miss education, and sometimes I do panic that should anything happen I have sweet FA to fall back on. But there are so many more opportunities now for people to do open access courses and go back to education that I know I'm not out on a limb.

Also, ETA, I also am a seamstress to help cover costs - I've just sat and stitched belt loops onto one set of breeches, knee pads onto another, and stitched up holes in a 3rd. Last summet I was commissioned to design and make an evening dress, which cost me nothing and earnt me £150. I pick and choose the jobs to fit in around everything and by what I realistically think I can get done in the time frame. As Tesco says, every little helps.
 
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The impression I get now is that people seem to want to set up on their own from the word go, often with their JRN/PC horse as a starting point, but perhaps without the experience that working at the top-level for a couple of years could have brought them and without the capital/knowledge/dealing sense to run a sideline in re-schooling or buying and selling.

Or is it all more to do with the 'I want it, it's my life, therefore I deserve it (whether or not I've got the talent and drive to actually make it)' mindset that fuels X-Factor competitors?

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i think the latter is a very valid point, the zeitgeist is "if you want something enough, and are prepared to work hard enough at it, you will get it" (and be a Spice Girl, or the next Pippa Funnell, or whatever...) but i reckon this actually happens for about 1 in a million...!
i went as Working Pupil to a top name eventer, and he once told me in a rare expansive moment that he wished he evented as a hobby, had a city job earning £££s and could enjoy the horses. this was when he had a yard of about 10 full-paying good rides...
after leaving there, a good friend (another WP there) asked me to set up an event yard with her down south near her OH. we both had a yard at our parents' homes but she didn't want to come to mine, and hers was too small. i did the sums and no way could i see it working, plus i really didn't think i knew enough, or rode well enough, yet.
cowardice or common sense?
i do think there are things you learn when grafting in a top yard that just can't be learnt any other way, little things that no-one would even think of pointing out in a lesson, that are just "the way it's done", this sort of horse lore can make all the difference.
 
I know I dont post on here much anymore but I am another one who is trying "to go it alone". And 1st thought is no you cant.

I did my A-levels, Chemistry, Maths, Biology and Physics, with the original aim of being a vet. During 6th form, I spent one afternoon a week working at the vets, and had done loads of work experience required. I was also working (once I could drive) for my riding instructor helping at their livery/competition yard.
I soon realised that the vet wasnt quite the job I had always dreamed off, and as I was spending more and more time with the horses, I drifted that way, especially after my careers teacher told me to look at another degree in case I didnt get the grades! Part of this decision was off the back of an amazing pony that I rode for some friends, as GB says, my JRN horse! and also the realisation that horses and vet wasnt going to mix to a level I was happy with.
So, after somewhat fluffing my A levels, I went on a gap year, working were I had been. I had been given a place at Cirencester to study International Equine and Agricultural Business Management. I decided this was going to be a total waste of time and money for pretty much every one concerned, and so moved on to another WP position.
I have now had 3 WP jobs, and decided to come home.
I am very very fortunate that my parents fully support me, but this does leave me feeling pretty guilty, but atm if I had taken the vet route, I would still be at uni, and still be needing their help financially.

In a word I dont think you can make a living from eventing. But you can have a reasonable go with horses. I hope I am able to pick up enough outside work (grooming, riding out, covering illness) that I can cover my 3 horses, and if needed I can get a few liveries, and if an owner wants to send me a horse it is a bonus.

I havent got any serious sponsorship, I have use of some gallops which is great but nothing financial. TBH with only 3 horses of my own I dont see I am particularly of sponsorship value.

Also I think making a living is an interesting thing, in terms of my friends think I am bonkers, I dont go out, I dont really drink, I have no want of a smart car or sky or the latest mobile phone, why? because it means I can save a few pennies for my eventing.

In the end I am going to see how far I can get, have fun, and when I cant afford to event myself, I expect I will go and be a groom, I love it, and tbh me sitting in an office will never happen!

OT and a few others may make a living but is it from eventing, with the HSBC classic, Burghley, Badminton and Express eventing, a fistful of owners OT is obviously on the way their, but alot also comes from dealing, Polar Run, Land Vision both fetched mega £££ along with other novices that come and go all the time. And The Champions Tour etc all bring in more income. And yes you need your name made from eventing to be in demand for clinics etc but without them you cant event, the two parts go hand in hand.

And to take it back to business, how many people do you know who own and run their own business that havent had financial help from an outside source?

Sorry lots of rambling!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Do you know how to make a small fortune from horses?

Start with a large fortune

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with that!! I think to make it in eventing, you have to have money to start with, usually from parents that can go out and buy the horses and financially back them on the road from day to day feeding etc through to yard, lorry and competition fees.

Those of us that are standing on our own 2 feet, and those 2 feet alone have to face reality and get a decent paying job!
 
Not an eventer person myself, more dressage ... but to throw into the mix of discussion Emily Llewyn is at uni and also managing a highly successful eventing career, wonder why she opted to still go to uni?
Likewise Laura B has now graduated, even though taking her sport route as her career she still chose to get a degree.
Without a doubt both have had help from their parents financially and support wise.
There are probably other examples but they were the two that sprung to mind.
 
i went to Uni after a year out, no regrets at all, it is much harder to go back and do it much later (2 of my friends there were mature students and they found it incredibly hard). i was encouraged (but not forced) to go, have always been very glad that i have my degree, even though i haven't used it much.
WFP went to Uni first, btw.
 
[ QUOTE ]
i went to Uni after a year out, no regrets at all, it is much harder to go back and do it much later (2 of my friends there were mature students and they found it incredibly hard). i was encouraged (but not forced) to go, have always been very glad that i have my degree, even though i haven't used it much.
WFP went to Uni first, btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

And Harry Meade... Maybe we should start an 'I'm an eventer and I've got a degree' group? :P
 
Maybe it's an insurance policy in case of rider breakage...!

I dispute though that you can't do a degree and compete to a high level. I know one vet student who's won at IN and been 2nd at the dressage nationals. OK so she ran around like a mad thing to do it but the upshot is that she has the money to event with..!
 
Nope, I couldn't!
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I agree with the majority who've said that only a tiny few people will ever actually make a living out of it, never mind break even. I was always encouraged to get a job that would pay for my horse obsession to be a hobby, rather than lose heart doing it as a job and I think they were right, much as I would have hated to admit that as a teenager!
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