Coffee_Bean
Well-Known Member
I couldn't, and I think in many ways I would rather keep it as a hobby. Have a permanent job (hopefully vet) and when established in that, find a way to compete in the side lines.
So can YOU make a living from eventing?
- Thread starter Gamebird
- Start date
Little_Miss_1
Well-Known Member
I - like alot of people on here - had dreams of becoming an event rider as a child. I was even pretty good at jr level. I had to decide however, if I was going to do the horses full time and risk it or become a vet. Vet won! I felt that i couldnt be that selfish and make my parents bank-roll me into their pension. I don't 'come from money' but they did offer to keep me and the horses as best as they could afford and would have been entirely supportive whatever my decision. However, without the £££££ behind you, an eventing career is limited. I am very driven and ambitious and did not want a career where I'm limited by my finances. At least as a vet, my limiting factors are my ability and talent. If I could go back 6 years to when I made that choice, I would do exactly the same again. This way I can enjoy my horses in my time with the money to do it properly. Somewhere in my future is a bloody good horse and I will be able to enjoy it without worrying 'How much is this entry'???
One of my good friends was on the U18 GB squad. She was exceptionally talented. Had far richer parents than I who would be able to buy her the best of everything. But her parents company went bust and lost everything. When the time came she couldn't stand on her own two feet. She ended up losing money all over the place - dispite her talent. She has now done her A-levels (the hard way round!) and doing Vet med too. She says she is looking forward to enjoying her horses rather than worrying about every penny.
Sure OT makes a living. But for every OT there are 100,000 fails. I didn't fancy those odds.
One of my good friends was on the U18 GB squad. She was exceptionally talented. Had far richer parents than I who would be able to buy her the best of everything. But her parents company went bust and lost everything. When the time came she couldn't stand on her own two feet. She ended up losing money all over the place - dispite her talent. She has now done her A-levels (the hard way round!) and doing Vet med too. She says she is looking forward to enjoying her horses rather than worrying about every penny.
Sure OT makes a living. But for every OT there are 100,000 fails. I didn't fancy those odds.
Gamebird
Well-Known Member
I am grateful to those especially Talavera and MaryMoo who have given us an insight into their finances
and am interested to know: does anyone consider themselves to be a professional eventer?
Starbucks
Well-Known Member
What do we call a pro eventer though? Plenty of people make a living from horses varying from being a groom, to running a yard to being one of the elite top who do make a good chunk of money from prize money.. but even they will get money from other sources.
My point is - where do you draw the line? I know lots of people who don't compete at a particularly high level but have horses as their career and make money from lessons etc. so in a sense they are all pro riders - if there main discipline is eventing, are they are pro eventer or not?
I guess it will be the same with a lot of sports that do not have a high cost/winnings ratio. My friend is a pro rock climber but he does not make his money from winning competitions, that just keeps him in the public eye for doing photo shoots/training courses etc.
I do think Eventing takes a certain amount of backing from parents but not necessarily in the form of big bucks. Oli T's parents are not Rich but from my impression from knowing him when we were kids they did seem to be completely dedicated to his future career. Same with EW.
I think if people have the opportunity then they should give it a go - why not? When ever people mention "mummy and daddy" I think it skinks of jealously TBH. It might only be one a million that make it but if no one gave it a go then there would be no top sports people, movie or pop stars.
Totally non ambitious person here with poor parents and never even considered a career with horses - but good luck to those who do!
My point is - where do you draw the line? I know lots of people who don't compete at a particularly high level but have horses as their career and make money from lessons etc. so in a sense they are all pro riders - if there main discipline is eventing, are they are pro eventer or not?
I guess it will be the same with a lot of sports that do not have a high cost/winnings ratio. My friend is a pro rock climber but he does not make his money from winning competitions, that just keeps him in the public eye for doing photo shoots/training courses etc.
I do think Eventing takes a certain amount of backing from parents but not necessarily in the form of big bucks. Oli T's parents are not Rich but from my impression from knowing him when we were kids they did seem to be completely dedicated to his future career. Same with EW.
I think if people have the opportunity then they should give it a go - why not? When ever people mention "mummy and daddy" I think it skinks of jealously TBH. It might only be one a million that make it but if no one gave it a go then there would be no top sports people, movie or pop stars.
Totally non ambitious person here with poor parents and never even considered a career with horses - but good luck to those who do!
now_loves_mares
Well-Known Member
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I may be wrong here but I think it's a lot harder now for someone to come from nowhere with very little money and get their name known in order to allow them to get money coming in. There are so many young riders out there supported by the bank of mum and dad who can buy quality mounts that coming from nowhere must now be nigh on impossible where as twenty thirty years ago it was a realistic proposition eg Mary King. Or do I just view the past through rose tinted spectacles?!
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I think you must be! When I was 15 (ahem, 20 years ago) I clearly remember going to PC Interbranch. In the commentary bit I had written "my aim is to study law so that I can earn enough money to event".
Much as I loathe having to work (accountant now, not a lawyer!) I would never ever have tried to make my living from horses. Though very sadly, the accountant in me feels the need to go and build a complex financial model that will provide the level of wins you'd you'd need in a year to break even
V interesting topic GB - and not an argument or huff in sight
I may be wrong here but I think it's a lot harder now for someone to come from nowhere with very little money and get their name known in order to allow them to get money coming in. There are so many young riders out there supported by the bank of mum and dad who can buy quality mounts that coming from nowhere must now be nigh on impossible where as twenty thirty years ago it was a realistic proposition eg Mary King. Or do I just view the past through rose tinted spectacles?!
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I think you must be! When I was 15 (ahem, 20 years ago) I clearly remember going to PC Interbranch. In the commentary bit I had written "my aim is to study law so that I can earn enough money to event".
Much as I loathe having to work (accountant now, not a lawyer!) I would never ever have tried to make my living from horses. Though very sadly, the accountant in me feels the need to go and build a complex financial model that will provide the level of wins you'd you'd need in a year to break even
V interesting topic GB - and not an argument or huff in sight
only_me
Well-Known Member
Once upon a time I wanted to event for a living. I then discovered I enjoyed bringing on young horses too much, and that I wanted to ride for fun, not for life.
I'm at uni now - my parents wouldnt let me have a gap year. I wanted to go to england and get a WP postion (I love working with horses on the ground, and am an early morning person
) but they believed I wouldnt have come back!
In the last year I have realised that I only want to ride for fun - thank goodness i went to uni!! I still have my horse, and managed to aquire an excellent sponser, and then maybe, if luck goes our way, try for young rider team, but if not, so what!
A lot of my friends tried for junior team, if they got on great, if they didnt, that was usually the end of eventing by then as they drifted off to do different things
What worries me though is that less people are becoming pro eventers - what happens in 10/20/30 years time when the current pro's retire? Are we going to have as many??
I'm at uni now - my parents wouldnt let me have a gap year. I wanted to go to england and get a WP postion (I love working with horses on the ground, and am an early morning person
In the last year I have realised that I only want to ride for fun - thank goodness i went to uni!! I still have my horse, and managed to aquire an excellent sponser, and then maybe, if luck goes our way, try for young rider team, but if not, so what!
A lot of my friends tried for junior team, if they got on great, if they didnt, that was usually the end of eventing by then as they drifted off to do different things
What worries me though is that less people are becoming pro eventers - what happens in 10/20/30 years time when the current pro's retire? Are we going to have as many??
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
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And to take it back to business, how many people do you know who own and run their own business that havent had financial help from an outside source?
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Me. I did it last summer. I freelanced for a bit under my old company's insurance, sat down, did the sums, went to see business link and an accountant to make sure I wasn't wildly out, then used some savings I had to set up my own company, which is earning me more than I ever got working for someone else.
I don't have 'security' in the sense of knowing what is coming in each month, but I am a sensible sort, already had 3 months salary saved before I did this, and my work at the end of last summer earnt me enough to tide me over the quiet period of winter which my industry usually faces.
It's perfectly possible to set up a business without any financial backing from another source if you know what you are doing, have the sums right, have the contacts and experience to make it work, and put the hours in.
And to take it back to business, how many people do you know who own and run their own business that havent had financial help from an outside source?
[/ QUOTE ]
Me. I did it last summer. I freelanced for a bit under my old company's insurance, sat down, did the sums, went to see business link and an accountant to make sure I wasn't wildly out, then used some savings I had to set up my own company, which is earning me more than I ever got working for someone else.
I don't have 'security' in the sense of knowing what is coming in each month, but I am a sensible sort, already had 3 months salary saved before I did this, and my work at the end of last summer earnt me enough to tide me over the quiet period of winter which my industry usually faces.
It's perfectly possible to set up a business without any financial backing from another source if you know what you are doing, have the sums right, have the contacts and experience to make it work, and put the hours in.
Starbucks
Well-Known Member
Are less people becoming pro though? Maybe more people are trying but not less people becoming?
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
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i do think there are things you learn when grafting in a top yard that just can't be learnt any other way, little things that no-one would even think of pointing out in a lesson, that are just "the way it's done", this sort of horse lore can make all the difference.
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I think this is the key thing for me really. I'm reading Ginny Leng's book 'training the event horse' at the moment, and alongside the CDT thing I did, I have had all kinds of little bits of 'info' which I wouldn't have known in a million years otherwise. Nothing earth-shattering, but the difference between a lame horse and a sound one quite possibly.
i do think there are things you learn when grafting in a top yard that just can't be learnt any other way, little things that no-one would even think of pointing out in a lesson, that are just "the way it's done", this sort of horse lore can make all the difference.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is the key thing for me really. I'm reading Ginny Leng's book 'training the event horse' at the moment, and alongside the CDT thing I did, I have had all kinds of little bits of 'info' which I wouldn't have known in a million years otherwise. Nothing earth-shattering, but the difference between a lame horse and a sound one quite possibly.
scally
Well-Known Member
As an owner, when I was looking for a rider there were a lot of people out there calling themselves "pro eventers", the truth really to use an example where your waiter serving you at a restuarant tells you they are really an actor, this job just pays the mortgage".
To me a "pro" rider is someone, who producers and competes horses, works full time at doing this, has the knowledge and ability, experience and education to professionally do the job in question, competes at a minimum of intermediate and has had good results on several different horses.
As the word "professional" means efficient, experienced, expert, finished, knowing one's stuff, known, learned, polished, practiced, proficient, qualified, sharp, skillful.
To me a "pro" rider is someone, who producers and competes horses, works full time at doing this, has the knowledge and ability, experience and education to professionally do the job in question, competes at a minimum of intermediate and has had good results on several different horses.
As the word "professional" means efficient, experienced, expert, finished, knowing one's stuff, known, learned, polished, practiced, proficient, qualified, sharp, skillful.
Hemirjtm
Well-Known Member
I haven't left school to become a professional Eventer. Obviously I would love to but in reality it is just not going to happen!
I am still going to study but i'm doing the things that I want to do. I will however go back to get a degree as a mature student. I just needed a bit of time to get myself sorted. I am planning on doing an Open Uni course whilst do horses. I also work and have just been offered a really good opportunity. I ride a few peoples horses for them to earn a bit extra.
I think if you ask a lot of people who know me in person and the way I ride then they will say I'm talented. Personally I don't believe this as I don't feel as though I'm where I would like to be BUT this is partially down to finances.
Both my parents work, although my mum has gone back to work after 5years of not working to help pay for me to have the horses.
We are very lucky to have the horses at home, so no livery costs. Just hay, feed...etc. Although I have to travel 5mins in the trailer to use a school. I will hack there in the spring but at the moment it is not practical to hack there! One day I would like to have an arena but without any financial backing this is just not possible!
I think I am very lucky to have the support of my parents, and whatever I decide to do they will be there. My dad and I were talking about horses (dad isn't particularly horsey!) and he said "If I could go out tomorrow and buy you your next horse, you know I would. But I can't and I don't like saying that". We don't have money and some months the horses get fed and we live on pasta and peas! I'm grateful for everything my parents do, and I get very offended when someone says that I am spoilt...because we don't live the life of luxury, and I don't believe that I am spoilt. I'm just a very lucky 18yr old girl.
I do envy the people who have money, because I 'wish that was me' but then I stop and think 'well actually no I wouldn't want to have money as I wouldn't have anything to work for' Everything would be handed to me on a plate. Obviously it would be nice to have a bit more money at times, but I have learnt to live 'on a shoestring', and if I ever do have money at least I will respect it and not spend it wildly!!
I am still going to study but i'm doing the things that I want to do. I will however go back to get a degree as a mature student. I just needed a bit of time to get myself sorted. I am planning on doing an Open Uni course whilst do horses. I also work and have just been offered a really good opportunity. I ride a few peoples horses for them to earn a bit extra.
I think if you ask a lot of people who know me in person and the way I ride then they will say I'm talented. Personally I don't believe this as I don't feel as though I'm where I would like to be BUT this is partially down to finances.
Both my parents work, although my mum has gone back to work after 5years of not working to help pay for me to have the horses.
We are very lucky to have the horses at home, so no livery costs. Just hay, feed...etc. Although I have to travel 5mins in the trailer to use a school. I will hack there in the spring but at the moment it is not practical to hack there! One day I would like to have an arena but without any financial backing this is just not possible!
I think I am very lucky to have the support of my parents, and whatever I decide to do they will be there. My dad and I were talking about horses (dad isn't particularly horsey!) and he said "If I could go out tomorrow and buy you your next horse, you know I would. But I can't and I don't like saying that". We don't have money and some months the horses get fed and we live on pasta and peas! I'm grateful for everything my parents do, and I get very offended when someone says that I am spoilt...because we don't live the life of luxury, and I don't believe that I am spoilt. I'm just a very lucky 18yr old girl.
I do envy the people who have money, because I 'wish that was me' but then I stop and think 'well actually no I wouldn't want to have money as I wouldn't have anything to work for' Everything would be handed to me on a plate. Obviously it would be nice to have a bit more money at times, but I have learnt to live 'on a shoestring', and if I ever do have money at least I will respect it and not spend it wildly!!
stencilface
High upon a hillside
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I think if people have the opportunity then they should give it a go - why not? When ever people mention "mummy and daddy" I think it skinks of jealously TBH. It might only be one a million that make it but if no one gave it a go then there would be no top sports people, movie or pop stars.
Totally non ambitious person here with poor parents and never even considered a career with horses - but good luck to those who do!
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I don't envy anyone who has a career in horses, even if it is funded my mummy and daddy. I like having a job, which ok isn't the best paying atm (I'm not a lawyer, accountant etc) but enough to keep my horse and enjoy it.
The upside of having a more conventional job is that I can take holidays, weekends away whenever I want - not like my friend who works for an eventer. And I also get to work outside alot, which is good for the soul and even better for the tan
There are many things I can compromise on, holidays isn't one of them
I think if people have the opportunity then they should give it a go - why not? When ever people mention "mummy and daddy" I think it skinks of jealously TBH. It might only be one a million that make it but if no one gave it a go then there would be no top sports people, movie or pop stars.
Totally non ambitious person here with poor parents and never even considered a career with horses - but good luck to those who do!
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I don't envy anyone who has a career in horses, even if it is funded my mummy and daddy. I like having a job, which ok isn't the best paying atm (I'm not a lawyer, accountant etc) but enough to keep my horse and enjoy it.
The upside of having a more conventional job is that I can take holidays, weekends away whenever I want - not like my friend who works for an eventer. And I also get to work outside alot, which is good for the soul and even better for the tan
There are many things I can compromise on, holidays isn't one of them
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
I don't think you can make a living easily from horses. I think the ones who have succeeded work extremely hard. I know I had it instilled into me as a child that "you can never make money out of horses" and IMO that is true to a degree! Saying that, I do find them useful for "pocket money" - I've bought and sold a few "projects" although they weren't to make money as such, I simply enjoy bringing on youngsters and any profit was a bonus. But that's such a tiny scale and realistically I probably only made £1500 on each pony. That profit then goes straight back into competing though 
I think thats horsey peoples problem, they cant have money sitting in the bank. I know its damn hard when I sell one horse and have the cash sitting there I instantly start "window shopping" for another even though I dont need one!
I think thats horsey peoples problem, they cant have money sitting in the bank. I know its damn hard when I sell one horse and have the cash sitting there I instantly start "window shopping" for another even though I dont need one!
Chloe_GHE
Well-Known Member
On a slightly different note I think those who manage to make it also have started and progressed to quite a high level by quite an early age eg having a good team pony or eventing to Novice or above before their 20's and that's part of the key to their success. Malcolm Gladwell did a very interesting study on canadian hockey players and Bill Gates and how 'genius' is achieved (it's fascinating so I would recommend anyone to read it) he basically came to the conclusion that when you had amassed 10,000 hours of your chosen sport/disciplin you were then well ahead of the next person and the younger you started the better and so more likely to succeed (this is 10,000 hrs of constructive work eg for eventers it would equate to 10,000 hrs competing and not just at the event it would be 10,000 from the start of the bell to the end, beginning of test to end, from start box to finish so you can imagine that will take quite a while to rack up! what's an avg event say at PN 6mins dressage, 4mins sj, and 7mins xc = 17mins that about right?...)
in a way I am glad I had pretty ropey horses when I was younger because I think if I had had one 'horse of a lifetime' it may well have clouded my judgement and given me false hope that I could be a pro rider. As it was I did think that I could possibly make £ out of buying project horses and retraining them and selling them, but I thought about the day to day reality and it didn't appeal. As much as I race out the door at 5pm and can't wait to ride I like my steady income, mixing with more people, the academic professional side, and I would miss that if I didn't have it, and then start to resent the more mundane aspects of eventing eg mucking out, sweeping up etc. I think to make a go of it you have to love it and ALL of it, have some sort of foot in the door eg your own land, or facilities or £ and then dedication and time invested. Even with all those boxes ticked some people still don't have the luck!
it's a hard life so a HUGE GOOD LUCK to all of you who are trying to make it I really hope you do
in a way I am glad I had pretty ropey horses when I was younger because I think if I had had one 'horse of a lifetime' it may well have clouded my judgement and given me false hope that I could be a pro rider. As it was I did think that I could possibly make £ out of buying project horses and retraining them and selling them, but I thought about the day to day reality and it didn't appeal. As much as I race out the door at 5pm and can't wait to ride I like my steady income, mixing with more people, the academic professional side, and I would miss that if I didn't have it, and then start to resent the more mundane aspects of eventing eg mucking out, sweeping up etc. I think to make a go of it you have to love it and ALL of it, have some sort of foot in the door eg your own land, or facilities or £ and then dedication and time invested. Even with all those boxes ticked some people still don't have the luck!
Daisychain
Well-Known Member
How i agree with what you have written lol!
I think one thing is you need very supportive parents and plenty of money!
Unfortunately i came from totally non horsey parents, worked in a green house all summer holidays to pay for my first pony! And hacked miles and miles to shows!
One thing though is i often think is that if i had had the right support as i child i think i could have been good enough....
Im too old now and you do lose your killer instinct slightly as you get older.
I have some lovely horses now, and buy and sell a few youngsters to pay for them all!!
The Oliver T's of this world are real exceptions, the rest are probably struggling, but with good financial help from parents or whatever.
I think one thing is you need very supportive parents and plenty of money!
Unfortunately i came from totally non horsey parents, worked in a green house all summer holidays to pay for my first pony! And hacked miles and miles to shows!
One thing though is i often think is that if i had had the right support as i child i think i could have been good enough....
Im too old now and you do lose your killer instinct slightly as you get older.
I have some lovely horses now, and buy and sell a few youngsters to pay for them all!!
The Oliver T's of this world are real exceptions, the rest are probably struggling, but with good financial help from parents or whatever.
tigers_eye
Well-Known Member
QR
This is an excellent thread with loads of interesting points. I haven't read the article in H&H that prompted it as I don't get the magazine. I think as far as eventing goes you have to remember it is a hugely popular equestrian discipline in the UK, and thanks to that popularity there is room for people to earn a living from it, directly or less so. Here that just isn't possible. There are people who event who work fulltime in horses, as livery yard owners/managers, grooms/riders, or as dealers, but you don't really hear people here saying "I'm an eventer", no, it's more like "I'm a rider/dealer/instructor who events". Karin Donckers is the only professional eventer as I understand the term, and she breeds almost all of her horses, has some loyal owners (although her family own many), doesn't have all the gear by any means, and due to her excellent sporting results (judged across all sports) is the only rider in Belgium I believe to receive a large annual sum from the Flemish Government.
From my own experience I did the Junior Europeans on a good horse who went on to have good form in the YR ranks too, and was entered for Badminton when I was 20, however that horse broke down. I've ridden several others since then, and of the 3 that I've owned 2 more have got to advanced and one to 2* before I sold him. Being a pro rider has never really been a consideration though, and now I'm a bit older (26) I am training for a new career (my 4 year degree doesn't actually qualify me for anything useful... History & French), which will earn me a decent salary and flexible hours. It will also mean I can actually think about things like mortgages and pensions, because I am tired of feeling poor as a church mouse.
This is an excellent thread with loads of interesting points. I haven't read the article in H&H that prompted it as I don't get the magazine. I think as far as eventing goes you have to remember it is a hugely popular equestrian discipline in the UK, and thanks to that popularity there is room for people to earn a living from it, directly or less so. Here that just isn't possible. There are people who event who work fulltime in horses, as livery yard owners/managers, grooms/riders, or as dealers, but you don't really hear people here saying "I'm an eventer", no, it's more like "I'm a rider/dealer/instructor who events". Karin Donckers is the only professional eventer as I understand the term, and she breeds almost all of her horses, has some loyal owners (although her family own many), doesn't have all the gear by any means, and due to her excellent sporting results (judged across all sports) is the only rider in Belgium I believe to receive a large annual sum from the Flemish Government.
From my own experience I did the Junior Europeans on a good horse who went on to have good form in the YR ranks too, and was entered for Badminton when I was 20, however that horse broke down. I've ridden several others since then, and of the 3 that I've owned 2 more have got to advanced and one to 2* before I sold him. Being a pro rider has never really been a consideration though, and now I'm a bit older (26) I am training for a new career (my 4 year degree doesn't actually qualify me for anything useful... History & French), which will earn me a decent salary and flexible hours. It will also mean I can actually think about things like mortgages and pensions, because I am tired of feeling poor as a church mouse.
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
When Shelia Wilcox wrote "Training the Event Horse" she rightly said that most riders became successful because they had a very talented horse, and the fact that you ended up with it was good fortune! If you read the stories of most of the well known eventing names they started out with one really good horse.
Of course it is all very different now, the number of events, the structure of the sport and frankly the professionalism. I also remember someone saying that looking for sponsorship was to get someone else to pay for your good fun.
There will always be owners who want to have their horses ridden and see them compete, like having a racehorse in training, or people with a really good horse who think that they have taken it far enough and don't have the time/bottle to take it further up the grades.
But I think to earn a living will be the just the same as all other riders - buying and selling or teaching.
Of course it is all very different now, the number of events, the structure of the sport and frankly the professionalism. I also remember someone saying that looking for sponsorship was to get someone else to pay for your good fun.
There will always be owners who want to have their horses ridden and see them compete, like having a racehorse in training, or people with a really good horse who think that they have taken it far enough and don't have the time/bottle to take it further up the grades.
But I think to earn a living will be the just the same as all other riders - buying and selling or teaching.