so confused, cushings pony...

tango'smum

tango'smum

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he was diognosed this time last year, acth levels 375 went on prascend they came down to 26.. 2 months tested again they where 95, so put tablets upto 1 1/2 a day, tested again they went up again to 138. so upto 2 tablets a day.. testing again in a month.... hes in his 20's. seems ok though quiet but then hes always been laid back.. i have had him 11-12 yrs.. test also came back that hes very insulin resistent.. i really dont know what to do for the best.. as its a brain tumor surely hes in some sort of pain?? :confused:
will his levels come down come spring? i dont ride him anymore, maybe once in a blue moon.. do i put shoes back on? hes not happy barefoot.. had laminitis a few times... all 4 p/b's rotated... but are fine now.. hes sound, but not happy on stones... what would you all do?? i'm pulling my hair out!!!! ..
 
Could the medication itself be affecting him - ie making him quiet/depressed?

Footy on stones is fine, providing he's only walking over them briefly (walking out of the field for instance, if the gateway is a bit stony).

How does he look in his coat and eye?

Could it be time to consider his future?
 
tango'smum said:
he was diognosed this time last year, acth levels 375 went on prascend they came down to 26.. 2 months tested again they where 95, so put tablets upto 1 1/2 a day, tested again they went up again to 138. so upto 2 tablets a day.. testing again in a month.... hes in his 20's. seems ok though quiet but then hes always been laid back.. i have had him 11-12 yrs.. test also came back that hes very insulin resistent.. i really dont know what to do for the best.. as its a brain tumor surely hes in some sort of pain?? :confused:will his levels come down come spring? i dont ride him anymore, maybe once in a blue moon.. do i put shoes back on? hes not happy barefoot.. had laminitis a few times... all 4 p/b's rotated... but are fine now.. hes sound, but not happy on stones... what would you all do?? i'm pulling my hair out!!!! ..
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Sadly lost my mare a year ago to this nearly a year ago to the day, I decided not to treat (her levels were Much higher) but as it is a brain tumor at the end of the day, Just because levels come down they still dont know what their pain levels are doing.

As I didnt treat (DO NOT ATTACK me there is a LOT more to the situation) I dont know when they expect levels to come down.

Good luck with everything I know how hard it all is x
 
amymay said:
Could the medication itself be affecting him - ie making him quiet/depressed?

Footy on stones is fine, providing he's only walking over them briefly (walking out of the field for instance, if the gateway is a bit stony).

How does he look in his coat and eye?

Could it be time to consider his future?
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yes its only going to the field.... i did ask the vet about pain he said he would not be in pain as normally age or something else gets them before they get any pain from it... coat hes looking rough... eye not sure hard to tell really.. i can see the whites of his eyes which is something i have never seen before, noticed it a couple of months ago... vet didnt seem worried.. i'll put some pics on in a bit...
 
KierelyMiss said:
Sadly lost my mare a year ago to this nearly a year ago to the day, I decided not to treat (her levels were Much higher) but as it is a brain tumor at the end of the day, Just because levels come down they still dont know what their pain levels are doing.

As I didnt treat (DO NOT ATTACK me there is a LOT more to the situation) I dont know when they expect levels to come down.

Good luck with everything I know how hard it all is x
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thankyou... i did debate whether to treat or not. i know a few people who dont, some think i am nasty for treating it.. but still..:rolleyes:
 
tango'smum said:
thankyou... i did debate whether to treat or not. i know a few people who dont, some think i am nasty for treating it.. but still..:rolleyes:
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I would never judge. Every situation is different. My mare was 25, kept getting colic, kept getting stuck down and was disappearing in front of my eyes, and coming in to winter I wanted her to go why she was peaceful x
 
this is him yesterday morning..
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Well, he looks ok in those photo's (coat wise) although I appreciate that as a grey it's not always easy to tell in a photo.

Agghhh, I don't know what to say really. Other than have a frank conversation with your vet about his quality of life / happiness and go from there.
 
amymay said:
Well, he looks ok in those photo's (coat wise) although I appreciate that as a grey it's not always easy to tell in a photo.

Agghhh, I don't know what to say really. Other than have a frank conversation with your vet about his quality of life / happiness and go from there.
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thankyou amymay...
this is him only 2-3 yrs ago...
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.i told the vet i think he should be pts but he seems to think hes fine...
 
Ah he looks well, My Mare was a hat wrack literally over night.

If he is starting to struggle then best thing is to discuss everything with your vet.
 
i told the vet i think he should be pts but he seems to think hes fine..
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If that's what you think - make the appointment to have him pts, either by the vet or the hunt. Your pony, your decision.

(I must say from the little you've said on this thread, I wouldn't argue with you - but I don't know enough about cushings and the medication really, to comment with any real conviction).
 
i really dont know what to do for the best..:( really struggling.. i need someone to come see him thats not seen him for a while.. i think if you spend every day with them you dont really notice... but i have been looking through old pics of him... hes really changed..:(
 
Don't look at old photos - because he will have changed, obviously.

There's only one question you need answered (and only you can do that) is the pony happy?
 
amymay said:
Don't look at old photos - because he will have changed, obviously.

There's only one question you need answered (and only you can do that) is the pony happy?
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seems to be... my partner went to get him in last night as i had to work late, he would'nt let him catch him.. lol hes not done that for ages.. so he stayed out all night naked... but then some days you look at him and think hes not happy, just nothing there, ..
 
We have the same dilemma - TB x diagnosed in summer - tablets now up to 2 1/2 a day, waiting for test results soon. He seems ok eyes/coat/weight etc but is incredibly lethargic/dopey - almost seems stoned (this was pre medication, but not really a noticeable difference with meds). He used to be incredibly sharp - I don't think he is in pain, but has just lost all his sparkle - although some days he is a lot better. We thought we'd see what the latest results show, and how he seems over the winter. No advice, sorry, really difficult decision though and I know what you are going through. The old advice, rather a week too early than a day too late, is what I keep thinking of - and I agree, seeing them every day means gradual changes are less noticeable. The vet told us the same re pain though, but to look out to see if he kept trying to aggressively rub head as this could be a sign of pain.
 
I actually think he looks absolutely fine to be honest, his weight is good and of course he's going to look different now than he did a few years back. I also don't think this year has been that good for horses with regards to their coats. As it's been miserable and we've never has any real long spells of decent, warm weather I've felt that our lot haven't looked as good as they have done in previous years.
We had an old pony years back -never knew how old he actually was as we were a little naive shall we say when we purchased him as a supposedly 13 yo. An instructor who later looked at his teeth said he was nearer 30 than 13! Oops.

Anyway, towards the end he looked pretty ropey - he never held weight well anyway. he also grew a long shaggy coat but, back then cushings wasn't really known about. I do wonder if he had it. The vet would see him and we did ask about his quality of life and should we keep him going (he was thin and had hardly any teeth left). The vet's opinion was that as he was happy in himself (he still trotted in for his tea) and was eating and drinking fine and his general health and vital signs were normal, that we should leave him be and he was not suffering.

My personal opinion from your pics are he looks well in himself and his eyes look bright (from what I can see). However, I don't know your horse, only you know him.

So, that's what we did and he went on for a fair few years after that. Ultimately it's your decision and in general I would say base it on how you feel the horse's quality of life is. I'm one of those who believe's you do just know when it's time. We've been through it before, you can see it and you know then's the right decision
 
Is he on that grass for long periods? If he's footy & has a lami history, i wouldn't have him on anything near that 'lush'/dense. My cushings mare is 16 months post diagnosis & has never had lami *touches lots of wood!* We had her bloods re-tested 3 months after the first lot, but not since. I'd ignore the bloods & just go by how he is in himself.
What's his diet like? Have u got him on magnesium oxide? :)
 
I'm going through this at the minute with my horse, he didn't have a reading as high as yours with the ACTH test but the change in him after being on the medication for a while has been significant. He wasn't holding condition, it is still difficult and we are changing his diet and gradually making progress. He does have a couple of additional issues relating to the GGT marker and another one which we are now trying to address.

Whilst being on the meds (were at day 29) he was initially back to his old self, then he had a 'dark' couple of days and he has come through those. The second test has indicated it is under control. Once his dietery changes have been phased in (his current diet isn't working) and it has been another 4 weeks he will be tested again. He is on a lot of mix and I am changing him to a balancer and low sugar alternatives. Whilst this hasn't been advised by the Vet I don't like the amount of sugar he is recieving, his GGT is elevated which would suggest his liver is under stress (which the Vet agress but wants to stablise the ACTH first) which could be due to being mildly insulin resistant.

It is difficult, I've had him a long time, but I refuse to watch him suffer. If after trying all the options available he is not improving in health and regaining the weight he needs then it will be time. We are not there yet though!

Give your horse every opportunity you can, but listen to what he is showing and telling you. You are the person above all others that knows your horse and your Vet should listen and go on the information you provide.

Old age is natural and everything has to age you have to identify this from the effects of illness though!

I hope things improve for you and your friend ;)
 
thanks all.. hes on that grass, fenced off tiny bit for 6 hours. just moved fields for the winter.. he get fast fibre hi-fi lite, and soaked haylage over night...and formula for feet..
 
Keimanp said:
I'm going through this at the minute with my horse, he didn't have a reading as high as yours with the ACTH test but the change in him after being on the medication for a while has been significant. He wasn't holding condition, it is still difficult and we are changing his diet and gradually making progress. He does have a couple of additional issues relating to the GGT marker and another one which we are now trying to address.

Whilst being on the meds (were at day 29) he was initially back to his old self, then he had a 'dark' couple of days and he has come through those. The second test has indicated it is under control. Once his dietery changes have been phased in (his current diet isn't working) and it has been another 4 weeks he will be tested again. He is on a lot of mix and I am changing him to a balancer and low sugar alternatives. Whilst this hasn't been advised by the Vet I don't like the amount of sugar he is recieving, his GGT is elevated which would suggest his liver is under stress (which the Vet agress but wants to stablise the ACTH first) which could be due to being mildly insulin resistant.

It is difficult, I've had him a long time, but I refuse to watch him suffer. If after trying all the options available he is not improving in health and regaining the weight he needs then it will be time. We are not there yet though!

Give your horse every opportunity you can, but listen to what he is showing and telling you. You are the person above all others that knows your horse and your Vet should listen and go on the information you provide.

Old age is natural and everything has to age you have to identify this from the effects of illness though!

I hope things improve for you and your friend ;)
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thankyou :) feeling a bit better now...
 
I really feel for you - I had 2 of mine diagnosed with Cushings a week ago, so they have gone on Pergolide and will have bloods rechecked in 6 weeks.

One of them has been lame from a back problem and was being treated for that, but is still not right, so I had decided to give him the winter off and see how he is in the Spring, but now with Cushings as well ..... sometimes its so hard to know what to do to be right, especially when you get such conflicting advice from the "experts". :confused:

Huge hugs, and I hope you can find your way to whatever is the right decision. x
 
ladyt25 said:
I actually think he looks absolutely fine to be honest, his weight is good and of course he's going to look different now than he did a few years back. I also don't think this year has been that good for horses with regards to their coats. As it's been miserable and we've never has any real long spells of decent, warm weather I've felt that our lot haven't looked as good as they have done in previous years.
We had an old pony years back -never knew how old he actually was as we were a little naive shall we say when we purchased him as a supposedly 13 yo. An instructor who later looked at his teeth said he was nearer 30 than 13! Oops.

Anyway, towards the end he looked pretty ropey - he never held weight well anyway. he also grew a long shaggy coat but, back then cushings wasn't really known about. I do wonder if he had it. The vet would see him and we did ask about his quality of life and should we keep him going (he was thin and had hardly any teeth left). The vet's opinion was that as he was happy in himself (he still trotted in for his tea) and was eating and drinking fine and his general health and vital signs were normal, that we should leave him be and he was not suffering.

My personal opinion from your pics are he looks well in himself and his eyes look bright (from what I can see). However, I don't know your horse, only you know him.

So, that's what we did and he went on for a fair few years after that. Ultimately it's your decision and in general I would say base it on how you feel the horse's quality of life is. I'm one of those who believe's you do just know when it's time. We've been through it before, you can see it and you know then's the right decision
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THis ^^^ he seems well and in good condition to me so I'm with the vet. Yes he is your horse but why pts when the quality of life is good. I agree you will know when and chances are it will feel very different to now as they do tell you. We have a 32 plus something at home and he is a great character and still gets alot out of life. The vet came to do teeth yesterday and did him for nothing because he was sooo cute and not many teeth. He trots in for tea, escapes, rolls and throws the odd buck and fart when in the mood, he is the most loving boy. He gets footy sometimes but this is managed by balancing the drugs and shoeing to take pressure off frogs. He looks spaced out some times but no more than any pensioner having a nap. We are discussing changing his feed to simple systems soaked comp mix when his loose teeth come out and giving a soaked grass too- he is worth every effort. I really do feel oldies are smashing he is not my horse but we love him to bits and he is welcome here forever.
 
He looks well and happy - there are many horses with IR and/or Cushings who live long and productive lives with the correct treatment - but a lot depends if you want all the faff of limiting grazing etc. I've not read all the post so don't know if anyone else has pointed you this way but you may want to look at www.ecirhorse.com and perhaps even join the ECIR horse Yahoo group.
 
He certainly doesn't look unhappy to me. I really don't think that the majority of cushings horses are in pain. The pituitory is behind the brain and situated in the soft tissue of the head. Even if it enlarges it does not cause pressure like other brain tumors do either inside the brain or on its surface. So that would not worry me too much. It is puzzling why his levels have gone up. Maybe its the insulin resistance that is interfering with things and confusing the issue? If he seems happy in himself then I would just keep him on two prascend. I don't think raising the dosage is making a huge amount of difference, and it's expensive! If he is sore then you could get him some boots to wear some of the time when he isn't on the grass.
 
Shivvy said:
Off topic but Wagtail your signature verse is lovely when I read it I fill up thinking of when I lost my boy in the summer.
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I know. It is such a lovely song. My sister adopted it for her lad who she lost a few years ago.Every year on the anniversary of his death we scatter more of his ashes here, under an oak tree and play that song. So sorry you lost your boy. It can make you well up for a long time afterwards.
 
Wagtail said:
I know. It is such a lovely song. My sister adopted it for her lad who she lost a few years ago.Every year on the anniversary of his death we scatter more of his ashes here, under an oak tree and play that song. So sorry you lost your boy. It can make you well up for a long time afterwards.
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Thanks. So true think I will always well up.
 
Tangosmum, this won't help, but I have a similar situation with my oldie cushings horse, it is such a delicate balancing act of quality of life/health and the one thing I am sure of is that I will get it very wrong from time to time

All Summer he has been out during the day with the horses and in a stavation paddock with rubbish hay at night.

I have just decided that now the grass has stopped growing I am going to now leave him out almost 24/7 (he comes in for a few hours a day). I am hoping that the other horses he is with will keep him moving around and that will balance the trauma of him being out - but who knows, its all trial and error but I do know that if he can't cope with that then maybe this is the time?

So all I can say if I feel for you, its horrible having to play god?
 
He looks good..Do you find his crest gets thicker and thinner?.In those photo's his does seem quite cresty..My big lad is Insulin Resistant and his crest goes up and down on a regular basis although management has not changed..
 
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