So exactly how much research did you do before getting your dog?

CaveCanem said:
Of course there are loved mongrels out there, but going back to my original point, if you are looking for a dog and a GSD x Husky becomes available, if you live in an unsuitable space, can't offer a lot of stimulation for a cross like that, then better that you do a bit of research and go for a calmer, more suitable cross than have it eat your house, eat itself, run away or have to be rehomed, etc.

Collie and labs and GSDs are one thing but there are a lot of other high drive breeds out there that are being bred, and bred together, and being sold to unsuitable homes (a combination of shyster breeders and potential buyers over-egging their capabilities) when a bit of research into what makes a good breeder and what type of dog would suit your home would go a long way.
Go on Gumtree and read ads for 'Staffie x Collie' 'Rottie x Akita' and 'Husky x Alsatian' and 'Wolf hybrid' - aye, right....the sales pitch is 'lovely markings' 'cute' 'chunky' 'fluffy' '£££' 'will make good guard dog' not 'will grow massive' 'will need a tonne of exercise' 'will need brain stimulation, not shut in a yard to be used as a breathing burglar alarm' 'might chase livestock' - which is what a bit of research might tell you.
There are a glut of puppies out there being sold on the strength that they look cool/cute/striking, purebred and cross, but are completely unsuitable for the average low-energy pet home and can be prone to health issues and the poor owners have to pick up the pieces.
THAT is why I am so keen that people do their research, especially having owned a Lab/Foxhound/JRT mix - ARGH!!! :p
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Just to pick up on CC's excellent post above, I guess I did actually do some research in that I made sure that the two parents were of compatible breeds (lab and standard poodle - similar sizes, similar energy levels, similar 'drive', no common prevalent health problems), and that the lifestyle I can offer is suitable. I didn't just think they looked cute and had a fun name :p

Little point to this post, other than to try to distance myself from your sterotypical 'designer cross breed' owner... :D
 
My ex many years ago, had a samoyed x lab, and so our first dog was naturally a sammy (sort of wish we'd picked the lab part lol).
That was nearly 25 years ago, and I've had sams eversince and wouldn't be without one.
We researched the malamutes and spent 3 years finding a breeder that we were happy with, that bred mainly for temprament (with the relevant hip and eye test done obviously)
Now we have had our pups for 4 weeks and nothings prepared us for the forces of nature that these pups are :D
They are just so feral, compared to samoyeds. Love them to bits, and certainly don't regret having them, but they are hard work - hehehe!
 
Broodle said:
I confess that I did very little in the way of actual research, but I met both parents of both my pups and was fully satisfied that they were friendly, biddable, well cared for etc. Also saw photos of dogs from previous litters and some letters from happy owners. Of course, I had no proof that any of this was genuine - I just had to trust the breeder.

Mine are crosses (horror of horrors :D), but even if I had gone for pure breeds I am not sure that I would have placed too much emphasis on breed-specific research - to me (rightly or wrongly) the most important thing was/is what the parents are like. But then mine are only pets, and I am not involved in working or showing circles so wouldn't know anything about pedigree lines etc. It had to be enough that I liked the breeder and liked her dogs. I imagine this is the same for most pet owners like me tbh.
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Broodle, if you were doing it again, and knew that labs and standard poodles both get hip dysplasia and that breeding animals should have low hip scores, would you insist on low hip scores (you didn't mention it in your post, apologies if this is the case)?
Mine are 'only' pets as well, I just got bitten by a bug of a hobby but that is secondary to the fact that my dogs live in our home as companions.
I don't show, I don't breed and am dipping my toe into work.
Outcrossing to different breeds does not cancel the risk if the dog is not scored and both breeds are prone to the condition.

I know you say yours are 'only' pets, that to me does not mean that breeders can wriggle out of health tests. Pet dogs also get hip dysplasia, I know more dogs in pet homes with HD than in competition homes, although it is still a small number, indeed there are a couple of people on here, some with crossbreds, who's dogs have hip dysplasia, there seems to be a misconception that only working and show people need to be concerned about hereditary conditions, they can strike any dog if it is in the lines and have the potential to cause misery and at the very least need medication/supplements and modified/managed exercise for life.

Sorry to repeat myself, but 'nice' pet dogs and 'nice' breeders and health testing, are not mutually exclusive :)
 
as i child we always had rough collies,beautiful intelligent dogs, when i left home i had a rough collie X border collie ,again sensitive beautiful intelligent dog .when he died of old age my OH deceided in his wisdom to have the breed hed always wanted since a child - an English Bull Terrier _not my cup of tea at all but heyho give and take and all that, so we went to our local highly respected breeder to have a chat and low and behold they had a litter -we came home with a stunning little thing who we called Bod . I have to say the funniest dog ive ever had-he is a total clown who spends 23 out of 24hrs a day welded to the sofa and has to be forced to go for a walk! the children can do anything to him hes a wonderful house dog .but boy im glad for insurance-he would have cost us a fortune as he has a number of health issues.:D
 
I had never had a dog of my own before. But had been around so many different types that I knew what I liked as well as what I didn't and what would not suit.

I spent hours on the internet reading about the short list of breeds that we liked, although German Shorthaired Pointer was always our preference, if I had read something ro someone had said something that was really negative I wouldn't have got one. The only negative was that we only had a 2 bed end of terrace! But he is out and about so much with me, it really wasn't a deal breaker.

Luckily GSPs don't really suffer from health problems compared to other breeds, but I still made sure that I found a litter that met the recomended health tests. The breeder we found was breeding to keep one, which I always feel is the best reason (not just to make money!), infact she kept 3! She was a real softie! She also interviewed me on the phone for nearly an hour! Which impressed me. She liked me too as I had 1st pick :)

I'm happy with our decision. We'll definitly be getting another in a few years time! I now know Harleys Dad's owner really well who breeds/shows/judges and although I think I did pretty well choosing Harley, I'll ask her to help me select another! :)
 
CaveCanem said:
I know you say yours are 'only' pets, that to me does not mean that breeders can wriggle out of health tests. Pet dogs also get hip dysplasia, I know more dogs in pet homes with HD than in competition homes, although it is still a small number, indeed there are a couple of people on here, some with crossbreds, who's dogs have hip dysplasia, there seems to be a misconception that only working and show people need to be concerned about hereditary conditions, they can strike any dog if it is in the lines and have the potential to cause misery and at the very least need medication/supplements and modified/managed exercise for life.

Sorry to repeat myself, but 'nice' pet dogs and 'nice' breeders and health testing, are not mutually exclusive :)
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Sorry to hijack this - but...

I know of a few breeders (some poodles, some other breeds).

The ones that I know breed from carefully selected lines, have done the health screens and their overall GOAL is to get a litter which yields healthy pups to further improve the breed. They wish to have the next generation of show pups to take in to the ring, or to work, or to do what ever it is that the breed is used for. The balance of those pups which are not show quality will go to carefully selected pet homes....usually a wait list is used. And those that aren't placed are kept until they have found homes. And all the offspring, regardless of the age or the situation, have a contract which states that the dog must not be sold or rehomed with anyone but the breeder. There are no guarantees that none of these pups will ever have health issues. But these are people who are passionate about doing what's best for the breed overall.
 
CaveCanem said:
Broodle, if you were doing it again, and knew that labs and standard poodles both get hip dysplasia and that breeding animals should have low hip scores, would you insist on low hip scores (you didn't mention it in your post, apologies if this is the case)?
Mine are 'only' pets as well, I just got bitten by a bug of a hobby but that is secondary to the fact that my dogs live in our home as companions.
I don't show, I don't breed and am dipping my toe into work.
Outcrossing to different breeds does not cancel the risk if the dog is not scored and both breeds are prone to the condition.

I know you say yours are 'only' pets, that to me does not mean that breeders can wriggle out of health tests. Pet dogs also get hip dysplasia, I know more dogs in pet homes with HD than in competition homes, although it is still a small number, indeed there are a couple of people on here, some with crossbreds, who's dogs have hip dysplasia, there seems to be a misconception that only working and show people need to be concerned about hereditary conditions, they can strike any dog if it is in the lines and have the potential to cause misery and at the very least need medication/supplements and modified/managed exercise for life.

Sorry to repeat myself, but 'nice' pet dogs and 'nice' breeders and health testing, are not mutually exclusive :)
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I'll be honest and say that I was wholly ingnorant about hip scoring when I bought both pups - I saw it in adverts etc, but didn't have a clue what numbers were good and what were bad :o and (wrongly) kind of ignored it. I read (what seemed) a good book about different breeds and their traits etc, and std poodles were not listed as prone to HD... Is this wrong? If so, I guess my research, such as it was, was pretty pants :o Although, I should say that I had no illusions that cross breeds are somehow healthier/less prone to heritable conditions than pure breeds.

Having been educated on here to a certain extent about hip scoring, then if I now had the choice of two litters, one with well hip scored parents and one without, then I would choose the former. But, rightly or wrongly, I guess I would not rule out a dog from a non-scored mating if I knew for sure that the breeder had bred many generations with no hip problems... I think Ravenwood has a good point there. And, as far as I understand it, low hip scores in the parents is no guarantee of good hips in the pups - it's essentially just risk mitigation which could pay off or could not.

So, that was all a long-winded way of saying that I'm the kind of irresponsible numpty puppy buyer that you complain of on here :eek::D

*disclaimer - that was tounge in cheek, honest!*
 
I never researched if GSDs were the breed for me, when I was born my mother had a kennel full so I had little choice:p. All the shepherds I have had over the years have been from my mums/my lines, which of course I knew well, and all sires were researched for temperament, health tests etc. I have been considering what dog I will use on Evie for at least 6 months, and hope anyone having a puppy from her (hopefully, don't want to count chickens), will also do their research and appreciate I have done mine. I have not chose they most high drive working dog as I am aware that I will probably be selling to pet homes and so super hard working dogs might not be suitable. So far those interested include 2 people who had their previous dogs from me, people who are looking for a pup in the spring and have started making enquiries now, and possibly pathfinder guide dogs.

When we got our first Lancashire Heeler 20 years ago I had seen one competing in agility and fallen for her and her character, and as we were looking for a smaller dog for my daughter to handle (a 3 year old and a GSD didn't always work;)) decided a heeler was the ideal breed. It took a while to find a pup from the lines we wanted, but she was a great dog for 15 years. Pickle our latest LH was something of an impulse buy, I blame Dobiegirl for giving daughter ideas. Having said that we made sure we found a litter where both parents were health tested, and carrying lines similar to our old girl.

ETS. Should add that my reason for breeding from Evie is to have a puppy to keep, not to pay for a conservatory :)
 
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British Bulldog - lived in a garden flat in London and wanted a small dog but not a ' lap' dog. Best breed ever. Did a lot of reading and assessment was very accurate.

Bullmastiffs - did loads of research and this put me off in some ways as it was all about not a breed for the faint hearted and not to be taken on lightly, talked about was giving a strong ' lead' or dog would take advantage and if you hadn't got training under your belt early it would be too late as dogs size would make him take advantage of you blah blah, make him very well socialised early on or he may not take too well to stranagers ( common sense really ) so I rang a breeder who gave me a much more positive breed assesment.

Then saw a photo of my first girl in rescue and fell in love with her face. Brought her home and she is the most beautful loving dog I have ever owned, a sheer joy. She loves everyone and everything and they love her.

Second bullmastiff arrives from a rescue again and had a lot more issues but these stem from her bad start in life and again she is just so loving.

Not the big brutish guard dogs I was lead to believe by these magazine articles etc.

I will now only ever own bullbreeds, I absolutely love them.
 
UNCLEAN! BURN HER! :p :p :p

Of course the hip scoring system is no failsafe but it is a support system, a safety net, a better guarantee.
There have been dogs in the past who's hips were good but they threw bad hips - only scoring the progeny could reveal this and prevent further heartache down the line by comparing those plates with the progeny from the same female with different males, identifying that stud as the problem and therefore forcing his owners to retire him from stud and reducing future risk, if that makes any sense?!

Re the breeding many gens of dogs with no hip problems - there is no way to say that a dog does not have hip or elbow problems *without* x-rays, our friends had a bitch with terrible hips (a total score in the 80s, the scale stops at a total of 102) who moved like a dream, a flying machine - while it caused her no problem, she was not bred from as they did not want to take the chance of perpetuating the problems.

They could have not x-rayed her, bred her thinking she had no problem because she moved so beautifully, but it was only her conformation and her muscle structure and, hey, luck! that kept her so mobile, and her progeny could have been cripples.

As mentioned on another thread, there is a breed champion with a score of 50 on one hip, 0 on the other, so more than likely accidental with such an uneven score and a good score on the other hip - however the breeder has taken the responsible decision not to breed from him. Seeing him move around the ring, you would never know.
Only hip scoring could reveal the issue.

These are examples of why scoring breeds prone to HD is so important, IMO.
What lies beneath!
 
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Just to add what CC says about hip problems not showing up. I had a beautiful little bitch with the most superb movement who had a successful show career. She was x rayed at just over 12 months and had the most atrocious hips (this was prior to the scoring scheme but her hips were later scored in the 90s). She never had a days lameness in her life and won veteran classes on her movement. However her breeders had repeated the mating (before I had her x rayed) and one of the pups in the resulting litter was terribly unsound from a few weeks old, she was x rayed at 10 weeks and found to have the most awful hips and was pts. So 2 dogs with the same problem, one showing no symptoms and the other who never reached adulthood:(, the only way to know for sure about hip and elbow problems is to x ray.
 
Ravenwood said:
So really, I reiterate - surely education is the way forward, are you perhaps preaching to the converted? How would you go about creating a world where someone like me couldn't just buy a GSD (even a registered one) if I had no intention of competing but just wanting a pet? Research? Can you be sure that I am intelligent enough not to be swayed by the advocates of any particular breed that they are not perfect for me because lets face it all breed societies (whether dogs/horses/sheep etc) will tell you that their breed is best :)
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That's an interesting point that people do always say their breed is best. However although the GSP sites obv say what a great dog they are, they do try and put off 1st time dog owners. In fact many breeders website specifically say that they will not sell to a 1st time dog owner or even someone who has not had a GSP before! I was quite concerned that noone was going to sell me one at one point! They also hammer home the fact these are countryside dogs, not to be kept in cities/housing estates.

They are wise to do so, because keeping a GSP in a non-oudoorsy home where they only get a walk round the block or maybe the local park would be a nightmare!
 
CaveCanem said:
UNCLEAN! BURN HER! :p :p :p

Of course the hip scoring system is no failsafe but it is a support system, a safety net, a better guarantee.
There have been dogs in the past who's hips were good but they threw bad hips - only scoring the progeny could reveal this and prevent further heartache down the line by comparing those plates with the progeny from the same female with different males, identifying that stud as the problem and therefore forcing his owners to retire him from stud and reducing future risk, if that makes any sense?!

Re the breeding many gens of dogs with no hip problems - there is no way to say that a dog does not have hip or elbow problems *without* x-rays, our friends had a bitch with terrible hips (a total score in the 80s, the scale stops at a total of 102) who moved like a dream, a flying machine - while it caused her no problem, she was not bred from as they did not want to take the chance of perpetuating the problems.

They could have not x-rayed her, bred her thinking she had no problem because she moved so beautifully, but it was only her conformation and her muscle structure and, hey, luck! that kept her so mobile, and her progeny could have been cripples.

As mentioned on another thread, there is a breed champion with a score of 50 on one hip, 0 on the other, so more than likely accidental with such an uneven score and a good score on the other hip - however the breeder has taken the responsible decision not to breed from him. Seeing him move around the ring, you would never know.
Only hip scoring could reveal the issue.

These are examples of why scoring breeds prone to HD is so important, IMO.
What lies beneath!
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Actually LOL! :D

The more I read on here the better educated I am, so thank you for your wise words! It does make me think though that there is a good argument for implementing some easy reference idiot-proof way for the non-expert numpty puppy buyer (me :p) to understand what hip scores really mean... Like the red-amber-green system some supermarkets use to help people understand what foods are bad for them. I know there is no substitute for research, and it isn't really that hard in this internet age, but I am an educated scientific type person and my response to the numbers was to think 'don't understand, too hard, move on' :eek::o So, there is probably no hope for your average chav :o
 
Broodle said:
I'll be honest and say that I was wholly ingnorant about hip scoring when I bought both pups - I saw it in adverts etc, but didn't have a clue what numbers were good and what were bad :o and (wrongly) kind of ignored it. I read (what seemed) a good book about different breeds and their traits etc, and std poodles were not listed as prone to HD... Is this wrong? If so, I guess my research, such as it was, was pretty pants :o Although, I should say that I had no illusions that cross breeds are somehow healthier/less prone to heritable conditions than pure breeds.

Having been educated on here to a certain extent about hip scoring, then if I now had the choice of two litters, one with well hip scored parents and one without, then I would choose the former. But, rightly or wrongly, I guess I would not rule out a dog from a non-scored mating if I knew for sure that the breeder had bred many generations with no hip problems... I think Ravenwood has a good point there. And, as far as I understand it, low hip scores in the parents is no guarantee of good hips in the pups - it's essentially just risk mitigation which could pay off or could not.

So, that was all a long-winded way of saying that I'm the kind of irresponsible numpty puppy buyer that you complain of on here :eek::D

*disclaimer - that was tounge in cheek, honest!*
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Don't beat yourself up, there's plenty of evidence to suggest that there is an environmental element to HD especially with the large breeds
 
Ravenwood, most breeders of course think their breed is the best, that is one reason why I am suspicious of breeders who have a multitude of breeds, however that shouldn't mean they will try and sell a pup to someone who they feel isn't right for the breed. Over the years I have quite a large number of people that I don't think a GSD is the breed for them, and often received abuse when I won't sell them a pup. However I would happily sell a pup to someone who doesn't want to compete but just wants a pet, however I would make sure that they realised they would still have to keep the dogs brain occupied or they would be heading for trouble. I have not competed my dogs for the last 12 years, not because they weren't good enough but because I really don't have time. However they have all been trained, and done bits of agility, tracking etc for fun.
 
Broodle said:
Actually LOL! :D

The more I read on here the better educated I am, so thank you for your wise words! It does make me think though that there is a good argument for implementing some easy reference idiot-proof way for the non-expert numpty puppy buyer (me :p) to understand what hip scores really mean... Like the red-amber-green system some supermarkets use to help people understand what foods are bad for them. I know there is no substitute for research, and it isn't really that hard in this internet age, but I am an educated scientific type person and my response to the numbers was to think 'don't understand, too hard, move on' :eek::o So, there is probably no hope for your average chav :o
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Well the idiot's guide to the hip scoring scheme is that the best score is 0:0 and elbows is 0.
Worst total for hips is a total of 102 or something and hips is 3.
I start to get itchy when score totals for hips start to go into the mid teens, so I think a total of 12 on a dog would be the limit for me.

Like Fellewelle said and I alluded to in a couple of posts, it can be environmental, like the champion dog I mentioned who is 0:50 and is highly likely to be accidental, but his breeders are responsible and are not taking any chances and is still not a reason not to insist on good hip scores on breeding animals :)
 
Broodle, these 2 links give some idea what a puppy purchaser should be looking for in terms of health tests etc. The first is a list of requirements for the Assured Breeder scheme.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/1100/abshealthreqs.pdf

Although in my opinion it lacks teeth because although it asks for eg for hip scoring it doesn't state a maximum score.:mad:

And here is a list of the average hip scores for all breeds affected, in looking for a puppy you should be looking for parents with a below average score imho.

http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/breed_Specific_Statistics.pdf
 
Oh and if we are talking about numpties, our first litter came about because my mother didn't know not to leave a dog and bitch alone, unattended. She came home one day and there was a litter of puppies.
She then educated herself and became an exhibitor, breeder, judge, columnist in a breed magazine, translator for visiting Germans and one of the first signatories in this region to the hip scoring scheme (with the Mummy and Daddy of that first litter :p thankfully they had good scores :p)
We all have to start learning somewhere!!! And she is still a bit dippy, having said all that :p
 
First time round, with Chlo, we had absolutely no idea what we were doing. Looked on the KC website, found a breeder, visited said breeder, bought Chlo and picked her up two weeks later.

Not much suprise then, really, that she had severe hip dysplasia and was put to sleep with organ failure aged 2 and a half.

Second time round. Knew Brackens breeder. Met mum before pups were born. Breeder still owns mum, uncle, great aunt and did own grandma but she was PTS.

Met mum first, then saw puppies every week from birth til I brought him home. Parents hip scored and eye tested 13 generations back, almost all field trial champs etc.

Not a guarantee, I know, but....

Was always gonna be a lab though, no question about that and didn't even research any other breeds! Xx
 
I did enough reasearch to know, on paper, that we were the wrong home for a weimaraner (out at work all day/not especially active people/cat owners etc) on paper. Then we went and got interviewed for Herman and somehow came home with him...

He comes to work with us, he can't particularly be arsed going out (choice between walk or sofa? Sofa, every time. I've been ill for the last week and he thinks Christmas came early) and the cats have him trained. The siamese hates him and the norwegian chases him for the hell of it at times. He does have seperation anxiety but that is getting loads better, bizarrely since I lost my driving licence (! medical!) and he's had to stay at home while the OH takes me to the yard - we can now leave him for up to 4 hours which given he couldn't cope with me going to our garage and leaving him in the kitchen at the beginning of the year makes me happy.

We've been really lucky with him though, I know where 2 of his full brothers are and his full sister and had we got any of them I think we would have admitted defeat! We got Herman at 16 weeks and he is an only dog though - don't know if that makes a difference?! His siblings are all part of multidog houses....

ETA: his breeders live 2miles away, I pass there every day to go see the cob and I know if there's ever an issue with anything I can pop in and get advice/help/smack on the wrist....
 
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MM & CC - Thanks for the links and info. I still think hip/elbow scoring would be much more accessible if it were a simple case of green = ok; amber = borderline, breeding not recommended; red = bad, don't breed. Or something like that. I am really surprised that the KC don't make it this simple tbh.

Fellewelle - Thanks for the kind words! I may have been slack in my approach to puppy buying, but I hope I have done right by them since then.
 
The KC can't make anything simple! But to be fair if you look at the average scores you will see that the average varies from breed to breed so what might be acceptable for one breed is not for another, so would still need different traffic lights for each breed, far beyond the KC.:rolleyes:
 
Yeah, I've just been browsing the average score lists and can see why it would be v hard to simplify! That said, it could perhaps be green = good score in all breeds; amber = check with breed standard; red = bad score in all breeds. Ach well, no point me blathering on about this as I'm sure it'll never come to anything!
 
CaveCanem said:
Well the idiot's guide to the hip scoring scheme is that the best score is 0:0 and elbows is 0.
Worst total for hips is a total of 102 or something and hips is 3.
I start to get itchy when score totals for hips start to go into the mid teens, so I think a total of 12 on a dog would be the limit for me.

Like Fellewelle said and I alluded to in a couple of posts, it can be environmental, like the champion dog I mentioned who is 0:50 and is highly likely to be accidental, but his breeders are responsible and are not taking any chances and is still not a reason not to insist on good hip scores on breeding animals :)
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Absolutely. And I'm sure it's been well argued here but I mean the big boned pups jumping in and out of tailgates and the working strains, often bought by well meaning people but spending 23 hours on the sofa and having one hour of frantic frissbee/strenuous exercise. Not good for joints whatever the hip/elbow score:)
 
Oh I totally agree :) and that issue really isn't debated enough.
I just lifted my ten month old over a cattle grid because I couldn't get the five-bar gate open. That really, really, really hurt my back, never mind his bloody hips :o :o :o

Broodle, the Germans have a system with about three or four possible results which basically amount to
'Excellent - recommended for breeding'
'Good - very slight degree of dysplasia, but OK for breeding'
'Not so good, breed if you want, but be careful, don't say we didn't warn you'.
'No, no, no - don't even bloody think about it'.
 
CaveCanem said:
Of course there are loved mongrels out there, but going back to my original point, if you are looking for a dog and a GSD x Husky becomes available, if you live in an unsuitable space, can't offer a lot of stimulation for a cross like that, then better that you do a bit of research and go for a calmer, more suitable cross than have it eat your house, eat itself, run away or have to be rehomed, etc.
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If you didn't have me in mind when you wrote that, you should have done :o

...How close did I come to rehoming Tyson? Cayla wrote a bloody thing for him on her website. I was totally unequiped for that dog, and vastly unprepared. Honestly, I'm a preloved advert away from being one of those retards that we all love to slag off on here every day. We get on great guns now, but it took a long time for it all to come together.

I did no research before I got Tyson, and then, if that wasn't bad enough... I made the same mistake yet again and did no research before I took Bryony home. Both dogs I have struggled with, medically and behaviourally! A little bit of insight may have helped me out slightly :rolleyes:

You would hope that, if I ever do this 'dog' thing again... I will learn from this :cool:
 
My first sammy bitch, bought to show and breed from, and cos she was lovely, had a hip score of 53 eeekkkk!!! But she was from a BYB's dodgy line (Naivety on our part).
Spayed asap!
She lived a good long life, finally being PTS at 14 as her arthritis got too bad.
All our other sams have been around 3 to 9.
Hopefully our pups hips will be okay as we want to work them. Mum is 13 and dad is 6.
Wouldn't buy a dog from unscored parents now. I know it's not foolproof and environmental, and nutritional elements are involved, but it's a rough guide.
 
I just have to say that I came back to this thread with baited breath and my eyes squinting because I was terrified that I might have caused a massive argument and was expecting to see hundreds of replies telling me what a load of bollox I come out with :o (although its possible you are just too polite to say so ;) )

But no - its actually made excellent reading, informative and everyone putting their own point of view across in a diplomatic way. :D

I love debating, playing devil's advocate and just generally .... I talk to much! :o

Trying to think of another doggy topic we can get out teeth into tonight ;)
 
Ostrich said:
Maybe I am in the minority (well, except for Cayla but I don't really want to be in the same group as her :p) but as I stated on another thread I don't believe that there is any justification for getting a puppy when there are so many dogs in rescue centres - whether you get that puppy from a KC accredited breeder, a puppy farm or some back street breeder out to make a quick buck.
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I get your point, but if people want a certain breed that they truely love and are supporters for, sometimes they just don't appear in rescues. There is a GSP specific rescue, I have never seen one in a "normal" rescue, I think they tend to get returned to breeders and rehomed privately.

But maybe that just shows that some breeds have more responsible breeders? (generally, there wil always be bad apples I'm sure!)

I got a puppy because we wanted the breed, but also I am around children and animals all the time and I needed to be 100% it would be ok with both. A lot of rescues won't rehome to young children and although I have none at home, because I am around them all the time, I wouldn't tak the chance. From day 1 I (gently) manhandled Harley to make sure he'd always be 100% tolerant with children.

That is not tarring rescue dogs with the same brush, but sure you get what I'm saying. :)
 
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