So how many horses buck in response to crop on bum when riding?

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Jericho

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A bit contentious but was having a discussion today with a friend whose horse had bucked her off after she had given him a smack on his backside because he was being lazy. She had been using a lot of leg and a few taps down his shoulder to increase his activity but after not getting much response she gave him a smart smack on his rump. He promptly leapt forward, bucked and she fell off. I said I don't think that many horses actually tolerate being hit with a stick (my 3 would object with a buck in response, 1 most def does and the other 2 I just know they would, 1 being the most genuine kind hearted mare you could find). She got very cross and just said he was being naughty and throwing a strop but I don't think it's a naughtiness / stubborn thing, more of a innate fear response. She then got on and proceeded to go round giving him lots of little taps on his bum and neck. Fair enough he was better after and did move more actively after their 'disagreement' but I want sure how I felt about it. I am all for giving a horse a sharp reminder down shoulder if napping for example but I just wasn't surprised he did buck! I even knew a very safe ploddy old thing who never bucked but did pull a very cross face when given a smack to wake him a bit...

What does your horse do? And if they have bucked after a smack how do you deal with that?
 
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The vast majority would buck, if hit on the rump with a stick. I was always taught to use a stick to back up the leg, so to be used just behind the leg. I have to say that I can't see how using a stick on a horses neck/shoulder would encourage it to move forwards.
 
A smack/tap should be given just behind the riders leg. Anywhere on the rump will make a horse buck! Why on earth should it not?!
I'd far rather tap my horse behind my leg then boot/nag constantly-with either schooling whip/spurs/short whip.
I was always taught not to smack their shoulder as its in front of their movement and prohibits forward activity...
Why do use that method?

Sorry cross posted YorksG!
 
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Mine pulls a very ugly face and a snort/sigh with the odd mini buck when shes in a particularly lazy mood. Never to get me off though, and I always just carry on like it never happened. My friend has a horse though that if you even threaten to tap him behind the saddle with a crop he turns into a broncing beast and will most definitely get you off. They all respond differently! My other pony you could wave a whip around him and tap all you liked and he'd still be completely indifferent to it, although he doesn't need it as hes very responsive to the leg:)

Edit - read it wrong didn't realise it wasn't behind the leg!
 
Id only use a short crop on the shoulders for an un-balanced horse who it falling through a shoulder. Place the crop on it to re-balance him and stop him dropping it. Never as a forward aid.

Id much rather see someone back up an ignored leg aid with a tap behind than constantly niggling at them.

Out of interest, was it a short crop or dressage whip she had?
 
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1. I don't agree with hitting on the shoulder....would you like to be hit on the neck/shoulder area?

2. I only use a short crop on the bum when the horse will not go forwards through any other method.....either a more active pace, or just planted on the ground

3. When using a short crop to get the horse forward I will praise any reaction that I get when using it on the bum...as long as it is not a backwards reaction I.e. Going backwards. I do however give as much possible oppertunity to the horse to respond to the whip in a desirable way e.g. Not restricting the horse from galloping off if it wants!!! So if the horse bucks on a first smack then I will praise....it was a reaction! Which is what I wanted.

However if after that the horse has not got the idea and is not going forwards after the buck then with the next smack I will expect a response where the horse actually does go forwards, but channel the smack more towards going forwards and not giving such oppertunity to buck e.g. Shorter reins, more contact, channeled energy

But a smack on the rump is a last resort.......and I have never needed more that 1!!!

edit.....if I touched the horse with the whip when it didn't need it then it's totally entitled to buck! And I've had that before! I've learnt to be more careful!!!
 
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I think if you need to beat your horse with a stick you are doing something wrong with your training.

A tap is fine to reinforce something if you need to beat you need to take a look at yourself.
 
I was always taught to tap behind the leg to back up your aid if the horse isn't listening, I'm not surprised it bucked if it got a smack on the bum!

I very rarely use a stick on the shoulder, not quite sure what it would achieve in trying to get a horse moving forwards.
 
The whip on the shoulder won't make the horse go forward you should use the whip behind the leg if it's backing up the forward aids .
 
My old mare was very ticklish around her flanks when she was in season and used to kick out against the schooling whip. However she got used to it and though I made an effort not to carry a stick when she was in season if I did she would tolerate it.

My current mare can be very overreactive to the stick if she's in the mood. Normally she responds positively by listening to it as an aid, and moves away from it or becomes a little more active, depending on what's being asked. However once in a blue moon she kicks out at it, on her bad tempered days!
 
maccachic said:
I think if you need to beat your horse with a stick you are doing something wrong with your training.

A tap is fine to reinforce something if you need to beat you need to take a look at yourself.
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Is one smack on the rump with a short stick really 'beating' your horse? I would much rather give one effective smack that gets the horse going forwards than sit there flapping like a bird with a switched off horse. And I know in the long run which one the horse will also prefer!
 
My pony can feel a fly land on his bum - if a landed a crop there I'm sure I'd be bucked off too and wouldnt blame him. I was always taught to use the crop lightly behind the leg as an aid not a punishment. I have used the crop on the shoulder but lightly and a distraction when he's being a d**k.
 
The more I learn about horses the less I want a stick. I would only carry one while jumping ,and in my past ,racing. Steeplechasing ,you do need one for safety sake. After 3 miles on heavy going ,a horse can get into a sort of trance and bury you both. The adrenaline from a smack can be the difference between a fall and finnishing.
 
The old pony always used to tank off if he had a smack on the bum. The new horse however will buck after a smack. In fact she will buck & then back up still kicking out, she won't move forward whatsoever after a smacked arse. On the odd occasion she stops at a fence, she bucks straight after as she anticipates getting a smack before you even do it.
 
I have just recently been taught the following - squeeze, nudge, tap behind leg with schooling whip - all in quick succession if not getting a response - and I have to say Boyo is much more responsive using this method, alongside me not 'nagging' at him constantly as I used to do. He planted today and I did above and he gave up and walked on straight away - our first solo hack in months!

I don't think I would dare give him a smart smack on the rump tbh - I would be eating mud/tarmac/school surface if I tried it I imagine! ;)
 
My Appy bucks if I so much as tickle him with a whip. I was once told by a Show Jumping instructor to hit him again every time he bucked, which just ended in a never-ending battle with me getting closer and closer to getting bucked off. Needless to say, I didn't have a lesson with him again!
 
May I just say that you need to appreciate the person who taught you this. This stuff is basic but it is pure gold! reply to tank girl
 
Mike007 said:
May I just say that you need to appreciate the person who taught you this. This stuff is basic but it is pure gold! reply to tank girl
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Thanks Mike! I love my instructor he is ace, and just that one lesson made such a huge difference! I was nudging him on every stride before (novice alert), now only have to use a gentle squeeze and he ups the pace! :)

More lessons in the pipeline as soon as pennies allow ;)
 
Mike007 said:
The more I learn about horses the less I want a stick. I would only carry one while jumping ,and in my past ,racing. Steeplechasing ,you do need one for safety sake. After 3 miles on heavy going ,a horse can get into a sort of trance and bury you both. The adrenaline from a smack can be the difference between a fall and finnishing.
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Ive hadn't ridden with a whip in years since I had an ex racer that was scared of them. I have broken and on schooled quite a few now and haven't needed one yet.
I don't race ride (altho have ridden racehorses) so I can't comment on steeplechasing.
 
I have never seen in any book, training demo, or lesson the advocacy of hitting your horse on the rump as an aid.
In training your horse its taught to respond to your voice, body weight, leg and rein aids, each layer is added in progression so that the horse finds it easy to link the advance in the training. Sometimes a whip placed on the shoulder blocks a movement we want to stop, a schooling whip reinforces a leg aid which is always given first. Schooling whips are far easier to control than spurs with flapping legs.
Most horses a have a 'good' side like us being left or right handed, in training we encourage and reward good behaviour, so when they buck on their stiff rein and they throw a buck you send them forward and perhaps a growl or sometimes its just better to ignore it and reward good things.
Unless the horse has learned to buck and ditch the rider in an effort to get ride of the problem, bucking is usually a sign of something else going on, in a mare they may be coming into season, or pain, our old TB would buck if the rider did not have soft hands, in this case your friend has wacked it and expected it to do what? So ask your friend to find why she thinks hitting the horse on the rump would make any sense to the horse, garbage in equals garbage out.
 
Same here, really, I don't often carry one and when I do I rarely use it. I'm more likely to use it they're not paying attention or being naughty (like trying snack whilst hacking) rather than to make them go forward, just carrying one is enough to make some horses more forward.
 
tankgirl1 said:
Thanks Mike! I love my instructor he is ace, and just that one lesson made such a huge difference! I was nudging him on every stride before (novice alert), now only have to use a gentle squeeze and he ups the pace! :)

More lessons in the pipeline as soon as pennies allow ;)
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tHIS IS what it is all about . Why we do this ,spend every last penny on horses. We progress. Tank girl,dont laugh . today I had such a memorable ride/schooling session on Bob the nota cob. I have tried for years to stop him getting his tongue over the bit. Any attempts at schooling were met with resistance. But friends steered me onto the right path.The flash noseband was thrown away . And I let him have his freedom . suddenly I have a totaly different horse. How long has poor old Bob being trying to tell me this. I am bad but maybe my trip down the tesco fruit and veg isle will alter bobs opinion.
 
Mike007 said:
tHIS IS what it is all about . Why we do this ,spend every last penny on horses. We progress. Tank girl,dont laugh . today I had such a memorable ride/schooling session on Bob the nota cob. I have tried for years to stop him getting his tongue over the bit. Any attempts at schooling were met with resistance. But friends steered me onto the right path.The flash noseband was thrown away . And I let him have his freedom . suddenly I have a totaly different horse. How long has poor old Bob being trying to tell me this. I am bad but maybe my trip down the tesco fruit and veg isle will alter bobs opinion.
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Funny you should say that! Boyo became much lighter on the forehand once we ditched the flash and martingale! We still have lots of work to do, but strapping him down will get us nowhere fast! In my novice opinion of course!!
 
Well dont knock it, The lady that told me how a flash can stop a horse from flexing his neck is rather well known locally. She has also it seems taken it upon her self (bless her ) to sort my problems out . Thank god,!ive tried for three years.It is a brave step to ditch these things in the face of public opinion. The number of times I was told to do bobs flash up tighter . Poor munchkin .
 
Mike007 said:
Well dont knock it, The lady that told me how a flash can stop a horse from flexing his neck is rather well known locally. She has also it seems taken it upon her self (bless her ) to sort my problems out . Thank god,!ive tried for three years.It is a brave step to ditch these things in the face of public opinion. The number of times I was told to do bobs flash up tighter . Poor munchkin .
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My childhood/teenage memories of sticking on crazy arab mares, backing loopy chestnut mares... guess what.... they all were in snaffles with no noseband. Martingale? Whats that? I may be a novice but firmly agree less is more!
 
tankgirl1 said:
Funny you should say that! Boyo became much lighter on the forehand once we ditched the flash and martingale! We still have lots of work to do, but strapping him down will get us nowhere fast! In my novice opinion of course!!
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I used to take the gadgets off the kids at PC and the ponies would go a lot better. I really like the look of a grackle for some reason and like the Micklem bridles but wont tie any of my horses mouths shut. What a horrible thing to do to an animal.
 
maccachic said:
I think if you need to beat your horse with a stick you are doing something wrong with your training.

A tap is fine to reinforce something if you need to beat you need to take a look at yourself.
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Not beating him, just a smart smack. It was more horrid to watch her flap flap flap boot boot boot. I felt sorry for him although he had no interest in going forward at all and would just stop completely given the chance. IMO he needs to get out of school and go hunting - that will soon give him some motivation


And for those that asked it was a short crop. I will politely suggest she can borrow my schooling whip next time....
 
If I smacked my cob on the bum he would launch me in to next week I only smack him just behind the leg and even then sit back can sometimes put in a massive buck still in protest. I also was told if he bucks smack him a again till he stops spent a whole lesson on smack buck smack hes as stubborn as me no one was gonna win that fight. So we agreed to disagree and both gave up.
 
For those who were asking about using a whip / crop on the shoulder, where a horse pushes its shoulder out instead of turning, for instance towards a jump, a tap down the shoulder can be useful in 'pushing the stuffing back in'. Losing the shoulder is pretty common, especially on the horse's stiffer side. Hope that made sense?
 
maccachic said:
I think if you need to beat your horse with a stick you are doing something wrong with your training.

A tap is fine to reinforce something if you need to beat you need to take a look at yourself.
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Yep ^^ :)
Perfectly reasonable in my mind to buck if your bum is whacked..I would too!
having a schooling /whip crop is supposed to draw attention to your leg aids therefore tap behind the leg. I will sometimes tap, and by tsp I mean tap, the shoulder in an ' oi you, pay attention' way, just as I would tap ( poke) OH if he's ignoring me lol.
 
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