Blackwijet
Well-Known Member
Not if you can make a living out of it....If you earn enough to have the lifestyle you want by selling something cheaper than other people, then how is that stupid?!
^^
what spottedcat said as well !
So how much would you pay for a jpeg from a pro 'tog?
- Thread starter OneInAMillion
- Start date
^^
what spottedcat said as well !
Admirable
Well-Known Member
I never said that was stupid, I said selling Hi Res images for £5 was stupid.
I find that strange, why would anyone buy a print for say £10 when they can have a high res image 15MB-20MB image for £5?
Are you a full time photographer or do you have another job?
fleabittengrey
Well-Known Member
I won an evening championship at a show recently and there is a stunning photo, that I really want, but I'm not prepared to pay £14 for a jpg sent by email.... and only having a tiny thumbnail to choose from so I can't tell if horse or I are pulling hideous faces etc ....(Prints are even more, plus I have digital photo frames and no scanner so really wanted the jpg - but not at that price!)
Last edited:
George Michie
Well-Known Member
Blackwijet
Well-Known Member
No I'm not a full time photographer - what has that got to do with it? I charge what I believe are reasonable prices, I am registered as Self Employed and declare any earnings from photography, have liability insurance etc etc etc so please don't start going down that route!
and yes it is strange that someone would pay more for a print than a full res image but if that's what the customer wants then thats what the customer gets. Maybe people don't understand what a full res image is or want to print out an image themselves or haven't got the printer to go to A3/canvase etc
Last edited:
shelbug
Active Member
I don't get why it is stupid to sell a low res jpeg for £3? If someone is willing to buy say 3 of them thats £9, or 3 at £5 is £15, and as a photographer you don't have the set up costs at an event, you don't need someone else there manning the machinery/ printing photos, don't have the costs of ink/ paper/ etc.... Its a simple e-mail sending over some images, that takes what? a few minutes. Equine photography is something my Dad is seriously considering getting back into, we used to do it a lot (never to sell, I did it for my A level, my Dad is a very talented photographer but used to do it more so we all spent time as a family!) but he has now decided he wants to get back into it seriously and we are looking into it and what are considered reasonable costs, so this is all very useful stuff to know for me! x
Admirable
Well-Known Member
Who said it was stupid?
shelbug
Active Member
Oh I'm sorry, you actually said it was stupid to sell a 'high res' jpeg for £5, but you still haven't actually explained why? If it is because the buyer can then e-mail/ print off as many copies as they like so what? Its not costing the photographer anything in printing costs, the buyer will absorb all that cost as well, and they still need permission to use the image for publication, so the photographer still gets the credit for the image. I don't see the issue if the photographer is happy to sell at this price. We are all having to make changes to the products/ services we offer - generally upping the quality and keeping the price the same or putting a bloody good offer on it in order to get any type of sales in the current financial market. If you can tell me why it is stupid to sell a high res jpeg for £5 then fine, however I found your comment rather rude.
Admirable
Well-Known Member
Because I doubt if it's possible to make a living as a full time photographer charging these prices. I've no interest in your other personal details and I'm not 'going down' any other route. I'm merely trying to convey the photographers side of the discussion.
It wasn't my intention to be rude.
Firstly, I would rather just sell digital images as it's less hassle and more profit and you have explained the reasons why.
As for selling hi res digital images for £5, by hi res I'm referring to 15MB upwards, what would happen to all the higher value sales..........the new horsebox owner that orders 10ft x 8ft vinyl wraps of their mare and foal to display on the sides .......canvas prints at £100 - £300 and the supply of images to magazines, advertisers, websites, sponsors etc. The extra income from these sources would diminish rapidly if not cease altogether.
I agree with Blackwijet that I don't think folk realise what a hi res digital image is.
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
I have bought a few 'Facebook' images recently for £2.75 and £3 with the tog's logo on (they were £5 without). Had they not been so cheap, I would not have bought any at all and I certainly wouldn't have bought any prints. I think it's an excellent idea, gets the tog a few quid in at minimal cost!
What annoys me most about them, though, is that despite the fact that they are sold with permission to post on the internet (the ones I bought were sold as 'ideal for posting on social networking sites'), it appears that you still can't post them on here
What annoys me most about them, though, is that despite the fact that they are sold with permission to post on the internet (the ones I bought were sold as 'ideal for posting on social networking sites'), it appears that you still can't post them on here
Toffee_monster
Well-Known Member
Thats really nice to hear - For those who dont know, I sell :
* Low res JPEGS sized for FB at £3 with my website at the bottom but permission to use.
* low res jepgs - as above with no web address for £5
* Medium res jpeg - £15
* HIgh res - £25
Works well for me and i always do a lot of £3 and £5 ones
Last edited:
dixie
Well-Known Member
I recently went to a show & bought a very nice photo for £10 or maybe £15, can't quite remember. There were several other photos I liked but not enough to have a nice print but the jpeg price was £18 each, so I didn't buy any. If they were £3 each I would probably have bought 4 along with the nice quality print photo.
I couldn't understand why they were more than the printed photo & he said it was because he couldn't sell them on again, which was pretty unlikely to happen as I wasn't buying them and they weren't good enough for anything else.
I couldn't understand why they were more than the printed photo & he said it was because he couldn't sell them on again, which was pretty unlikely to happen as I wasn't buying them and they weren't good enough for anything else.
equischool
Well-Known Member
It is a fine line selling anything at an acceptable price and staying in business or trying to sell cheaply and going out of business. People always used to say make sure you take plenty of pictures of me, my horse, my son, my daughter just to be able to pass the links around to show friends and families of little Jimmy performing at a show and had no real intention of buying a print or digital copy however good it is, but that is just human nature.
i feel very sorry for the official photographer that goes down the correct route of paying to be on site, or has an arrangement where a percentage of sales are paid back to the host venue only to find 3 or 4 un-official photographers have turned up and start handing out their business cards. I have seen many posts on here saying that this happens and event photography has to be the only profession I know where this is permitted.
Would a shop owner let someone with some goods to sell walk into their shop pull up a table and start selling, of course not but this is what happens time after time and for me photographers that do this are the lowest of the low. Of course they can sell cheaper, couldn't we all do that in any profession?
If you want to sell prints find your own event and contact the event organisor for permission to do so, otherwise just use your camera for hobby and not trying to make money from it in such an underhand way.
Also to the person that said that the photographer shouldn't charge hardly anything for a digital copy as they have taken the picture anyway is frankly rubbish.
If you take your car in for a service and they change the oil they charge you for it..even though the person who had their oil changed before you paid enough for a whole drum of the stuff and every other car onwards would be complete profit does not mean that they then give it away to everyone else.
At the end of the day if the photos are too pricey you won't buy them as simple as that, the same way as if you shopping is too pricey in one supermarket you shop somewhere else....there is no real point complaining about it, because at the end of the day people charge whatever they need to charge to make it worth their while standing out in all sorts of weather all day long.
i feel very sorry for the official photographer that goes down the correct route of paying to be on site, or has an arrangement where a percentage of sales are paid back to the host venue only to find 3 or 4 un-official photographers have turned up and start handing out their business cards. I have seen many posts on here saying that this happens and event photography has to be the only profession I know where this is permitted.
Would a shop owner let someone with some goods to sell walk into their shop pull up a table and start selling, of course not but this is what happens time after time and for me photographers that do this are the lowest of the low. Of course they can sell cheaper, couldn't we all do that in any profession?
If you want to sell prints find your own event and contact the event organisor for permission to do so, otherwise just use your camera for hobby and not trying to make money from it in such an underhand way.
Also to the person that said that the photographer shouldn't charge hardly anything for a digital copy as they have taken the picture anyway is frankly rubbish.
If you take your car in for a service and they change the oil they charge you for it..even though the person who had their oil changed before you paid enough for a whole drum of the stuff and every other car onwards would be complete profit does not mean that they then give it away to everyone else.
At the end of the day if the photos are too pricey you won't buy them as simple as that, the same way as if you shopping is too pricey in one supermarket you shop somewhere else....there is no real point complaining about it, because at the end of the day people charge whatever they need to charge to make it worth their while standing out in all sorts of weather all day long.
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
Exactly, who is he going to sell them to other than you?
Last edited:
TGM
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you are a modern, forward-thinking photographer - I hazard a guess that you will probably make more money in the long term than some of the more stick-in-the-mud types!
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
But do you not think selling something is better than selling nothing? Or do pros make enough money from what they do sell not to care? Genuine question.
TGM
Well-Known Member
I can't agree entirely with that, I'm afraid. There is a point in people discussing how much they are willing to pay for .jpgs, particularly on a forum like this. It does give professional photographers an idea of how their target market are thinking and what might persuade them to buy. Fair enough, if some photographers are making an excellent living using their current pricing strategy then I can understand why they will stick with that. However, if some photographers are feeling the pinch of the recession, the market research garnered here may actually help improve their business.
equischool
Well-Known Member
TGM..I to agree with your post in part, if it is useful feedback I am sure the photographers will take it on board as welcomed information, but a lot of the thread seems to imply that the photographers are being greedy (some very well maybe!) and state that such and such gives his jpgs away for 10p each (made up figure
) the reason is probably for those I stated...sneaking around the venue when they shouldn't commercially be there is something I feel very strongly about...no one says that they shouldn't be there with a camera taking pictures but selling underhand in the way that they do is something I personally find the lowest of the low.
Many that ride I expect work in some way and earn a wage, some more than others, professional photographers need to be looked on in the same way too..they don't get paid to attend an event, in fact often the opposite. They don;t get expenses to get to the event, they pay that themselves. They dont in most instances get free food or drink at the venues, they pay for that themselves. The equipment isnt given to them and often costs £1,000's..of course it is their business choice to go to all of this expense but please do not be surprised if their prices are a little higher than someone who has a week day job and just turns up un-invited and just starts shooting and handing out his business cards...that is normally the reason why they are cheaper!
) the reason is probably for those I stated...sneaking around the venue when they shouldn't commercially be there is something I feel very strongly about...no one says that they shouldn't be there with a camera taking pictures but selling underhand in the way that they do is something I personally find the lowest of the low.Many that ride I expect work in some way and earn a wage, some more than others, professional photographers need to be looked on in the same way too..they don't get paid to attend an event, in fact often the opposite. They don;t get expenses to get to the event, they pay that themselves. They dont in most instances get free food or drink at the venues, they pay for that themselves. The equipment isnt given to them and often costs £1,000's..of course it is their business choice to go to all of this expense but please do not be surprised if their prices are a little higher than someone who has a week day job and just turns up un-invited and just starts shooting and handing out his business cards...that is normally the reason why they are cheaper!
titch
Well-Known Member
I think £3 for a low res image is the most I would pay, a tog does that near us and I usually spend more than I would buying a print, and they don't have the extra costs of printing the photos.
I do think togs are missing out on a trick if they don't offer it, earlier this year at a BE event, I bought copies of most of the pictures as they were fab, however, at the 2nd BE event at the same place, they took photos of the exact same fences! I asked if they would provide low res copies, but I've been told I must purchase the print, I don't want another at the same fence! Therefore tog is missing out on custom that would've been no extra cost for them.
Ultimately I vote with my cash, those who offer what I want, I will always spend money with, even if the pictures aren't perfect. Those who don't offer what I want, I won't spend a penny, no matter how nice the pic is. Maybe that's why so many togs complain about not making money...
I do think togs are missing out on a trick if they don't offer it, earlier this year at a BE event, I bought copies of most of the pictures as they were fab, however, at the 2nd BE event at the same place, they took photos of the exact same fences! I asked if they would provide low res copies, but I've been told I must purchase the print, I don't want another at the same fence! Therefore tog is missing out on custom that would've been no extra cost for them.
Ultimately I vote with my cash, those who offer what I want, I will always spend money with, even if the pictures aren't perfect. Those who don't offer what I want, I won't spend a penny, no matter how nice the pic is. Maybe that's why so many togs complain about not making money...
shelbug
Active Member
I hope that wasn't aimed at me! I would probably have been fired from my jobs many times over if I didn't know the difference
shelbug
Active Member
Although I would also like to defend the photographers as well, I can remember competing at Tweseldown back in 2004 and paying £12 for a print back then, so the price has not leapt up as much as other products
OneInAMillion
Well-Known Member
George Michie
Well-Known Member
I think what Admirable's getting at is that if you were a full time photographer trying to support a house and family you would probably want to charge more than £5 for a high res file. Looking at your potential customers here most are saying they'd pay between £3 and £5 for a low res so from a business perspective you have a product which has a higher value than you're selling it for.
I'm not going to say you're right or wrong, it's entirely your prerogative to run your business the way you want to.
I've actually started offering a digital file of the same res as a print at the same price. Say someone wants an A4 print, they could get the file optimised for A4 printing for the same price. I also give them a discount code to get rid of the postage. It's a little bit more work for me but ultimately it's more profitable so we both win.
It isn't stupid to give the customers what they want but from a business perspective it may be stupid to give them something which is unsustainable in the long term. i.e. why would you only charge £5 for something which is a lot more than the customer is expecting when you could charge £10, £15, £20, whatever?
I think the market is just beginning to change in potentially a huge way and, controversially, I'm not entirely sure that there is a long term future for full time professionals, at equestrian events anyway. Whether or not that's a good thing for competitors in the long run is debatable. If you can get high quality cheap/free images on a regular basis then why would you bother to buy the "official" ones, especially when there's a post on this page complaining about the services of a professional photographer. There's a wake up call if ever I saw it.
Digital is both a blessing and a curse. It has opened up the market to hundreds of photographers and made new products available to competitors at reasonable cost. In turn it has generated huge competition which means that more people are chasing a slice of the same pie. Add in competitors families who have access to high quality equipment and it means that "professionals" really need to
a) be producing the quality of images required every time and
b) producing the goods and/services the customers want from those images at a price which is fair to both sides.
That however is a difficult equation to balance. Competitors want the images but because of the choice available don't necessarily place a value on them. Most photographers are trying to adapt to the changes and still make a living. I'm not going to bother going into the rising cost of living because that applies to competitors and photographers, both have their own unique sets of costs. I've got both as my wife competes as well
I'll not deny it can be a bit depressing when you see something like the screenprint below from faceboak with loads of "Great pics" comments but no sales, and it's this sort of thing which could end up with you not having "official" photographers at events in the future.
I'm not saying there won't be any but there may not be the guys and gals standing for hours on end catching all of you in all conditions. Anyone can get a few high class shots of a couple of competitors when the sun's out and it doesn't matter. It's when it's freezing cold and the amateurs have gone home and you're about to win your 1st 2* that you want to see us
and on that note
Guess what, there wasn't a hobby photographer in sight 
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
I haven't ever been given a business card at an event or seen an unofficial tog doing this so either I am very unobservant or it's not as prevalent as pros think...
TGM
Well-Known Member
a lot of the thread seems to imply that the photographers are being greedy (some very well maybe!) and state that such and such gives his jpgs away for 10p each (made up figure
I don't think people are necessarily saying that photographers are greedy - more that they are being short-sighted in their business strategy. Perhaps it is better to sell a large quantity of products at a low price (ie offer low-priced low-res .jpgs), than a small quantity of products at a higher price (ie prints/hi-res .jpgs). I have more than enough photos on my walls, and don't want to use photos to sell a horse/emblazon my lorry etc., but it is nice to have something to remember an event by, or for my daughter to put on Facebook etc. However, I don't want it that much that I am ready to pay a relatively high price for it. I would say that when I go to an event and the photographer is offering low price low-res .jpgs then I will nearly always buy at least one. However, when photographers only offer prints and/or hi-res/high priced .jpgs then it is extremely rare for me to buy one.
And I ought to add that there are quite a few 'official' photographers round here who offer low-priced .jpgs, so it is not just 'unofficial' ones trying their luck with cheap images.
George Michie
Well-Known Member
Personally I believe the answer to that is "provided that you're making a reasonable profit". There's no point in being in business if you're making a loss. The key word is of course reasonable and there will probably never be agreement between photographers and competitors about what constitutes reasonable.
Blackwijet
Well-Known Member
I see what you mean but as I said I hardly sell any images at full res for £5 so I can't see that increasing that price to say £15 or £20 per image is going to help me or any other tog just because its their full time job - surely its better to sell 10 @£5 each than one at £15?. Prints vary between £8-£40 which seems to be fairly standard give or take a few ££s. I just try to provide something at a reasonable price to the customer that the customer will buy but also makes me some profit - although most of the profit is spent on lenses and cameras
and I know what you mean about the fair weather togs - some of the earnings are spent on waterproofs for me and the cameras! oh and thermal underwear for conditions like these! I still haven't quite sussed gloves that keep my fingers warm whilst still allowing full control of the camera
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
True, no one in their right mind goes into business to make a loss. But I think as TGM and I have demonstrated, there is more than one way to make that profit - lots of places sell lots of things with a small margin but make enough because lots of small profits make a decent one!
Santa_Claus
Well-Known Member
fab pictures guys
I'm only an enthusiastic amateur but do brave the conditions see
One local photographer has extortionate prices and I struggle to see how they make any money but then their profit margins on what they do sell must be huge!
And S_C I actually think James Pyne is relatively reasonable considering you can buy all your pics hi res from the day on CD for £60 ish. Most events he will prob get two XC fences plus SJ he normally take 15+ of me which are normally all good! granted you have to pay £60 but that is very good value to me even if only 5/6 were properly 'good'
I'm only an enthusiastic amateur but do brave the conditions see
One local photographer has extortionate prices and I struggle to see how they make any money but then their profit margins on what they do sell must be huge!
And S_C I actually think James Pyne is relatively reasonable considering you can buy all your pics hi res from the day on CD for £60 ish. Most events he will prob get two XC fences plus SJ he normally take 15+ of me which are normally all good! granted you have to pay £60 but that is very good value to me even if only 5/6 were properly 'good'
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
It's not good value when if you want to use them in an advert they charge an extra £12 PER photo, and £8.50 for a low res jpg is beyond a joke!