So joint supplements don't work (this week's H & H)

[Orangehorse]

Veterinary article in this week's H & H showed a study that gave randomised horses joint supplements - and didn't appear to work, keeping them exercised showed the same result.

Oh dear, this is a shame from all points of view - horses, owners, supplement manufacturers and magazines for the advertising revenue.

 

[Dry Rot]

Veterinary article in this week's H & H showed a study that gave randomised horses joint supplements - and didn't appear to work, keeping them exercised showed the same result.

Oh dear, this is a shame from all points of view - horses, owners, supplement manufacturers and magazines for the advertising revenue.

Shouldn't there be an exclamation mark at the end of your final sentence??

(My brain doesn't start to work properly until after midday).

 

[Buddy'sMum]

Now, roll on the study into calmers..!

 

[amandap]

Now, roll on the study into calmers..!

 

[applecart14]

Veterinary article in this week's H & H showed a study that gave randomised horses joint supplements - and didn't appear to work, keeping them exercised showed the same result.

Oh dear, this is a shame from all points of view - horses, owners, supplement manufacturers and magazines for the advertising revenue.

Your'e caught behind a rock and a hard place when it comes to this kind of thing. It's like anything you give your horse reguarly, its worrying stopping giving it. I am loathe to give up the joint supplement I give my horse in case he goes downhill drastically. I asked the vet once what he thought I should cut back on. Joint supplement or priobiotic. He said joint supplement. Maybe he really knew deep down that they do naff all anyway.

 

[lyndsayberesford]

i disagree, having recently started mine on Superfix Sportmax, big difference in the way he goes and moves and even his mentality, could be coincidence maybe but someone who rides the horse for me who didnt know he was on anything said " whatever you are doing with him do more of the same" due to the difference in how he rode within the first two weeks of being on the sportmax

 

[Dry Rot]

Your'e caught behind a rock and a hard place when it comes to this kind of thing. It's like anything you give your horse reguarly, its worrying stopping giving it. I am loathe to give up the joint supplement I give my horse in case he goes downhill drastically. I asked the vet once what he thought I should cut back on. Joint supplement or priobiotic. He said joint supplement. Maybe he really knew deep down that they do naff all anyway.

Well, I am sure his advice had absolutely nothing to do with profit margins….!

If a horse needed the extras, wouldn't it simply eat a bit more and excrete the extras it didn't need?

Sorry, I was at vet college long enough to learn to be cynical.

 

[Pigeon]

Can't say it's made any difference for any of mine! I have a horse that was on one and we stopped when he retired, and I would say he's sounder now (though that could just be because he's not ridden)

But I still give Pip one, out of superstition/fear more than anything.

I'm certain calmers make no difference either

 

[heebiejeebies]

I look after a 30 year old mare who is very very stiff even though she lives out year round, rugged up and cosy when it's cold. I suggested her owner put her on a joint supplement and what a difference it made - within a week she was trotting and cantering with the others in the field - had never seen more than a slow walk from her. She is so much happier and brighter.

It's like everything else - some people say it works, some will say it doesn't. Don't take anything as gospel and go with your own experiences and proof, not what some journalist has written in a magazine!

 

[Afrikaner]

Veterinary article in this week's H & H showed a study that gave randomised horses joint supplements - and didn't appear to work, keeping them exercised showed the same result.

Oh dear, this is a shame from all points of view - horses, owners, supplement manufacturers and magazines for the advertising revenue.

And this study shows otherwise.... Good old scientists!

Introduction
Despite the range of oral joint supplements available, there has been very limited research into their efficacy. Aim: To determine effect of an oral joint supplement on orthopaedic, physiotherapy and handler evaluation in horses.

Methods
24 mature horses were included in the study. Horses were excluded if they were in poor body condition, had health problems or greater than 2/5 lameness.* Supplement Sa (FlexAbilityTM, Science Supplements:

containing chondroitin sulphate 1.62g/100kg, glucosamine 1.9g/100kg, vitamin C 0.8g/100kg, methyl sulphonyl methane* 2.56g/100kg, DHA 0.66g/100kg), EPA 0.34g/100kg or placebo P (carrier/flavours only) were given to horses in their feed for 21 days each in a triple-blind crossover design; all horses received supplement and placebo in random order.* Horses were evaluated at day 0 (baseline), 21 (after first treatment) and 42 (after second treatment). Assessments included: Clinical orthopaedic evaluation for straight line and lunging circle (walk and trot), and during ridden exercise (walk, trot and canter);* Handler field evaluation, during groundwork and while ridden, grading specific criteria; Grading of range of motion (ROM) and muscle tone based on standardised physiotherapy criteria. All evaluators were blinded to treatment. Significance indicates P <0.05.

Results
S was associated with significantly lower lameness grade in a straight line and circle than either P or baseline. Both S and P were associated with significantly improved ROM and muscle tone over baseline.* Handler scores for ridden and groundwork were significantly higher with S compared to P or baseline.* After S, horses were graded significantly higher for field ‘ease-of-movement’ compared with P or baseline.*

Conclusions
Oral administration of this supplement was associated with less lameness, improved ridden/groundwork scores and improved ‘ease-of-movement’ in the field.* Improvement in physiotherapy assessment with both treatments over time suggests effects of ongoing training on ROM and muscle tone.

 

[Orangehorse]

I suppose the research was only done with one supplement!

 

[sarahann1]

Are there any references listed for these studies?

 

[Buddy'sMum]

And this study shows otherwise.... Good old scientists!

Introduction
Despite the range of oral joint supplements available, there has been very limited research into their efficacy. Aim: To determine effect of an oral joint supplement on orthopaedic, physiotherapy and handler evaluation in horses.

Methods
24 mature horses were included in the study. Horses were excluded if they were in poor body condition, had health problems or greater than 2/5 lameness.* Supplement Sa (FlexAbilityTM, Science Supplements:

containing chondroitin sulphate 1.62g/100kg, glucosamine 1.9g/100kg, vitamin C 0.8g/100kg, methyl sulphonyl methane* 2.56g/100kg, DHA 0.66g/100kg), EPA 0.34g/100kg or placebo P (carrier/flavours only) were given to horses in their feed for 21 days each in a triple-blind crossover design; all horses received supplement and placebo in random order.* Horses were evaluated at day 0 (baseline), 21 (after first treatment) and 42 (after second treatment). Assessments included: Clinical orthopaedic evaluation for straight line and lunging circle (walk and trot), and during ridden exercise (walk, trot and canter);* Handler field evaluation, during groundwork and while ridden, grading specific criteria; Grading of range of motion (ROM) and muscle tone based on standardised physiotherapy criteria. All evaluators were blinded to treatment. Significance indicates P <0.05.

Results
S was associated with significantly lower lameness grade in a straight line and circle than either P or baseline. Both S and P were associated with significantly improved ROM and muscle tone over baseline.* Handler scores for ridden and groundwork were significantly higher with S compared to P or baseline.* After S, horses were graded significantly higher for field &#8216;ease-of-movement&#8217; compared with P or baseline.*

Conclusions
Oral administration of this supplement was associated with less lameness, improved ridden/groundwork scores and improved &#8216;ease-of-movement&#8217; in the field.* Improvement in physiotherapy assessment with both treatments over time suggests effects of ongoing training on ROM and muscle tone.

Interesting, although very small sample sizes and only subjective outcome variables assessed.

Presumably the data from this study will be published in a peer-reviewed journal?

 

[lea840]

Interesting... I've had mine and my friends horse on Glucosamine for 18 months, with little or no signs of an difference in their way of going. Both a little stiff behind and both only 7... although they are more on the side of 'Lazy horses'

Horse A, 7yr old Irish cob, slightly stiff behind has had filled back legs for 18 months, always sound and happy but nothing flashy to look at.

Horse B, 7yr old Friesian, very stiff behind to the point of looking lame, in fact at one point 3yrs ago was written off by a vet saying she was lame all round.

After a lot of research we decided to stop wasting our hard earned cash on an equine joint supplement and put them both on turmeric, freshly ground pepper and oil...

One week in to the turmeric both horses were much much sharper, both had significantly improved in their way of going and there was a reduction in the filling on the cob's legs.

2 weeks in, Friesian was showing a huge improvement when coming into the school. The cobs filling of the legs appeared to be some kind of an on going internal infection, which had now burst out through the skin in several points, looking like a bad case of mud fever. (Vet came out and gave anti-biotics, bute and Flamazine)

3 weeks in, Cob's legs 90% of the filling gone and is now parading round like a flashy stallion, along with the Friesian. Also the Friesian has always struggles getting left canter lead, whether ridden or on the lunge, not any more, left canter lead is correct every time now.

The turmeric seems to have worked wonders on them both, they are now very responsive to ride but without fizziness. They are both extremely happy in themselves. Their way of going has improved so much, they are both now completely over tracking and floaty.

I can honestly say, hand on heart, that I have never seem a result like it... they are going into week 4 now of the turmeric and they are just getting better and better.


I have started taking it myself to see if there was any change in me, having suffered a nasty break to the leg 6 years ago and a constant battle with pain and painkillers, I, for the first time in 6 years have been pain free, no more swollen leg by tea time and it's given me a huge boost of energy to the point that I'm mucking 6 horses, hay nets, waters turning in and out in to the play pen in less than 1 1/2 hours

 

[mynutmeg]

They certainly make a huge difference in my collie dog, she has severe hip dysplasia and arthritis and is on metacam (anti-inflammatory) and codeine as well as her joint supplement. If she misses 2/3 days of joint supplement she is as bad as if she missed her metacam or codiene. I have found over the last month or two that I was having to regularly give her extra codiene as she was sore so upped her joint supplement and have been able to reduce how often I've had to give extra codiene

 

[RachelFerd]

Most the supplements that "work" do so because they contain things that would actually test under the rules of racing... That is why the centre for racehorse studies is doing extensive testing into joint supplements at the moment.

I have not personally noticed any improvement in horses movement any time I have used a joint supplement, so I have written them off as a load of rubbish... but can't hurt too much if you want to pay out for them!

 

[flirtygerty]

My 20 yr old mare might beg to differ, last summer was going to be her last, as she really struggled with the hard ground (yes it was summer) gave the ok to the grandkids that she could have treats and as much fussing as she wanted, cue a TB coming back with poor feet, going on a BF diet, which all of mine got and my mare got a new lease of life, six months of being on linseed, she is now back in work and loving life, her arthritis doesn't seem to bother her now, but it was a very quick result, she's now back to no treats poor love

 

[Buddy'sMum]

My 20 yr old mare might beg to differ, last summer was going to be her last, as she really struggled with the hard ground (yes it was summer) gave the ok to the grandkids that she could have treats and as much fussing as she wanted, cue a TB coming back with poor feet, going on a BF diet, which all of mine got and my mare got a new lease of life, six months of being on linseed, she is now back in work and loving life, her arthritis doesn't seem to bother her now, but it was a very quick result, she's now back to no treats poor love

We're talking about the oral glucosamine and chondroitin, etc joint supplements

 

[noblesteed]

The way I understand as explained to me by my scientist husband it is that joint supplements do work for humans and dogs. But with horses it's to do with the way their digestive system works and nobody knows if what's in the supplements actually gets into their bodies rather than just being pooped out.
My vet advised against bothering with joint supps for my gelding's spavins - he said it 'may or may not' make a difference in the early stages but in my horse's case it's beyond repair. So I haven't bothered. He is on rosehip for his feet though and I understand that rosehip can be beneficial to joints too, so I continue to feed this.
I am going to try turmeric as I make a lot of curries so it won't be wasted if he doesn't like it!

 

[NU ABO]

My mildly arthritic 17yr boy might disagree. Very stiff in one shoulder and admittedly Cortaflex did absolutely nothing to help, so I switched him to Flexijoint by Equimins and he's like a different horse, my trainer keeps telling me he looks and moves like a 10yr performance horse, rather than a 17yr ex-riding school horse nearing the end of his competitive career.

Granted it could be the way I've managed him this year, but I'd sooner spend £26 a month and feel happy in the knowledge that he's no longer stiff and possibly uncomfortable, then try to save money and have him go back the way he was.

 

[ester]

is there a link to the article/reference to the study?

It has been muted for years that the molecules are too big to leave the digestive tract (and then they have to find their way into a joint...) and they aren't really recommended for humans any more anyway. I have used one in the past but wouldn't again.

 

[Christmas Crumpet]

I have been feeding my aged hunter Newmarket Joint Supplement since I got him in September and it has done b*gger all that I can see. I have had him on turmeric for a month and the change in him is massive. He is a different horse. And its far, far cheaper!!

 

[sarahann1]

This one is interesting:

"Introduction

Despite the range of oral joint supplements available, there has been very limited research into their efficacy.

Aims

To determine effect of an oral joint supplement on orthopaedic, physiotherapy and handler evaluation in horses.
Methods

Twenty-four mature horses were included in the study. Horses were excluded if they were in poor body condition, had health problems or greater than 2/5 lameness. Supplement Sa (containing chondroitin sulfate 1.62&#8201;g/100&#8201;kg&#8201;bwt, glucosamine 1.9&#8201;g/100&#8201;kg&#8201;bwt, vitamin C 0.8&#8201;g/100&#8201;kg&#8201;bwt, methyl sulphonyl methane 2.56&#8201;g/100&#8201;kg&#8201;bwt, DHA 0.66&#8201;g/100&#8201;kg&#8201;bwt), EPA 0.34&#8201;g/100&#8201;kg&#8201;bwt or placebo P (carrier/flavours only) were given to horses in their feed for 21 days each in a triple-blind crossover design; all horses received supplement and placebo in random order. Horses were evaluated at Days 0 (baseline), 21 (after first treatment) and 42 (after second treatment). Assessments included: clinical orthopaedic evaluation for straight line and lungeing circle (walk and trot), and during ridden exercise (walk, trot and canter); handler field evaluation, during groundwork and while ridden, grading-specific criteria; grading of range of motion (ROM) and muscle tone based on standardised physiotherapy criteria. All evaluators were blinded to treatment. Significance indicates P<0.05.

Results

S was associated with significantly lower lameness grade in a straight line and circle than either P or baseline. Both S and P were associated with significantly improved ROM and muscle tone over baseline. Handler scores for ridden and groundwork were significantly higher with S compared with P or baseline. After S, horses were graded significantly higher for field &#8216;ease-of-movement&#8217; compared with P or baseline.
Conclusions and practical significance

Oral administration of this supplement was associated with less lameness, improved ridden/groundwork scores and improved &#8216;ease-of-movement&#8217; in the field. Improvement in physiotherapy assessment with both treatments over time suggests effects of ongoing training on ROM and muscle tone.
Ethical animal research

This study involved informed consent of the persons responsible for horses used in the study.Sources of funding: World Horse Welfare. Competing interests: David Marlin and Rebecca Frost are employed by Science Supplements. Vicki Adams and Rachel Murray are involved with Science Supplements on a consultancy basis."

Murray, R., Adams, V., Walker, V., Tranquille, C., Copeman, S., Spear, J., Frost, R. and Marlin, D. (2013), To Determine the Effect of An Oral Joint Supplement on Orthopaedic, Physiotherapy and Handler Evaluation Scores in Horses. Equine Veterinary Journal, 45: 3. doi: 10.1111/evj.12145_7

 

[ester]

I think most of these studies are hampered by the relatively small number of the participants (and the fact that half of authors in the above are employed by the supplement company....:rolleyes3 and all assessment of improvements are pretty subjective and therefore difficult to measure.

I think if someone could scientifically prove that it gets where it is needed that would be better!

I was interested in a different supplement that was advertised a lot a couple of years ago which had a complex called UCII in it I think - which targetted the immune system, working on the basis that arthritis is an autoimmune response type thing iirc.

 

[lannerch]

I'm still yet to be convinced the joint supplements work, certainly in people the nhs stopped supporting glucosamine and chondriotin due to lack of any efficacy .

There is a new product out though for people that is making a big difference to people suffering from osteoarthritis, a gel, it's flying out of the shop even at £18 a tube!

It works by forming a protective layer over the damaged cartilage , sounds fanciful but according to the public it really seems to work.

Hopefully it is just the beginning of new products that work on the same lines. Products name is flexiseq if anyone wants to google.

I do feed my horse a joint supplement I feed msm, he is sound and I am frightened to stop it whether it makes a difference is a different matter.

 

[fatpiggy]

My vet told me that he wouldn't have been able to get out of bed in the morning without his daily dose of glucosamin. Derek Knottenbelt told me to use it for my horse who had chronic arthritis. If he told me to lie in the mud I would have. I later put my horse onto Global Herbs Bute-X and within a week she went to stumbling so much I couldn't even ride her in walk, to cantering on less than smooth fields while hacking. That's sufficient proof for me!

 

[lannerch]

What I did notice when for people the nhs stopped funding glucosamine and chondriotin on prescription , no one complained or bought it themselves it didn't seem to make a difference.

I personally am beginning to wonder if they are all hype , which we invisage works due to the fact of the glossy claims and advertisements by the manufacturers and the fact we all want them to .

 

[L&M]

The fact that glucosamine and chondriotin have been shown to have no benefit to humans, I very much doubt that they help horses either.

If looking for a joint supplement, I would be more tempted to go down the herbal route, but even then remain sceptical!

 

[PolarSkye]

Since moving to our new yard (in October), my boy has never looked or moved better . . . he is on a different brand of MSM, has different grazing, is being ridden differently, isn't being bullied in the field/has a calm field companion . . . I can't tell you which of these has worked, but something has . . . despite having the beginnings of arthritis in his hocks, he is incredibly loose and supple and free - particularly behind. Is it the MSM? Minerals in the grazing? Not having to run away from bullies in the field? The way he is being ridden? Regular spells on the horse walker? Being bathed in hot water under a solarium?

Honestly, who knows? But I'm not prepared to take the risk of taking him off the MSM .

P