So, Roll then Harrow; or, Harrow then Roll?

[MrsMozart]

What's your views folks?

Badly poached in areas. Mainly clay.

'Twill be a lovely local farmer doing the rolling, and me with a thermos of tea and some butties to hand doing the harrowing

 

[paddy555]

Harrow then roll. Ours came up beautifully.

 

[MrsMozart]

Thank you.

Now trying to figure out timings as the land is hard enough to take the 4x4 now, but in a few days time the rain will have done its thing and the ground will be ready for rolling, only the harrow won't arrive 'till Friday.

Gosh this land management is both a fine art, a black art, and a blinking juggling game! And yes, I know, I can't count

 

[milliepops]

We rolled first this time as some of it was really badly cut up, so it just squished down a bit first to give the grass a chance to establish again then OH ran the harrows over afterwards. That has made a huge difference and its greening up well (though he has all the kit so we'll probably roll it again with this rain)

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I have my fields done every year by a local farmer and he always harrows first, then rolls.

If you have the gear to do it then obviously bash on and do it yourself OP - I don't know what sort of acreage you've got to do - but it might work out more cost-effective to engage a local contractor or a farmer to do the job??

I keep telling my two pampered darlings - both hefty cobs who COULD darn well do the work! - to kindly bear in mind that their forebears of course would've had to hitch up and earn their keep by doing their own damn pasture management!

 

[Nari]

Ask your farmer if it makes any difference what order you do it in, he knows the land where you are.

 

[Clodagh]

OH (farmer) said get rid of the horses.
When asked for a more sensible solution he said don’t roll, just Harrow.
Rolling leads to compressed ground and hence buttercups and moss. If you keep rolling you will need to aereate.

 

[Ali27]

I’ve just harrowed mine for last few years but this year the field was awful so I harrowed in March and then my neighbour rolled it a week later. We are on clay.

 

[Micky]

We harrowed, then left a week, seeded, fertilised, harrowed and finally rolled..ours is very deep in places, but has come up a treat, almost bowling green without the green at the moment..we will top when then grass gets too long ( strip graze mine) as that helps thicken grass up, which we need due to peat soil/poaching now in winter..

 

[meleeka]

OH (farmer) said get rid of the horses.
When asked for a more sensible solution he said don’t roll, just Harrow.
Rolling leads to compressed ground and hence buttercups and moss. If you keep rolling you will need to aereate.

I don’t roll for that reason, just harrow and leave.

 

[paddy555]

OH (farmer) said get rid of the horses.
When asked for a more sensible solution he said don’t roll, just Harrow.
Rolling leads to compressed ground and hence buttercups and moss. If you keep rolling you will need to aereate.

interesting, haven't thought of that. We roll after harrowing but we use a very light roller, it is a very old granite roller designed to be pulled by a horse. We don't get compressed ground and I wonder if that is because we don't use one of the bigger heavier rollers used by contractors. Also it is only rolled once, once a year.

"get rid of horses" OH clearly needs more training

 

[tda]

You are right about the black art, it's so hard. We went from wet and muddy to rock hard within a couple of days. My farmer neighbour was out so he rolled our paddocks, half was a bit hard, the other half too soft ??
My OH has gone over it with our quad and small harrows, made a small difference, then yesterday we've overseeded and fertilized and it's due to rain today so hopefully we've got that part right

 

[MrsMozart]

Thank you all

Size wise the one that needs attention is about eleven acres-ish. There's some serious poaching by the shed from the horses, and some wickedly deep ruts just outside the field from where a tractor did some towing when the ground was supper soft. They need sorting for sure.

I'll ask the farmer what his plan would be. I'd like to do the harrowing as it'll be a good way of learning more about how the land lies and works.

Am ignoring all suggestions of getting rid of the horses ???

 

[Clodagh]

Am ignoring all suggestions of getting rid of the horses ???

TBH it was always my OH's solution to any problem.

 

[Nari]

Mine stopped using it as an answer when I was without one for nearly a year, a horse is now viewed as a necessary evil!

 

[Carrottom]

My farming friend, who has horses, says to harrow then rest and let the rain do the work. Only roll if you want to cut hay, otherwise it is good enough to put the horses back on.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Surely rolling compacts the earth at the same time as levelling it, while harrowing should lift and air the earth at the same time as levelling it.

So harrowing will be less effective if done after rolling.

Ergo: harrow first, roll after.

 

[milliepops]

Surely rolling compacts the earth at the same time as levelling it, while harrowing should lift and air the earth at the same time as levelling it.

So harrowing will be less effective if done after rolling.

Ergo: harrow first, roll after.

I'd say to an extent it depends on the state of your land. My main field this spring was in a complete poached mess in some areas, others were fairly tidy. Running the harrows over the poached bits would have been pretty pointless until they were flattened to a degree hence the quick roll when the dry weather first came along a while back and the clay turned from soup to putty . squished the roots back down again where they were trying to grow and then we harrowed when it got properly dry.

 

[paddy555]

Mine stopped using it as an answer when I was without one for nearly a year, a horse is now viewed as a necessary evil!

mine is the other way around. I only have to mention a horse and he is so disappointed if we don't have it. We have 9.
I hate for him to be disappointed.

 

[MrsMozart]

mine is the other way around. I only have to mention a horse and he is so disappointed if we don't have it. We have 9.
I hate for him to be disappointed.

This amused

Am starting to think about the land being compacted. Definitely don't want that.

Do need to get the big dippy bits flattened. Not sure how well the harrow will do that. Will contemplate

 

[EventingMum]

What type of harrow you have also makes a difference, a light chain harrow may well just bounce over rutted areas. We have a heavy grass harrow with hydraulic folding arms which does a great job leveling as it's used. We then roll and then slit which helps counteract the compacting. Obviously having a tractor for heavier/hydraulic machinery helps but cultivating a good relationship with a friendly farmer with grass maintenance equipment is the next best thing!

 

[Clodagh]

Perhaps roll the really rutted bits but avoid the better areas?

 

[MrsMozart]

Spoke with a nice harrow man today.

He said harrow then roll.

Harrow in two directions, so north-south then east-west.

He thinks a good few goes over will result in not needing someone to come and roll the badly poached areas.

Now if only the delivery people had delivered both parts of the harrow... But they did put up with me getting the delivery address wrong so I shall shut up and smile sweetly and await the mat's arrival tomorrow

I asked him about the advice to not put the horses back on a harrowed area for four weeks and he said not necessary unless using a paddock sweeper, then he got a bit technical and I got sidetracked...

 

[D66]

The stuff left on the floor of the hay store is full of seeds so you could sweep that up and drop it on the bare patches in the fields. In the past we have also scattered duff bales on the barer bits to get rid of the hay and beef up the grass.
Hope the harrow parts arrive promptly.

 

[Moody27]

What's your views folks?

Badly poached in areas. Mainly clay.

'Twill be a lovely local farmer doing the rolling, and me with a thermos of tea and some butties to hand doing the harrowing

Ours was harrowed then rolled , it’s coming through beautifully now .

 

[MrsMozart]

I like the hay store floor contents being reused, I always used to feel bad for just binning it.

The harrow mat arrived today! Excitement The delivrey guy carried it out (7'x5') and commented that it was heavy... I said "No fret, husband will bring it in". Oh how husband laughed. Then we dragged it in between us... So that's tomorrow's (and however many days afterwards!) job sorted.

Will report back as to whether the big ruts were sorted by the 3-way (aggressive, medium, light) harrow or if we still need a roller to come and beat the peaks down

 

[Nicnac]

I'm on clay too and harrow doesn't really work as earth is heavy when wet and then you sink and get stuck or it's bone dry and too late to do. I get two men in big tractors out with serious harrow and roller and let them both loose. I can then keep on top of it with my diddy tractor and harrow.

This year for once the weather Gods were with us and it was timed perfectly.

(I won't mention the furloughed OH who bought a load of paddock grass seed at great expense which he sprinkled by hand on bone dry clay and is wondering why it's not growing...... Land management course for him methinks as he's retiring in a few months and I'm handing over paddock maintenance to him )

 

[MyBoyChe]

Im getting quite excited at the prospect of re seeding my gateway. We are on heavy clay and this winter it was completely trashed, although it dried out quite well the grass was never going to recover by itself. We harrowed it with a quad and grass harrow and I have rolled it with a garden roller and raked by hand, it looks beautiful. The grass seed is in my porch just waiting for the right weather to scatter it. The total area is about the size of a singles tennis court so not massive, the harrowing definitely made the difference though, made it much easier to roll and rake by hand