So were the posters who backed Jamie Gray "Trolls" ?

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I have looked through the thread and can't find your answer specifically about KH15 and the conditions of the stall in the photograph. You say the beds were clean yet the video of this horse clearly shows otherwise. Please can you answer this as you say the beds were fresh?
 
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I have looked through the thread and can't find your answer specifically about KH15 and the conditions of the stall in the photograph. You say the beds were clean yet the video of this horse clearly shows otherwise. Please can you answer this as you say the beds were fresh?

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KH15 was taken into that pen - YES.

This evidence was given in court. And that animal was PTS uneccesarily.
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Yes I have just been back through the entire post and other than saying the barns were not in appauling conditions you have made no comment on the state of the barn that KH15 is in in the video. What are your thoughts on this?

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And while you are at it, this clearly is not a well maintained deep litter system

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This poor little chap is still alive, even if he had just gone down you can not say that the bed is fresh. It is not a well maintained deep litter bed even.

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And do you really believe that this horse who can not open it's eye, which is covered in discharge is not suffering in any way?

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And these horses decomposing in the fields - were these dug up or had they been left to rot? If they had been dug up from the ground, how come they have pure white, clean legs? Were they washed for the photos?

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This one looks pretty clean for an animal that has been dug up!

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Again lovely clean legs for a horse that has been dug up - or has it been left to fester and for how long?

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So the knacker man, farrier, all the vets, court reporter and RSPA inspectors were all lying and JG was telling the truth. Hmmmmm.
 
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I have looked through the thread and can't find your answer specifically about KH15 and the conditions of the stall in the photograph. You say the beds were clean yet the video of this horse clearly shows otherwise. Please can you answer this as you say the beds were fresh?

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KH15 was taken into that pen - YES.

This evidence was given in court. And that animal was PTS uneccesarily.
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So it was taken into a filthy dirty pen (which didn't exist apparently) and what veterinary investigations and treatment had it received for it's severe diarrhoea prior to the raid? The pictures clearly show a very ill horse and apparently heavily pregnant. A concientious owner would have the vet out well before it reached that stage. It also sounds from the ruling that this was the same horse with the infected eye. Hardly in prime condition for giving birth.
 
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I have looked through the thread and can't find your answer specifically about KH15 and the conditions of the stall in the photograph. You say the beds were clean yet the video of this horse clearly shows otherwise. Please can you answer this as you say the beds were fresh?

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KH15 was taken into that pen - YES.

This evidence was given in court. And that animal was PTS uneccesarily.
mad.gif


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So it was taken into a filthy dirty pen (which didn't exist apparently) and what veterinary investigations and treatment had it received for it's severe diarrhoea prior to the raid? The pictures clearly show a very ill horse and apparently heavily pregnant. A concientious owner would have the vet out well before it reached that stage. It also sounds from the ruling that this was the same horse with the infected eye. Hardly in prime condition for giving birth.

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I suppose you believe you have come up with something new like most of the posters do.

No one said that pen did not exist. If you had looked through the thread like you said, then you would have come accross posts concerning THAT pen.

Also, maybe you should contact Katie Robinson (VET) who HAD seen those animals.

Katie Robinson had also seen the fallen gray at Mr Grays request. Ms Robinson gave that animal a clean bill of health. That animals died on the morning of the raid.
 
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I have looked through the thread and can't find your answer specifically about KH15 and the conditions of the stall in the photograph. You say the beds were clean yet the video of this horse clearly shows otherwise. Please can you answer this as you say the beds were fresh?

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KH15 was taken into that pen - YES.

This evidence was given in court. And that animal was PTS uneccesarily.
mad.gif


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So it was taken into a filthy dirty pen (which didn't exist apparently) and what veterinary investigations and treatment had it received for it's severe diarrhoea prior to the raid? The pictures clearly show a very ill horse and apparently heavily pregnant. A concientious owner would have the vet out well before it reached that stage. It also sounds from the ruling that this was the same horse with the infected eye. Hardly in prime condition for giving birth.

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Patty lives in such a LALA Land that she is starting to believe her own cr@p
 
What are you talking about! You show pictures of fluffy straw and make out that was the reality at Spindles farm.

What fallen Grey? I showed pictures of coloured horses rotting in fields. I said nothing about a grey horse. You haven't commented on the horse with the bad eye and whether it was suffering, what treatment the horse in the filthy pen with diarrhoea had received, the state of the pen with the downed pony, or the condition of the rotting horses in the field. Kind of hard to explain away aren't they? Regardless of whether any horses were in reasonable condition, these pictures to me show a person who is not capable of maintaining a large herd of horses and for that reason an lifetime ban on the care of animals is perfectly justified.
 
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Spot the difference:

A Spindles Farm bed in Pattyland

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A Spindles farm bed in reality not quite so "lush, clean and dry!"

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HaHa Pattyland is bettter than LaLa land
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Happy Horse - thank you for posting those questions and pictures, that's exactly what I was trying to ask but you posted it 100 times better than I did. I have read this whole post and I can't remember Patty answering specifically about the bedding (although I'm not disputing she didn't, I just don't want to trawl through the whole posts again).

I can *just* about manage to see how some of the poor / neglected horses could be ones that he last had in and were poor when he bought them but there is absolutely no justifiable reason how he can let that barn get so bad and have horses living in those conditions. Not really the ideal condition to keep an already poor / sick horse!

So why was one barn lovely and clean with fresh bedding and the other full of urine and faeces?
 
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And these horses decomposing in the fields - were these dug up or had they been left to rot? If they had been dug up from the ground, how come they have pure white, clean legs? Were they washed for the photos?

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This one looks pretty clean for an animal that has been dug up!

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Again lovely clean legs for a horse that has been dug up - or has it been left to fester and for how long?

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So the knacker man, farrier, all the vets, court reporter and RSPA inspectors were all lying and JG was telling the truth. Hmmmmm.

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You can also see where the decomposition has seeped into the ground around the horses so how could the RSPCA have dug them up?
 
Yes, no disturbed ground around them at all. They must have dug them up, washed them and then moved them away from the area they were dug up from without the bodies falling apart. Very clever of them!
 
I have just manages to read this whole thread from start to finish *sighs with relief!!*

I have tried to look at this objectively and with an unbiased view and would like to comment as follows :

1) Patty, you have been asked time and time again throughout this post what made you decide to take such an interest in this case, what connection you have with JG or Spindles farm and for what purpose you are collating this information. By providing this, you may gain a small amount of credibility.

2) I have no doubt that there were horses at Spindles Farm that were not in poor condition. Sadly/luckily these horses are not the point of the court excercise. You can have 500 animals in good condition, but if you are found to be seriously neglecting the 501st animal, then that is your fault for letting that situation occur. I think the argument of whether or not the healthy horses were at Spindles farm is besides the point, it is the unhealthy, dead and dying ones that are rightly being focused upon.

3) To claim that every person involved in this apart from yourself (patty, that is) and the Grey family are lying in some attempt to pervert the course of justice is just a bit 'hollywood' dont you think? Perhaps if you feel that a vast miscarriage of justice has occured, you should present the ways in which you collated your evidence, and your subsequent findings into the form of a report and publish that report for all to view at their will, as well as forward this report to all media bodies for them to investigate this further.

Their means to unearth corruption and make the general public aware of this corruption are far greater than yours. If your evidence is as compelling as you say it is, then I am sure they would not hesitate in following this up - especially considering the high profile nature of this case.

4) Could you clarify for me if you feel that the decomposing carcasses shown in the pictures in the previous few pages of this post are the ones that you feel were dug up? If these were not, do you have evidence of the ones that were, and could you clarify the situation in which these horses have come to remain in this situation.

I am sure that there is more that I would like to ask, but feel that this is enough questioning for the moment!!
 
I have answered every question thats been asked. Try asking some new ones.

And I have provided genuine photos but have been accused of photoshopping them - basically being called a liar and have been called a fake.

Why the hell should I answer the same questions just so people can shout me down and try to accuse me of being a liar and a fake?

Sorry but I'm NO liar and dont appreciate being viewed as one.
 
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I have answered every question thats been asked. Try asking some new ones.

And I have provided genuine photos but have been accused of photoshopping them - basically being called a liar and have been called a fake.

Why the hell should I answer the same questions just so people can shout me down and try to accuse me of being a liar and a fake?

Sorry but I'm NO liar and dont appreciate being viewed as one.

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Maybe because you can't answer them! You have proved nothing yet when photographs are produced and questions asked you refuse to comment. No one can say that the horse with the bad eye or diarrhoea were not suffering, the dead, decaying animals clearly had not been dug up and the beds in the video are clearly filthy dirty and not fresh and fluffy as you would like to have people believe. You are making out everyone apart from you is a liar but you don't like it when the tables are turned. You have proved nothing and JG is still guilty. Why not quit while you are losing and if you are so convinced of his innocence focus your efforts on trying to convince the people who can do something about it. Good luck with that!
 
Paddywhack, maybe we ought to re-name you 'Pattywhack'.

(I promise I mean that is the nicest possible way, it's a play on words that just occured to me.)
 
Sorry Patty, perhaps you could direct me to the parts of this thread that show your answers to my particular questions.

I will happily apologise for my poor eyesight and reading skills when you point them out!
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Patty only answers the questions she wants to,she has been asked loads of questions that she still has not answered.
Reason being she has no proof she asks other people to prove themselves but she still has yet to prove her so called information.
 
Whilst i suspect that this is the case, I thought that I would give her the change to answer these fairly worded specific questions.

She says that she has answered them before, but can't find her posts - maybe I am being stupid?!

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No you are not being stupid. If she gets asked a question she can't explain away she has a strop and says she has already answered it. I read the whole post yesterday and there are plenty of unanswered questions. Don't hold your breath!
 
Oh no, dont worry - I have no intention of that.

I work on the basis that if you give someone enough rope, they will either do something useful with it..........or hang themselves!!

Now, being a sporting kind of person, i see it is only fair that I give Patty the chance to fill in the blanks that I have identified and highlighted, but I suspect that as these questions have been raised and ignored on a number of occasions throughout this post, that this trend will continue.

(please feel free Patty to prove me wrong, and as stated before, I will happily apologise for my failings if I missed where you have answered these before)

Still, god loves a tryer
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Right I have been through the thread and other threads trying to find where I have answered the questions but somehow they are not there. I did however answer the questions so I'm not sure what has happened. And I have not stated that all the dead animals were dug up.

There was a discussion in court about how long it would take for each animal to decompose. Although Mr Gray moved the fallen animals away from the live animals some were still exposed to the elements and a very wet period of time, etc...

Here is what I did find.



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http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4361011/page/0/fpart/17/vc/1


And you know for a fact that horses were kept in that barn - and that Mr Gray's hired man wasnt in the proccess of clearing it before he found that another of his animals had died, and so put it in there?

Funny how only such a barn was published, and the barns that I confused for the barn at the sancuary wasnt. Yes funny that!!



http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4361011/page/0/fpart/17/vc/1

They did indeed. Most of those photos were taken near a gate that joins the yard to the fields. If they hadnt been buried then they would have been clearly seen by vet Katie Robinson on the 21st Dec 07 when she was there in pen 3 (barn right next to gate) examining the animals to which she issued health certificates for. One animal at a time was taken in to pen 3 to be examined.

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Why did the Grays drag a horse by the neck behind a vehicle, which later died if they are not cruel people?

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And you heard this allegation where exactly?

You most certainly did not hear it in court. The prosecution put no such allegation to Mr Gray nor any member of his family.

Thats the media hype for you.

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"Neil Harris – Manager - National Trust, Hughenden Manor.
Horses appeared on NT land. Steps taken to establish the ownership. There on 18 December, had received a phone call from Helen Evans. There at 5.30pm and saw the behaviour of people trying to move the horse, saw Mr.Gray, with young female and young boy. Mr. Gray and young male tied rope to head and tail to drag horse to trailer. Saw young male kick horse. – C20"

"48. The vehicle could not be driven close to the animal. Attempts to get it up and moving failed and it was dragged by ropes tied to its tail and head to the trailer. It was pulled up the ramp into the trailer and tied up inside the trailer. It was kicked whilst being dragged by Jamie Gray Jnr."

So the evidence presented did not say the animal was dragged by a vehicle but to prevent suffering to an animal unable to stand surely a vet would be called instead of dragging it by the head and tail to a trailer or kicking it - or was this witness lying in court as well? The animal was witnessed being collected on December 18th and found in the trailer on January 4th, 17 days later - what was the excuse for not disposing of this one and why was a vet not called to examine it before moving it?

"Inspector Claire Ryder followed up reports about the treatment of the horse on 18th December when she visited Spindles Farm on 21st December 2007. She met Julie Gray and Jamie Gray. When she asked where the equine (C20) was she was told by Jamie that a knackerman from Aylesbury had shot it."

So a knackerman shot it, why did they not remove it there and then? When the Inspector asked where the horse was, why was she not told it was still in the trailer at that point?
 
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Right I have been through the thread and other threads trying to find where I have answered the questions but somehow they are not there. I did however answer the questions so I'm not sure what has happened.

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UNBELIEVABLE!!!! Now it seems some wicked HHO fairy is going through all these posts and mysteriously deleting things just to make you look bad.....christ Patty you must be getting pretty paranoid by now.......PMSL......and all of us here who have slogged away at these threads waiting for your pearls of wisdom must be on some sort of mind warping trip because none of us can remember seeing the answers......SPOOOKY!!!!!
 
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Freaky isn't it! Everything else is there apart from the answers Patty says she gave but that no one else can remember.......

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So the Queen of Quotes can find things that was written 1 year back but hers have "disappeared" PMSL
 
Ok - I understand that you havent ever said all of the dead horses were dug up, but that wasn't actually the question I asked.

I shall break it down into a few more basic lines so that we are both clear what it is I am trying to establish
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1 - What connection do you have with the greys?

2 - Why do you have such an interest in this case?

3 - For what purpose are you collating this information?

4 - Do you have evidence of the horses that were dug up?

5 - Why did the horses in the above photo's remain decomposing for such a long period of time (note - due to the level of decomposition, I am assuming the length of time was more than say 'a couple of weeks' which would more than compensate for any christmas period delays)

As you say that you have answered these things before and they were lost, perhaps you wouldn't mind answering them again?!

Many thanks and look forward to your clarification!
 
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