only_me
Well-Known Member
going by what eric smiley has said in H&H today, do you think that the combination bits are unsuitable for eventing?
so, what do you think about myler combination bits then?
- Thread starter only_me
- Start date
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
I don't buy H&H so enlighten me....
dieseldog
Well-Known Member
Why is he saying that they are unsuitable? If your horse likes them what is the problem?
only_me
Well-Known Member
oh, its also the milkmar by the way
he said that he believes that they are dangerous as they "are designed to be ridden in a loose contact and provide an instant break, like in western riding"
then he says that our sport requires direct and consistent contact. says that the bit will cause pain in the mouth, which could cause the horse to run through the bit and try to find relief, which distracts them from the fence. therefore horse jumps hollow as horse has put head up due to the elevator action, and often hits fences above knee causing rotational falls. he wants them banned from FEI comps!!
he does also say that on a fall/incident report they shoud name the bit that the horse has, so that they can collect some data to see which bits cause the most falls.
he said that he believes that they are dangerous as they "are designed to be ridden in a loose contact and provide an instant break, like in western riding"
then he says that our sport requires direct and consistent contact. says that the bit will cause pain in the mouth, which could cause the horse to run through the bit and try to find relief, which distracts them from the fence. therefore horse jumps hollow as horse has put head up due to the elevator action, and often hits fences above knee causing rotational falls. he wants them banned from FEI comps!!
he does also say that on a fall/incident report they shoud name the bit that the horse has, so that they can collect some data to see which bits cause the most falls.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Could the same not be said for all gags? Especially the American gag?
I personally think its a bit far fetched but the idea of the bit is surely that a half halt is responsive on a strong horse rather than being ignored?
I think it comes down to that age old issue that some bits are dangerous in the wrong hands and riders must be educated before making a decision on a choice of bit rather than just because so and so is using it to great effect.
I personally think its a bit far fetched but the idea of the bit is surely that a half halt is responsive on a strong horse rather than being ignored?
I think it comes down to that age old issue that some bits are dangerous in the wrong hands and riders must be educated before making a decision on a choice of bit rather than just because so and so is using it to great effect.
MissDeMeena
Well-Known Member
I don't like them, but then i don't like the american gag either! anything with a long metal shank...
I've not read the bit in H&H, but i agree with the comment above.. i like to have a constant contact XC.. if you've got your weight in the right place you should be able to stop your horse without having to haul on its mouth!!!
I've not read the bit in H&H, but i agree with the comment above.. i like to have a constant contact XC.. if you've got your weight in the right place you should be able to stop your horse without having to haul on its mouth!!!
rubyslippers
Active Member
Agree with MDM and lec. My concern with these ever more severe bits, and what I hate to see, is the use of a very harsh bit as a replacement for proper riding. That's not to say that you can't ride properly in a severe bit - just that it shouldn't be a replacement for.
IMHO these combination bits are very much an end of the line option - because lets face it, if the horse runs through that - you have few places left to go. Unfortunately, judging by the amount of them you see (at the lower levels especially), it would appear they are not being seen in that light.
IMHO these combination bits are very much an end of the line option - because lets face it, if the horse runs through that - you have few places left to go. Unfortunately, judging by the amount of them you see (at the lower levels especially), it would appear they are not being seen in that light.
Foxglove
Well-Known Member
I generally believe that it is the hands at the end of the reins that cause the problems. Nowadays people are too quick to put a stronger bit in a horse's mouth, possibly because the choice is so vast and the companies marketing the bits can put across a very convincing argument.
Personally I think the Myler combo is nothing more than a stopping implement, fairly harsh due to the narrowness of the rawhide noseband and mouthpiece and I would not use one (and yes I have had very stong horses in the past). I have seen horses rip their mouths to shreds due to running through the bridle with one in, however this was due the person not using it correctly and the horse did not understand the concept.
Although I generally agree with Eric Smiley, I don't think an outright ban would work as it is personal choice and some horses quite obviously do respond to them.
Perhaps there could berules on misuse of a bit, in the same way as misuse of the whip? Or do these already exsist in the myriad of rules?
Personally I think the Myler combo is nothing more than a stopping implement, fairly harsh due to the narrowness of the rawhide noseband and mouthpiece and I would not use one (and yes I have had very stong horses in the past). I have seen horses rip their mouths to shreds due to running through the bridle with one in, however this was due the person not using it correctly and the horse did not understand the concept.
Although I generally agree with Eric Smiley, I don't think an outright ban would work as it is personal choice and some horses quite obviously do respond to them.
Perhaps there could berules on misuse of a bit, in the same way as misuse of the whip? Or do these already exsist in the myriad of rules?
gerrygiraffe
Well-Known Member
I am of the belief that training has a lot to do with the way a horse goes and although I don't condone these bits, in the right hands they can be useful. I have also seen a heavy handed rider (sucessful amateur to 2*) rip open a horses mouth with just a snaffle in the school.
I have seen so many horses with huge amounts of metal in their mouths even at local level. Bits should not be a short cut to good training and that foremost comes from the rider.
I have seen so many horses with huge amounts of metal in their mouths even at local level. Bits should not be a short cut to good training and that foremost comes from the rider.
Bossanova
Well-Known Member
My problems on Boss came when I didnt have control and we jumped too fast and flat.
Myler combi gave me control and as a consequence, we were far safer across country. It was the only bit, of many million I tried, which gave me control without a battle
Myler combi gave me control and as a consequence, we were far safer across country. It was the only bit, of many million I tried, which gave me control without a battle
kerilli
Well-Known Member
i always thought they were a potentially very harsh bit, and didn't ever want to use one. then bought my mare, and was assured that they'd tried lots of bits, and the myler combo 3-barrel was the only one she went sweetly in for jumping. duly went out and bought one, and a combo comfort snaffle for good measure, as a softer option... or so i thought.
maybe it's my different way of riding, but the combo only worked once or twice, then she ran through it and was virtually uncontrollable/unstoppable indoor sjing. having to haul on one of those is not nice at all, poor horse, poor me. they are a precision instrument, not a pull-as-hard-as-you-can device. the mare went very hollow and was having 75cm fences behind.
after a lot of thought, i now have her in a lozenge kimblewick, and she is much much happier. i have gone back to my original thinking about the myler combos, and i think Eric Smiley's right tbh.
maybe it's my different way of riding, but the combo only worked once or twice, then she ran through it and was virtually uncontrollable/unstoppable indoor sjing. having to haul on one of those is not nice at all, poor horse, poor me. they are a precision instrument, not a pull-as-hard-as-you-can device. the mare went very hollow and was having 75cm fences behind.
after a lot of thought, i now have her in a lozenge kimblewick, and she is much much happier. i have gone back to my original thinking about the myler combos, and i think Eric Smiley's right tbh.
sachak
Well-Known Member
it doesnt suit all horses i guess, but with all bit changes etc you should look at schooling/any pain issues etc before changing up a gear
wishfulthinking
Well-Known Member
I haven't got my copy of h&h yet but it sounds very like the article that he wrote for eventing about three years ago. He makes a good argument. I haven't used this bit myself so don't know exactly what they are like but having taked to Eric about this and listened to his logic I'm inclined to agree.
Weezy
Well-Known Member
I challenge anyone who says the Myler Combi is a "harsh" bit.
Bossanova
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I haven't got my copy of h&h yet but it sounds very like the article that he wrote for eventing about three years ago. He makes a good argument. I haven't used this bit myself so don't know exactly what they are like but having taked to Eric about this and listened to his logic I'm inclined to agree.
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Hasnt Eric said all this before? Wasnt it him who wrote an article saying there should be no need for strong bits xc and that we all train our horses wrong?
I haven't got my copy of h&h yet but it sounds very like the article that he wrote for eventing about three years ago. He makes a good argument. I haven't used this bit myself so don't know exactly what they are like but having taked to Eric about this and listened to his logic I'm inclined to agree.
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Hasnt Eric said all this before? Wasnt it him who wrote an article saying there should be no need for strong bits xc and that we all train our horses wrong?
Ferdinase514
Well-Known Member
This is pretty much what he was saying in the article. He also reiterated his dislike for the 3 ring gag.
Weezy
Well-Known Member
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Hasnt Eric said all this before? Wasnt it him who wrote an article saying there should be no need for strong bits xc and that we all train our horses wrong?
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Yup. I actually smirked to myself as I read the article and said in my head *Well Eric, why don't YOU take Bossy round XC in a snaffle and see how you get on*
Hasnt Eric said all this before? Wasnt it him who wrote an article saying there should be no need for strong bits xc and that we all train our horses wrong?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup. I actually smirked to myself as I read the article and said in my head *Well Eric, why don't YOU take Bossy round XC in a snaffle and see how you get on*
Bossanova
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
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Hasnt Eric said all this before? Wasnt it him who wrote an article saying there should be no need for strong bits xc and that we all train our horses wrong?
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How I'd love to see that!!
Mary King rides all her 4* horses in an american gag. Sarah Cohen uses the myler longshank on both her 4* horses. Are they bad riders?
Yup. I actually smirked to myself as I read the article and said in my head *Well Eric, why don't YOU take Bossy round XC in a snaffle and see how you get on*
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hasnt Eric said all this before? Wasnt it him who wrote an article saying there should be no need for strong bits xc and that we all train our horses wrong?
[/ QUOTE ]
How I'd love to see that!!
Mary King rides all her 4* horses in an american gag. Sarah Cohen uses the myler longshank on both her 4* horses. Are they bad riders?
Yup. I actually smirked to myself as I read the article and said in my head *Well Eric, why don't YOU take Bossy round XC in a snaffle and see how you get on*
[/ QUOTE ]
Wiz
Well-Known Member
I think he makes valid point about training sometimes being needed rather than stronger bit - but some horses are strong and these bits work well for them. But you do have to ride with less contact on them till you want the bit to come into action which is a different way of riding that perhaps isn't used when the bit is tried without someone experienced advising. I rode in one for a while so that I could use less contact between fences knowing he would respect it infront of the fence. With other bits I had to keep hold of him more so I knew I'd got him as otherwise I would get to a fence and get no reaction.
At the lower levels rather than recording the bit on fall reports maybe if someone has more than one fall in a season they shouldn't be allowed to compete again until they've been assessed by a BE trainer??
At the lower levels rather than recording the bit on fall reports maybe if someone has more than one fall in a season they shouldn't be allowed to compete again until they've been assessed by a BE trainer??
kerilli
Well-Known Member
Wiz, my natural way of riding is with very little contact and the odd slight correction, but there was no way my mare would let me do this with the Myler combo, she just got stronger and stronger and ran into the pain. every time i softened, she accelerated harder. when i checked her, she fought it even more. it was ridiculous, and probably the most out of control i have ever been. it was bad enough sj, if that had happened xc i think i would have retired tbh. the horse's attention was 99% on fighting the bit, not on the fences or my input.
i totally agree with what he said about the horse having responsibility for jumping the fence, and that's how i'd normally want to ride (ideally in a snaffle, as all my eventers have done before), but i also agree with Boss etc above - some horses just simply need more than that, and would be downright dangerous without a more influential bit.
i totally agree with what he said about the horse having responsibility for jumping the fence, and that's how i'd normally want to ride (ideally in a snaffle, as all my eventers have done before), but i also agree with Boss etc above - some horses just simply need more than that, and would be downright dangerous without a more influential bit.
kizzywiz
Well-Known Member
I don't believe the Myler Combo is harsh, mine has the comfort snaffle mouthpiece, which doesn't even come in to play on the mouth unless you take a firmer contact. My mare jumps well in hers, it helps keep her up off her shoulders, & I don't have to sit back & pull, unlike when she had her waterford on. Before you all jump on me, yes I need to keep her more engaged to keep her up off her forehand by using the half halt, however when I have used my maximum half halt & she is still leaning down on me, as a mere mortal I needed a bit of extra help. I hope that I won't need this help forever, & ideally would be able to jump her in a snaffle, but if I can't then I would rather use a lighter rein aid in the Myler, than haul her gob off in a snaffle. Whoever posted about correct position of weight meaning you could jump round in a snaffle is welcome to come & have a go, cos if it was that simple, I'd be doing that already!! Perhaps we are't all perfect, but the kindest of bits can be harsh in the wrong hands.
Wiz
Well-Known Member
Wasn't making the point of how it is used at anyone specifically and obviously your mare didn't accept that bit and was happier in something less. But you agree that some horses may need something more but you agree with ES that they should be banned so what do those people use?
I think Eric is trying to say a lot of people are using bits because they are available and top riders are using them and that they are unsafe because they are not using them correctly. Surely therefore the problem is more with how they are used than the bit itself? Not all horses resist to them in the way he describes but might do with another bit
I think Eric is trying to say a lot of people are using bits because they are available and top riders are using them and that they are unsafe because they are not using them correctly. Surely therefore the problem is more with how they are used than the bit itself? Not all horses resist to them in the way he describes but might do with another bit
WFL
Well-Known Member
I've been using 1 for XC for ages.
And by the way, who is Eric Smiley?
And by the way, who is Eric Smiley?
rubyslippers
Active Member
"I challenge anyone who says the Myler Combi is a "harsh" bit"
Weezy - are you saying you don't think the Myler combi is harsh?
Weezy - are you saying you don't think the Myler combi is harsh?
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
I think that all these people who say a horse should go in a snaffle or it isn't well schooled enough, or that shifting weight alone with a snaffle should be enough would do well to remember two things:
1. The majority of us are amateur riders who ride one horse a day for about 45 mins. We work full time and whilst we school our horses to the best of our ability we lack both the finesse and the time which a professional has to devote to these things. I'd never jump let alone go XC if I listened to that kind of thing seriously. We have 1 ride a day on our horse in which to try and improve 3 different disciplines.
2. Not all of us are big strong men. Do people really believe that me, as a five foot 8.5 stone woman shifting my weight on the back of a 16.3 will have the same effect as WFP or Andrew Hoy doing the same thing? Really?! Coz I sure as hell don't!
So due to my lack of schooling ability, weight and height, I will stick to jumping in a jointed pelham as it seems to be ok for me and the horse...
1. The majority of us are amateur riders who ride one horse a day for about 45 mins. We work full time and whilst we school our horses to the best of our ability we lack both the finesse and the time which a professional has to devote to these things. I'd never jump let alone go XC if I listened to that kind of thing seriously. We have 1 ride a day on our horse in which to try and improve 3 different disciplines.
2. Not all of us are big strong men. Do people really believe that me, as a five foot 8.5 stone woman shifting my weight on the back of a 16.3 will have the same effect as WFP or Andrew Hoy doing the same thing? Really?! Coz I sure as hell don't!
So due to my lack of schooling ability, weight and height, I will stick to jumping in a jointed pelham as it seems to be ok for me and the horse...
HairyHatMan
Well-Known Member
I really didn't want to read this just before our first event of the season.....
Shadow is not particularly strong at all. Last year we did all 3 phases in a loose ring happy mouth snaffle with a lozenge.
However she has very sensitive skin and after an sj or xc round, where she does "go on a bit" and evades by lowering her head she has a split bleeding mouth.
I've just bought a Happy mouth american gag, which I've only done some fast work at home in. She will go forward in it happily but comes back to me on a sixpence and doesn't bury her head like she does jumping in other normal snaffle variations.
My theory here is I can let her go at her own pace, knowing if I need to check her it won't take so much from me, thus causing less trauma to her mouth...
Thoughts?
Shadow is not particularly strong at all. Last year we did all 3 phases in a loose ring happy mouth snaffle with a lozenge.
However she has very sensitive skin and after an sj or xc round, where she does "go on a bit" and evades by lowering her head she has a split bleeding mouth.
I've just bought a Happy mouth american gag, which I've only done some fast work at home in. She will go forward in it happily but comes back to me on a sixpence and doesn't bury her head like she does jumping in other normal snaffle variations.
My theory here is I can let her go at her own pace, knowing if I need to check her it won't take so much from me, thus causing less trauma to her mouth...
Thoughts?
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
HHM - sounds perfectly sensible to me. Frankly if you tried to take all the 'advice' on board from articles like this then you'd go nuts. If it works for you then use it. I doubt Mary King lost any sleep or thought 'I must school more and do this in a snaffle' when she was using a rubber pelham and kineton noseband on Call Again Cavalier
HairyHatMan
Well-Known Member
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HHM - sounds perfectly sensible to me. Frankly if you tried to take all the 'advice' on board from articles like this then you'd go nuts. If it works for you then use it.
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Thank you, I'll go with that
HHM - sounds perfectly sensible to me. Frankly if you tried to take all the 'advice' on board from articles like this then you'd go nuts. If it works for you then use it.
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Thank you, I'll go with that
mat
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I challenge anyone who says the Myler Combi is a "harsh" bit.
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Ditto... I rode one of my jumpers in a loose ring snaffle, which is obviously very mild. she was unhappy in this and threw her head up when a contact was taken but i did have good brakes.
I then tried a short shank myler combo, and she is 100x happier. it spreads the pressure eveny over different ponits of the head and is actually less harsh on the mouth. she now is absolutely settled in her mouth and never throws her head around. Although I have slightly less braking I can keep her in a regular rhythm and she jumps much better and extremely round now. I guess in the wrong hands any piece of kit can have the potential to be damaging though.....
I challenge anyone who says the Myler Combi is a "harsh" bit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto... I rode one of my jumpers in a loose ring snaffle, which is obviously very mild. she was unhappy in this and threw her head up when a contact was taken but i did have good brakes.
I then tried a short shank myler combo, and she is 100x happier. it spreads the pressure eveny over different ponits of the head and is actually less harsh on the mouth. she now is absolutely settled in her mouth and never throws her head around. Although I have slightly less braking I can keep her in a regular rhythm and she jumps much better and extremely round now. I guess in the wrong hands any piece of kit can have the potential to be damaging though.....
mat
Well-Known Member
ps.. I still school her in the loose ring and she is VERY responsive, and it could certainly not be said that the bit I use for jumping is a replacement for good basic schooling.