so, what do you think about myler combination bits then?

Some horse can be trained to listen more to your weight but some can't.
I have a 17.1 eventer, who before i got him was ridden by a man in a pelham, i'm 5ft5 and weigh 8.5 and have always ridden him in a snaffle. We were told when we got him that he could be very strong, well i've never really had a problem, done alot of work on his Showjumping (becuase thats where he was very strong) and also on flat and now he listens almost totally to my weight.
On the Other hand i have a barely 15.1 whos head goes on the ground and hes off, i'm trying to work him thorugh it as his dressage isnt there yet but likelihood is he will have to go in something stronger.
I prefer to stay in simple snaffles but not all horses except it. i do see where eric Smiley is coming from though in alot of aspects.
 
I agree with Weezy too, and SC! My pony is perfectly well schooled and as some of you know I was having issues with xc and him burrying his head. Tried numerous bits, including the Myler combo. It did work well although Sparky wasn't quite happy and got his tongue over the but 3 times so haven't used it again. This obv isn't a great experience with it however it did work brilliantly...when his tongue was in the right place
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I would like to add, that if I hack in a snaffle, I have no hope in hell!!! Does this make me a bad rider that I cannot stop my pony in a snaffle???
Now in a pelham which is fab
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tried a myler combo for showjuping to stop mad 16.3 warmblood demolishing everything in site as he just ran at it. certainly stopped him. sadly stopped him dead the first time i gave him a firm half halt (no hauling though) and got 4 penalties for disobedience. when we rang up to see if the noseband needed covering (rang the myler people) they said the rawhide was fine. i didn't like it but they insisted i should use it like that and if i padded it it wouldn't work. well now know they must always be padded as the noseband dented his nose as i tried to stop. took horse straight out of bit and loads of schooling later he stops running, is in an english gag which only comes into play for the last stride where he still runs (still schooling, getting there!) now really distrust those bits as if u catch them xc it could be very bad even if the horse stumbles and the rider catches it.
 
The noseband DENTED your horse's nose???? Sorry but it is incredible to hear that. I have ridden some very strong horses in a myler combi, I don't have the best hands, I admit that, and I have never had so much as a little rub from one. Do you have a picture of the dent please.
 
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tried a myler combo for showjuping to stop mad 16.3 warmblood demolishing everything in site as he just ran at it. certainly stopped him. sadly stopped him dead the first time i gave him a firm half halt (no hauling though) and got 4 penalties for disobedience. when we rang up to see if the noseband needed covering (rang the myler people) they said the rawhide was fine. i didn't like it but they insisted i should use it like that and if i padded it it wouldn't work. well now know they must always be padded as the noseband dented his nose as i tried to stop. took horse straight out of bit and loads of schooling later he stops running, is in an english gag which only comes into play for the last stride where he still runs (still schooling, getting there!) now really distrust those bits as if u catch them xc it could be very bad even if the horse stumbles and the rider catches it.

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You must have applied A LOT of force

I cover mine with sheepskin. You dont have to. It's advisable to soak the nose piece in hot water to soften it and mould it to each horse's nose if you're not covering it- horse's have different shaped noses and it's not one size fits all.
 
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oh, its also the milkmar by the way
he said that he believes that they are dangerous as they "are designed to be ridden in a loose contact and provide an instant break, like in western riding"



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Hang on - is he slating all combination bits including Mylers - or is his main rant about Mikmars which are a totally different kettle of haddock and are HORRIBLE.

I never thought myler combinations were a problem at all but I'd never even consider a Mikmar or however its spelled...
 
I am a fan of basic intellegence - use the right bit correctly on the right horse and it works wonders, use the wrong bit for that horse or put it in the wrong hands and it can be a disaster.

I am afraid I do not agree with any kind of blanket ban on these kind of bits especially when there is so much evidence of horses that do well in them.

Unfortunately the horse world will always be littered with examples of bad riding and when you throw "strong" equipment into that as well (be it bits, nosebands, martingales, training aids etc) it makes a bad situation worse.
 
Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou
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I read the article in H&H and immediately started feeling totally inadequate that I ride my ex racer in a NS jumper for XC and SJ (its a cross between an American gag and an elevator). I am very light in my hands but he is bloody strong and he combines leaning very heavily with keeping his head high in the air to take control. We have been going very well in this bit but when I read this article I felt so guilty I was straight onto the Neue Schule website trying to find myself a pelham
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But you have reminded me that we are not all perfect and for those of us that have to spend 99% of our lives working to pay for our beloved horses we should give ourselves a break sometimes. I know I don't haul him in the mouth - so you have convinced me to leave buying the pelham for another day!
 
Wiz, i think Eric Smiley's main gripe with these type of bits is that their action severely hollows the horse... the last thing you want coming to a fixed fence. i agree, fwiw - nothing wrong with certain types of strong bits, but not this type if that is the action it has on the horse that fights it. the ones that don't fight it, and go happily in it, are obviously a different matter!
my friend bought a former 4-star horse who had been ridden xc in a myler combo for ages, and yes, he had a permanent dent in his nose. the rawhide is not soft, even if you soften and mould it around the horse's nose, as i did. a lot of people pad them, and i did too, because it takes some of the pain/harshness away. i know Myler advise against this, but Myler designed them for western riding, = loose rein, neck-reining to steer, weight aids to slow, occasional touch on the reins = stop dead. the total opposite of how we train our horses to the bit.
i would much rather have a horse in a bit that has a slight curb action (such as a kimblewick, pelham etc), or in a slight elevating action (gag etc), to counteract that particular horse's natural way of pulling (out and down, or in and behind the contact, respectively), than in a bit that makes the horse hollow if it is fighting it.

oh, and if the "who is Eric Smiley" question was genuine, he's a former international irish eventer, now a course builder, F.B.H.S. i believe, Ground Jury member at 4*s etc i think, and trainer. he knows a LOT about xc riding, and has only the good of the sport, riders and horses in mind.
 
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I am a fan of basic intellegence - use the right bit correctly on the right horse and it works wonders, use the wrong bit for that horse or put it in the wrong hands and it can be a disaster.

I am afraid I do not agree with any kind of blanket ban on these kind of bits especially when there is so much evidence of horses that do well in them.

Unfortunately the horse world will always be littered with examples of bad riding and when you throw "strong" equipment into that as well (be it bits, nosebands, martingales, training aids etc) it makes a bad situation worse.

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i totally agree with you..
i think the main point Eric was trying to get across was about people who use such bits/gadgets etc as a short cut instead of using training to improve the horses way of going.
i agree that some horses need a stronger bit and will never go XC in a simple snaffle, thats just life.
i have recently gone back to riding my horse SJ and XC in a snaffle (was in a 2 ring 'bubble' bit for 2 seasons) and was rewarded with a lovely clear SJ and a fab ride XC at our first event of 2008, we went back to some basics in training and this has solved the problem we had with control in the last 3/4 strides into a fence.. i also feel that he is much happier XC in a lighter bit, in those last few strides into a fence when i let him take over, in a stronger bit he doesn't take me forward in his stride as well..
i think it all boils down to the fact that any bit/spur/gadget can do severe damage in the wrong hands..
 
aha, AandK, you've just hit the nail on the head. "in those last few strides into a fence when i let him take over"... yes yes yes! that's exactly what Eric was saying, and exactly what a lot of people don't do, because they don't/can't trust the horse, so they micro-manage it all the way to the take-off point. even some of the top riders do this. it takes the horse's ability to think for himself away, and is the worst thing about modern xc riding imho.
 
thank you.!!
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that is such a valid point...
i recently had a XC lesson with an instructor i have never had before, it was a brill session and she was amazed at how much i trust Andy when it came to jumping the fences which IMO can only be a good thing. we have such a great partnership on the ground and when ridden that i know if we come in a bit wrong he can sort it out without my assistance.. another instructor at a XC clinic also commented on how clever he is..
that is what i have always thought XC riding is all about, the partnership and the trust between horse and rider..
 
yes, exactly. but when people try to go too fast, or too big, too soon, they don't have the trust, hence they do too much to compensate, and imho that's when a lot of these bad falls etc can ensue. huge generalisation i know, but i'll stick to my guns on this one!
Lucinda Green's clinics are very good for this - she doesn't mind if the rider misses (unlike a lot of trainers, who have given me a b******ing for it!), she'll just say "good, he'll learn from that, come again!" she wants you to put the ball in the horse's court, not do everything for him... bravo Lucinda.
 
Agree 100% re Lucinda. I have previously been b*ll*cked for not doing enough to the base of the fence with my young horse, but I want him to work things out for himself so dont mind if he chips in/stands off a bit. Lucinda applauded this, and said it makes them a damn site cleverer across country if they have learnt it for themselves!!
 
absolutely. and from bitter experience (and watching friends who actually got totally put off and gave up eventing completely), trainers who bollock you for missing do absolutely nothing but destroy your confidence in yourself. you shouldn't be doing things to the base of a fence with a young horse... how the hell is he supposed to learn if you're encouraged to do 99% of it for him? are we supposed to lift their legs up for them too?
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glad we are all reading off the same page here, Lucinda is one of if not THE best XC rider of all time..

FYI i have just had visions of some kind of pully system with string attached to the horses front legs on one end and the riders hands on the other end.. gives a whole new meaning to 'lifting' a horse over a fence...
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One trainer near me would have happily ruined my horses confidence as she likes everything to go flat out into things, and my horse just wont do this! Bad thing is this person is very highly thought of, teaches alot of pony club yet never actually teaches the horses the job, just a "leap before they look" mentality
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Scary
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yes, exactly. but when people try to go too fast, or too big, too soon, they don't have the trust, hence they do too much to compensate, and imho that's when a lot of these bad falls etc can ensue. huge generalisation i know, but i'll stick to my guns on this one!
Lucinda Green's clinics are very good for this - she doesn't mind if the rider misses (unlike a lot of trainers, who have given me a b******ing for it!), she'll just say "good, he'll learn from that, come again!" she wants you to put the ball in the horse's court, not do everything for him... bravo Lucinda.

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Caroline Moore was v good for this too at the XC roadshow I did - I let my horse sort it out - all I do is establish the rhythm and pick the line, so we aren't always perfect to a fence but he always sorts himself out and generally doesn't touch them - that happened to a corner fence in the clinic and she actualyl said to the others that there was nothing wrong with that as long as you don't get in the way as it helps the horse to learn - one person was picked up on for being too obsessed with having the perfect stride and not letting the horse work things out itself occasionally which I thought was really interesteing as you don't hear trainers saying that much these days.
 
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Mikmars which are a totally different kettle of haddock and are HORRIBLE.

I never thought myler combinations were a problem at all but I'd never even consider a Mikmar or however its spelled...

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No they're not. While I haven't used one on my horses they are no harsher than a myler, american gag or any other long shanked bit. Just because they look different doesn't make them evil
 
Kerilli she was seriously good, I really clicked with her style of teaching as she picked up on little lazy things I do which are important to correct (like letting my horse go quarters in in canter) but the stuff like that she left well alone. She was picky and critical about the right things IMO, and if she was closer I would have lessons with her like a shot.
 
Spot on kerilli.

Re: challenging anyone who says a myler combination is a harsh bit. Of course it is, that's why people 'resort' to it! No one brings on a youngster hoping it will eventually run in a myler combi.
- And why are Mikmar bits a different kettle of fish? According to Mikmar, "As the rider applies pressure to the reins, this unique design disperses pressure to the nose, mouth, chin, and poll areas. Frank Evans' goal was to be able to protect a horse's mouth and at the same time get desired results. It sends a clearer signal to the horse, allowing the rider to use a softer hand" - All the reasons you gave for the myler NOT being harsh!

Not everything can run in a snaffle - but many horses who don't, could.
 
All I know about the myler short-shank combination is that I've got little brakes and no steering when I use one on PF. I use a Tom Thumb french link instead and used to use a happy mouth dutch gag both of which she goes much better in!
 
I just couldn't put that much metal in a horses mouth.

I understand and agree with all the points of a snaffle is as bad in the wrong hands as a gag or a myler or whatever, but I can't see how a horse can be comfortable with

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in its mouth.

I've not really looked into it but if it works for people - it works and don't mind me! I just personally would not want to use that though I would happily use whatever bit be it gag or peham or snaffle - if it suited the horse and I had the hands for it.
 
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