so... what is a competition horse?

jools1234 said:
charlie this is the sort of comment i need explaining to me, when a horse is jumping a course of showjumps or going round a xcountry course (or anything its does to compete) how on earth does it know it is competing against others? and if it did how does it know what it has to do in order to win?
Click to expand...

I hoestly don't know- maybe it's the buzz of the atmosphere? I had a horse who was probably what you'd describe as a low-level competition horse. He needed to be going out and showing off. If the lorry went and he wasn't on it he'd sulk (or just look sad) for days. At shows, he was always on best behaviour, whereas schooling he was an utter tit. I have no idea what was different for him.

I think a competition horse is one whose main job is to compete on a regular basis. So all their work is geared towards the competing, and their primary goal is to achieve at these competitions. So both Bee and Reg are competition horses, despite not being high-end competitors, because their primary purpose is to go to events... I think!
 
I would say the breeding would be the difference between a comp horse and any other sport horse for example say- Diament De Semilly/ Numero Uno/Chin Chin horses would take a fraction more effort/care to produce as youngsters say 4/5 yo because they like to be mentally and physically worked they enjoy being faced with various challenges and can thrive on education and big competition environments but not every home/rider can offer this or what they do offer the horses learn so fast that they then become somewhat better than the rider i.e when u teach these horses for example to jump 2ft which they will master quickly, they are bred to, the sport type horses then want to go and jump 3/4ft, the 2ft jumps become boring and non-challenging but unfortunately 2ft is the current riders limit. But these are sport horses a lot of other breed/types of horse will be happy jumping 1/2ft all day and schooling in a monotonous system day after day the type just above riding schools I would say they were just decent competition/amateur horses – of course this isn’t 100% accurate all the time because all horses vary but I think it would be safe to say that unfortunately a lot of well bred horse/sport types do end up in the wrong hands as for youngsters going from un-backed – sport horse depends entirely on the people doing the producing say in my yard the minute we start mouthing a youngster its being produced to go and have a life in sport so in theory its started a life as a sport horse instantly and within 6weeks it would be jumping at shows but the same horse in a neighboring yard may do a seasons showing under saddle which to me is not sport!!!!
 
You know what strikes me odd when I read these threads, how much better racehorses have it than sporthorses. Oh yeah, you can moan all you want about the early breaking yet it's a heck of a lot more sympathetic than what I'm getting from the so called "sporthorse" sector.

I sold a mare to the U.S. She was broken as a late 2yo. Turned away for the winter and started back at 3. I hacked her through fields, took her other places to be ridden, and some light arena work. She went on to be one of the top 4yo's at the WEF and again as a 5yo. Had a baby, then was a junior jumper and is now eventing at 11. I was told how nice it was to have such a compliant unspoiled do anything for you youngster. Made a change from the normal had too much too soon types.

The racehorses came back on breaks and went straight out for 2 months(coming in at night) before starting back in work. The youngsters we broke for racing we were told could lead the string on their first day out to the gallops. They looked like little show horses, were mannerly, and you never had to worry they'd buck you off. So you know I'm sorry I don't agree with this crap that Rome has to be built in 6 weeks. You can do things in a way that is pleasant for the horse and still have a pretty good competition horse. If they have talent and a good rider they'll do just fine. Unless you ruin their confidence. I've seen some super GP SJ's that get it all together at 11 and haven't done the young horse classes but yet the slower approach worked for them. This attitude of if they aren't super stars at 4&5 they'll be nothing leaves a lot of ruined competition horses. Thankfully there does seem to be some people that can take it slower with competition horses. When my mare does jumper schooling it's over gymnastic type work and never over 90cm's. She has the scope to be a 1.30 horse. We know that's there, we don't have to keep jumping those heights because she can. They don't get bored jumping smaller. There's lots of technical to work on too that makes them better jumpers. Jumping a single fence at 2ft over and over, yeah maybe. But they also need respect for whatever is put in front of them. You pretty much know what you have when you have a 1.10m spread in the loose chute and your mare trots up, leaves out a stride, and has the power to land 3 strides away from the fence like it's nothing. The raw power is there. Don't need to sour it by jumping big all the time. I learned this from one of America's best. Maybe it's wrong but his words sure have helped me with my mare.

Terri
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
You know what strikes me odd when I read these threads, how much better racehorses have it than sporthorses. Oh yeah, you can moan all you want about the early breaking yet it's a heck of a lot more sympathetic than what I'm getting from the so called "sporthorse" sector.

I sold a mare to the U.S. She was broken as a late 2yo. Turned away for the winter and started back at 3. I hacked her through fields, took her other places to be ridden, and some light arena work. She went on to be one of the top 4yo's at the WEF and again as a 5yo. Had a baby, then was a junior jumper and is now eventing at 11. I was told how nice it was to have such a compliant unspoiled do anything for you youngster. Made a change from the normal had too much too soon types.

The racehorses came back on breaks and went straight out for 2 months(coming in at night) before starting back in work. The youngsters we broke for racing we were told could lead the string on their first day out to the gallops. They looked like little show horses, were mannerly, and you never had to worry they'd buck you off. So you know I'm sorry I don't agree with this crap that Rome has to be built in 6 weeks. You can do things in a way that is pleasant for the horse and still have a pretty good competition horse. If they have talent and a good rider they'll do just fine. Unless you ruin their confidence. I've seen some super GP SJ's that get it all together at 11 and haven't done the young horse classes but yet the slower approach worked for them. This attitude of if they aren't super stars at 4&5 they'll be nothing leaves a lot of ruined competition horses. Thankfully there does seem to be some people that can take it slower with competition horses. When my mare does jumper schooling it's over gymnastic type work and never over 90cm's. She has the scope to be a 1.30 horse. We know that's there, we don't have to keep jumping those heights because she can. They don't get bored jumping smaller. There's lots of technical to work on too that makes them better jumpers. Jumping a single fence at 2ft over and over, yeah maybe. But they also need respect for whatever is put in front of them. You pretty much know what you have when you have a 1.10m spread in the loose chute and your mare trots up, leaves out a stride, and has the power to land 3 strides away from the fence like it's nothing. The raw power is there. Don't need to sour it by jumping big all the time. I learned this from one of America's best. Maybe it's wrong but his words sure have helped me with my mare.

Terri
Click to expand...

Totally agree, some horses you can push some you cant, thats what sets the good horsemen apart from the rest.
 
wench said:
You could take any old nag out to competitions everyweek, but IMO, this would not make it a "competition" horse.

To me, a competition horse is one that is either competing at top level with an ambitious amateur (not necessarily winning, due to competing against pro's, but being able to do the job reasonably) OR one kept at a pro's yard, going out to competitions on a regular basis, and doing well/winning.

A similar post was in CR approx 18 months ago. I got in trouble for describing a "competition" horse as an allrounder.
Click to expand...

I got into trouble too. I think a "good allrounder" type could go to competitions at lower affiliated levels and win, but wouldn't go to higher levels, so wouldn't be a real competition horse. For me a competition horse would go up the levels fairly quickly and winning points/prizes..

And yes some horses are bred to be competition horses. Some people buy competition horses with the aim of seeing them progress with a pro rider (most pro eventer's horses are owned by other people). When I groomed for a pro rider, the owners would often have one horse competing at intermediate or advanced, and would be on the look out for a youngster to replace it in the future - often looking at the same bloodlines and breeders - horses that were bred to be competition horses...

My own horse may have been a competition horse if a pro had had her (one offered to buy her when she was 7). She may have got to int/advanced eventing. She never will get past BE100 with me as I'm a coward. So she has been a good allrounder, who has done/won everything at local level. When I was younger, a good allrounder was an impressive horse to have, and most people didn't bother about bloodlines etc, just general conformation and attitude. Nowadays people want names and labels - to show off. Even a mongrel dog gets given a silly name and a silly price tag!
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
You know what strikes me odd when I read these threads, how much better racehorses have it than sporthorses. Oh yeah, you can moan all you want about the early breaking yet it's a heck of a lot more sympathetic than what I'm getting from the so called "sporthorse" sector.

I sold a mare to the U.S. She was broken as a late 2yo. Turned away for the winter and started back at 3. I hacked her through fields, took her other places to be ridden, and some light arena work. She went on to be one of the top 4yo's at the WEF and again as a 5yo. Had a baby, then was a junior jumper and is now eventing at 11. I was told how nice it was to have such a compliant unspoiled do anything for you youngster. Made a change from the normal had too much too soon types.

The racehorses came back on breaks and went straight out for 2 months(coming in at night) before starting back in work. The youngsters we broke for racing we were told could lead the string on their first day out to the gallops. They looked like little show horses, were mannerly, and you never had to worry they'd buck you off. So you know I'm sorry I don't agree with this crap that Rome has to be built in 6 weeks. You can do things in a way that is pleasant for the horse and still have a pretty good competition horse. If they have talent and a good rider they'll do just fine. Unless you ruin their confidence. I've seen some super GP SJ's that get it all together at 11 and haven't done the young horse classes but yet the slower approach worked for them. This attitude of if they aren't super stars at 4&5 they'll be nothing leaves a lot of ruined competition horses. Thankfully there does seem to be some people that can take it slower with competition horses. When my mare does jumper schooling it's over gymnastic type work and never over 90cm's. She has the scope to be a 1.30 horse. We know that's there, we don't have to keep jumping those heights because she can. They don't get bored jumping smaller. There's lots of technical to work on too that makes them better jumpers. Jumping a single fence at 2ft over and over, yeah maybe. But they also need respect for whatever is put in front of them. You pretty much know what you have when you have a 1.10m spread in the loose chute and your mare trots up, leaves out a stride, and has the power to land 3 strides away from the fence like it's nothing. The raw power is there. Don't need to sour it by jumping big all the time. I learned this from one of America's best. Maybe it's wrong but his words sure have helped me with my mare.

Terri
Click to expand...

AMEN!! Can I ask who you trained with in the US?
 
So an ex racer running at Int BE would be a comp horse? Or it wouldn't?

Obviously it wasn't bred for that job in any way, shape or form.
 
wench said:
You could take any old nag out to competitions everyweek, but IMO, this would not make it a "competition" horse.

To me, a competition horse is one that is either competing at top level with an ambitious amateur (not necessarily winning, due to competing against pro's, but being able to do the job reasonably) OR one kept at a pro's yard, going out to competitions on a regular basis, and doing well/winning.

A similar post was in CR approx 18 months ago. I got in trouble for describing a "competition" horse as an allrounder.
Click to expand...

so would you under any circumstances class a cob or cobx under 15.2hh as a competition animal? if so what would define it for you?
 
rara007 said:
IMO a horse purely kept for competing, that wouldn't be kept if competing was no longer viable... I think the young horse classes all have mainly competition horses in, and the 4YOs arnt competing above that threshold, but still most of them will be kept and trained for the competition.
Click to expand...

so would you have classed 'julia' as a competition pony?. sorry cant remember what you called her-was it blossom?
 
that wouldn't be kept if competing was no longer viable...
Click to expand...

The ex-eventer that I posted about earlier was not a competition horse in that case as he was still owned and kept in retirement by the lady that had competed him. All the horses that he lived with were her retired competition horses (she said that they had served her well and that they deserved a happy retirement).
 
Jools- its not so much height/ breed for me, its what level they compete at & how regularly. My 14.2 looks like 15hh+, & has done low levels in all 3 affiliated, with me as a senior. But she isn't a comp horse in my eyes, as she was never going to go higher no matter who rode her. Whereas a horse doing the same level she did, with potential to go further I would class as a comp horse.
The age thing is interesting. I don't refer to above pony as a comp pony, although she once was. Occasionally as former comp pony, retired from competing pony etc. I used to know a very nice horse, who had the breeding & ability to excel at 4*. Unfortunately, it didn't have the temperament for it, just wasn't interested. It did a few 3* before becoming a pc/rc all rounder. Which is when I knew it. It was just far too chilled, wouldn't have been out of place temperament wise at a rs. The average early teen could ride it safely. During the time I knew it, it downgraded to show the owners teen the ropes at BE. It basically did ok provided it didn't need to make an effort. However it was never referred to as a comp horse. Despite the fact it did compete at 3*. And if it was in the mood, you could see why it was originally supposed to go far.
 
To me, loosely, it is a horse which is trained and kept primarily with a particular competitive discipline(s) in mind - that job is the primary purpose of the horse, and it is intended for success at it.

It is a horse which is not just kept for pleasure, and decisions regarding the training, feeding and care of that horse are made with the purpose of the horse in mind.

So for example, a horse that is kept as a showjumper, would be fed a certain diet, schooled a certain way on the flat and managed in a certain way in order to suit it best for a job as a showjumper.

It could really be any level, but more likely to be the case for a horse competing at a reasonable affiliated level, or aiming at that, as at a low level, it is unlikely that any specialist management of a horse is needed.
 
jesstickle said:
So an ex racer running at Int BE would be a comp horse? Or it wouldn't?

Obviously it wasn't bred for that job in any way, shape or form.
Click to expand...

Of course it would be - it was a competition horse when it was a racer too..

A cob could easily be a competition horse too. Either as a jumper/dressage horse or as a show horse. Many show animals are bred for the job and do a lot more than local levels... Some horses are bred and trained with the aim of competing at HOYS etc. Different competitions, but still very focused training and breeding.
 
Honey08 said:
Of course it would be - it was a competition horse when it was a racer too..
Click to expand...

I don't know! People were citing breeding as being one of the fundamental factors. I think the idea being that 'competition' horses are somehow more difficult than the average beast due to how they are bred :confused:
 
A lot of competition horses have been bred for the job though. Really the breeding and paces etc are more important when the horse is young and unproven, and perhaps aimed at young horse classes. Once its out and competing then its as good as its record. I think a lot of "competition horses" are burned out as a youngster, don't make the grade, then are sold on to us mere pleasure riders, and are a bit sharp due to all the issues they have, and thats where their reputation comes from. On the pro yards I have been on some of the horses were as laid back as can be, others weren't. I don't think you can lump them all in the same bundle.
 
I tend to use the tag 'performance' rather than competition as it covers wider things for me, such as racing and endurance, as well as the main stream affiliated things. Horses competitng at lower levels with the intention of staying there are described as riding club horses, and jolly nice many of them are too!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top