so, whats wrong with W/T tests ????

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rubysmum

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Reading some of the responses in the thread about BPs in dressage tests - i saw a number of very negative comments about W/T tests - I would be really interested to know why people are so against them.....
I'm not a [particulalry] novice rider - but I had never competed my horse at anything & did 2 W/T tests to see how she would behave/whether I would like competing - we then moved into Prelim - but the W/T tests were really useful to get us started - but as a total dressage numpty - I am happy to be educated about problems with W/T tests:)
 
I think they are great. My horse is a spooky mare and after a long time off through a tendon injury, we went to our first W & T test on 14th Aug. She did really well and although spooky, we got 2 x 3rd places. It was nice not to have to worry about canter work, partly because we havent really covered it much during her re-hab time, but also because she can perform some spectacular sideways movements at speed. Walk and Trot was much more relaxing for us both and it helped her concentration levels a lot. We are off again at the end of Sept and hopefully it will help with her confidence.
 
I'm sure there are some dressage snobs who can't possibly understand why W&T tests are good for people starting out, or who think they surely every horse can canter in an arena, so prelims are basic enough!

I think W&T tests are great. They enable you to build your skills, are great for younger / novice riders or horses, and are often a great way to get people to have a go who wouldn't ordinarily.
 
I was in two minds about them when they introduced them and they are not for me even with my young horse. However, I can definitely see why they are useful for beginners in the sport, and they have certainly encouraged more people to try dressage, as long as there are new people entering the sport that can only be a good thing.
 
im 22 & did a WT test on a friends 20-something year old horse a few months ago. i have been riding since i was 7 but hadnt done any competing the last few years & the horse was grumpy, objectionable & lazy (but extremely loveable). i liked the WT test as i didnt have to worry about maintaining a canter around the arena & could concentrate on good trot work. i enjoyed it, what's wrong with that?
 
I have not competed for a lot of years due to my mares advancing age and subsequent mild lameness. I never thought Dressage could be 'dumbed down' and prelim was basic enough. I remember all those years ago when people wanted to get youngsters etc. out for the experience they would do a prelim and if they felt ok would do the canter work and if not leave it out and hence score zero for the movement. The trouble with a test that is only walk and trot is that we are now seeing a group of people that are quite happy to do them all the time and not move on just to get a rosette and therefore denying the true novice (horses and riders) that opportunity. So IMO if you truly need that experience do the prelim and miss the bits out you can't do until you are ready. All you need to do is quickly explain to the judge - they usually understand. On the same lines I have seen County Standard horses and ponies out at very low key local show. They say they need the experience for the youngsters. If that is the case go HC!!!!
 
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I think they are a good idea and fulfill a need, whether that is because people are young, new to dressage, nervous, have a spooky horse etc. Anything that encourages more people to become interested in dressage seems fine to me.

Unfortunately, there are some people in life who get enjoyment from looking down on others, and those are usually the sorts who like to be disparaging about W&T tests.
 
I think they're fab, especially with huge cobs with lots of white on them. ;)

It's like anything: you and the horse have to start somewhere and it demonstrates a level of skill on which you may want to improve or not, depending on whether you decide you like dressage or not.
 
I have no objection to W/T tests at all. I do object to people doing them, and then going off and doing the 95cm SJ on the same day. I'm not sure if I'm just a bit dim, but to jump a nice round, surely you need to be able to canter?!
 
burge said:
The trouble with a test that is only walk and trot is that we are now seeing a group of people that are quite happy to do them all the time and not move on just to get a rosette and therefore denying the true novice (horses and riders) that opportunity.
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i dont see how this is the fault of the test? surely this is due to competitions not having a restriction on who can enter the lowest level tests? if prelim was the lowest surely these people would be doing that instead (if you are saying that they are too good for w/t & just "trophy-hunting") & there would still be no room for novices?

i dont mean this to sound argumentative, i'm just questioning!

Sally
 
I think that half the problem today is that people call preliminary tests prelim - so nobody remembers that prelim tests are for horses and riders in their PRELIMINARY stages of training (hence why they come before NOVICE level..). People also stay at prelim level for years, gaining scores in the 60s and 70s, when they were really for inexperienced horses and riders. This then leaves nothing to encourage the TRUE novice rider and horse - so walk and trot tests came in to fill the gap. In reality these tests were designed for diddies at pony club, and can even be done on the leadrein. I think they are very useful at pony club for children who need really simple tests to start off with - as they do at school in other areas (ie simple maths etc). I CAN, however, understand why people want to do walk and trot tests if they are novices and the prelims are full of "pot hunters" who should really be moving up a level.

In regards to starting a young horse off in dressage, and it not being able to canter, I would say that the horse is not yet ready to compete in dressage. With my youngsters, I start off by taking them to shows on the lorry with the older horses, and riding round the collecting ring at the end of the day, then build up to showing and equitation classes, which you can create your own show to suit the horse's ability. When they are more settled in a show environment, and more supple in the school in all paces THEN I progress to prelim tests. I don't particularly care if I get placed - I'm more bothered about seeing an improvement in myself and my horses' efforts.
 
I'm going to put my neck on the line now and say that I am one of these people that is a bit against W/T tests.
Firstly however, I would like to say that I myself do not have a problem with them; if people want to do them and there is a market for them then great.
However, the title is what is wrong with them - my answer to this is that, IMHO if you or your horse are not capable or confident of doing walk/trot/canter in an arena, then stay at home until you are, or, as somebody else said, miss the bits out that you cannot do. I have a 5yo ex racer who has always struggled with 'dressage'. When she was 4 the walk and trot was ok, canter was a disaster. I was desparate to take her to some dressage just for the experience, but, although there was a W/T test at m riding club, I waited until the canter was a little more established and went staright in at prelim. Same goes, I feel, for a young rider. If they cannot canter, they are not yet ready for dressage. When I first started competing, not so long ago, there was nothing like that, so I had a poor effort at a prelim test instead! Similarily, in a novice test, my horse can't do medium trot, so I just stay in a working trot and lose a mark or 2 with the comment 'not enough diff. shown'; or similar. It's something to work on anyway.
Having said all of that, I can see why people would like and benefit from them, and like I said before, they don't affect me so I don't worry about them.
I am far from a dressage snob - I hate dressage, it's a means to an end for me, and something for my hunting pony to do through summer!! However, perhaps, as I have never been a nervous competitor, and I only thrive in a competition atmosphere, I do not realise how worried and tense people can get at the thought of doing a dressgae test?
Please don't have a go at me; this is just my opinion, and like I said, live and let live!
 
I love them as I can't afford to have dressage or riding lessons (even my side saddle lesson is only once a month when I can afford it and in half an hour, don't get to work much on dressage!) so W/T tests are useful to see what areas we need to improve on before going up to prelim (LOL, circles, going in a straight line, going in an outline, maintaining a steady rythim, everything really!). Because I don't have an instructor, I pretty much need to figure out everything myself and some of the Prelim tests are pretty daunting like Prelim 15 and 18 (which seem to be the only ones my local riding club seem to put on at shows!!).

My only gripe at shows though is when you see people competing and winning at Prelim and Novice tests, going in the W/T as a "warm up" and not competing Hor Concours. If you are able to win easily at a Novice test, then for goodness sake, leave the W/T tests to us numpties who are still figuring out how to trot in a straight line!
 
Honey08 said:
I think that half the problem today is that people call preliminary tests prelim - so nobody remembers that prelim tests are for horses and riders in their PRELIMINARY stages of training (hence why they come before NOVICE level..). People also stay at prelim level for years, gaining scores in the 60s and 70s, when they were really for inexperienced horses and riders. This then leaves nothing to encourage the TRUE novice rider and horse - so walk and trot tests came in to fill the gap. In reality these tests were designed for diddies at pony club, and can even be done on the leadrein. I think they are very useful at pony club for children who need really simple tests to start off with - as they do at school in other areas (ie simple maths etc). I CAN, however, understand why people want to do walk and trot tests if they are novices and the prelims are full of "pot hunters" who should really be moving up a level.
I agree, there are pot hunters at every level, in every sport, however, if people went affiliated, they simply cannot pot hunt as the point system ensures that you HAVE to move on up.


In regards to starting a young horse off in dressage, and it not being able to canter, I would say that the horse is not yet ready to compete in dressage.
I heartily agree with you, and like the other poster, when I took my young horse out we did prelim with the attitude, if the canter happens it happens, if it doesn't then it doesn't, happily it did :D however, for the person new to dressage and on a young horse WT tests can be a useful introduction



don't particularly care if I get placed - I'm more bothered about seeing an improvement in myself and my horses' efforts.
I am in full agreement with this too :D
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Oh flippin heck - have to type extra words here so it will let me post :cool:
 
Trev (ex-racer) & I are doing both of our first walk-trot tests on Sunday. I have points at Novice, & competed to 1 m 15 BS, but I've never done a W-T before.

Trev CAN canter acceptably, but there's going to be a lot to look at with arena boards, flowers etc, & I would rather that he had a good look without the added excitement of canter.

Once he's done a few W-Ts at different venues, we shall move up to Prelim.
 
I agree with atouchwild to a certain extent when dealing with a young horse setlling with w/t is not giving the horse a chance to improve what it cant do yet (does that make sense, head is a bit muddled tonight!). however the horse i was riding was a grumpy old man! he was never going to improve, he is set in his ways now so i didnt really need to have the oppourtunity to improve him. as for not suitable to compete unless can w/t/c im not sure i entirely agree with this. fair enough if the reason you're not confident is that you have no/ little control & therefore could be a danger, but i just couldnt get the horse shifting in canter that well but am in perfect control in terms of is he going to gallop off. if that is the case then what is wrong with me doing a test that i can do rather than one with bits i know i cant do? having said that if there had been no w/t test i would have given prelim a go & accepted that our canter would be rubbish, but i felt happy to do the one i knew we could do.
 
atouchwild said:
IMHO if you or your horse are not capable or confident of doing walk/trot/canter in an arena then stay at home until you are
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The thing is, many of the people doing W&T tests ARE confident and capable of doing canter in an arena AT HOME, but as we all know horses often behave very differently in a new environment, which is why W&T tests can be useful.

I do agree, however, that organisers should ensure that effective restrictions are put in place so that W&T tests cannot be used as 'warm-ups' or by pot-hunters.
 
sidesaddlegirl said:
My only gripe at shows though is when you see people competing and winning at Prelim and Novice tests, going in the W/T as a "warm up" and not competing Hor Concours. If you are able to win easily at a Novice test, then for goodness sake, leave the W/T tests to us numpties who are still figuring out how to trot in a straight line!
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That is completely the fault of the organiser, there should be a restriction on the class, how someone winning at Novice/Prelim could have the bald faced cheek to go into a WT without going HC is beyond me - what exactly have they achieved. As a judge, if I see someone who is obviously way above the level they are competing at, I will often remark on their sheet 'Perhaps it is time to move up a level', we cannot penalise them so this is often the only way to make feelings known.

And as an aside, who on earth ARE these people, no one ever owns up, they remind me of the rubber neckers on motorways, we all hate them but no one knows who they are either!
 
i completely agree with those who are unhappy with competitors who refuse to move up the levels - on my 2nd W/T test we scored 65% - I moved up to Prelim & saw my scores fall [obviously doh] - when [ as opposed to if] our prelim scores are more securely in the low 60s - I will start having a go at Novice & again I will expect our scores to fall again - I could stay in the comfort zone of Prelim & maybe [ through repetition alone] claw my scores into the high 60s - howver I prefer to move up a bit - HOWEVER without the W/T options I would never ever had had a go at dressage, so for me they were a fantastic introduction & I am very grateful for them:)
 
For TRUE novice horse and rider combinations, Walk Trot tests are brilliant. They allow the pair to see what a competition is like, particularly for young horses/riders who may not be established enough to canter yet, they are able to get constructive criticism as to how their training is going and what they can improve on and a score and feedback to build on next time. What isn't to like about them? I've never personally done one but my 7 y/o cousin does them regularly with her Shetland x and I've called for her on several occasions. They are a brilliant idea for newcomers to Dressage.

What my bugbear is regarding Walk Trot tests is there always seems to be the rosette collector with a horse that is probably more than capable of doing Prelim tests (And doing well in them!), continuously doing something that is too basic and taking the spotlight away from the genuine novice pairs that don't stand a hope in hell whilst they are in the same class! I think once you've won a Walk Trot test that should be it. Establishing the horse/riders canter should be well on its way if its out doing Walk Trot dressage and winning or at least placing anyway.
 
I think a lot of people forget that these tests were introduced for diddy kids who are not confident cantering or can't.

However, I think these tests are being abused, one example is when I was teaching at junior camp at the ode on the last day one girl (not in my group) apparently could not canter very well so had to do the w/t this seemed fair enough until I saw her and her pony get a very fast double clear over the xc and sj.

Sometimes I feel bad doing prelim on my horse but as I only do dressage once in a blue moon I really don't feel he is ready for novice. If I planned to do dressage once a fortnight or something than I would definatly do novice.
 
I think they are good for people not used to competing and just starting out. My friend has started doing W/T as has never competed before, she can canter at home, but not doing this in the test took the pressure off. They should only be a transition though and people should move on in my opinion as soon as they have done OK.
 
I like the w&t tests - I just wish there were more of them than just A and B as some people don't want to go faster than trot but would like to do more moves than they currently use. However, I have noticed a few venues in my area have made up their own tests or run freestyle w&ts which are fun for beginners or nervous riders.

I was put off doing prelims orginally because my riding wasn't perfect and I thought the horsey world was full of bitches ready to...well bitch. On here often proves that time and again. It's alright saying just miss the canter out or do that bit badly but I thought there would be people sat in the stands ready to comment and laugh. However, I now don't care what people say - b word to them is my new saying - and I have started doing prelims, badly ;) I don't think people should stay at home until they're perfect, they'd never get out anywhere. Let them do what they feel comfy with and if the judge thinks they're ready for the next step into prelims, or whatever, they could always write it on the sheet. I don't go for the rosettes....I look straight for the percentages and the witty comments, much more fun! :)
 
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I was TOTALLY against walk and trot tests until recently when I bought my new ex-racer. I wanted to get her out and about asap, so that she could see things. So a week after I bought her, I took her to a walk and trot dressage. It was great. She got to work in an indoor arena with white boards, worked in outside with lots of other horses and just got the experience of going somewhere that wasn't a racecourse. I couldn't have cantered her at that point as I am pretty sure we would have exited the arena.
Next time out with her, I did the prelim test, but I spoke to the judge beforehand and just said that I wasn't sure whether I would do the canter parts, and would see how she was feeling in the parts of the test beforehand. Judge was fine about it and as it was, we did the canter (albeit rather rushed!).
So I think there is a place for walk and trot tests, and they are for novice horses or novice riders.
I think someone mentioned earlier about people staying at prelim even when they are scoring percentages in the 60s and 70s. I stay in prelim with my old horse basically because he is 20 years old, has had a broken leg, has both front leg tendons damaged, and has arthritis. He can't lengthen or collect and I would not expect him to. However he is perfectly happy doing prelim and it helps to keep him as supple as he can be. Anyone any objection to that?
 
I think walk /trot tests are great, my two daughters have both started doing dressage at a tender age one on the lead rein at a fun show, and its got them both into the arena. Pot hunters are always a problem at any discipline. If the dressage snobs don't like it they don't need to enter. It doesn't affect them. Does the horse care-no? Great way to introduce a younster to competing without pressure.
 
I've done 2 Walk and Trot tests and loved both, and found them really useful. The first was on Mouse, as a bit of fun, but he actually did pretty well. It was nice to have some feedback on his flatwork without having to stress him into canter (he found it really difficult unless on an open stretch of land)

The second was on Jazz, recently, as Jazz freaks out in the school and the few times I have cantered in there he has practically bolted with me (as he was previously GALLOPED (and I mean GALLOPED) around the school so he panics in there. I don't therefore have much chance to school him in canter but I can school in walk and trot on hacks, so a Walk and Trot test is brilliant for him. Again, I got some feedback on his progress without having to stress him about canter!
 
I do them as our canter work is still very much WIP and it is nice to come out of a test thinking that went well and :D rather than feeling very disheartened :( However Pidge is very capable of jumping clear round a SJ course at 3' so should that prevent us doing a walk and trot test? We can canter fine for a SJ round but then its not always a soft round bouncy canter that you would want for a dressage test, sometimes it is lovely and sometimes its quick and head up and inside out as he gets keen, but we still jump fine.
I know in the dressage its me getting tense which passes on to him, but even when relaxed schooling our canter still needs work.
I think IMO that people who say if you can't canter you shouldn't even be doing a walk and trot test are wrong. Surely we are supposed to be encouraging dressage? If someone comes out of a walk and trot test really pleased with how it went surely that is a good thing? I speak from experience as I have come out of prelim tests so disheartened I've said "never again" because of our canter. And me I love dressage.
So please before being so disparaging of those that actually want to do walk and trot tests please stop and think that there may well be a damn good reason for them doing it, and stop looking down your noses at us.
Sorry rant over!
 
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