so, whats wrong with W/T tests ????

[maxapple]

I think that half the problem today is that people call preliminary tests prelim - so nobody remembers that prelim tests are for horses and riders in their PRELIMINARY stages of training (hence why they come before NOVICE level..). People also stay at prelim level for years, gaining scores in the 60s and 70s, when they were really for inexperienced horses and riders. This then leaves nothing to encourage the TRUE novice rider and horse - so walk and trot tests came in to fill the gap. In reality these tests were designed for diddies at pony club, and can even be done on the leadrein. I think they are very useful at pony club for children who need really simple tests to start off with - as they do at school in other areas (ie simple maths etc). I CAN, however, understand why people want to do walk and trot tests if they are novices and the prelims are full of "pot hunters" who should really be moving up a level.

I think you have totally hit the nail on the head here!

I have been doing some dressage writing at a local big competition centre - and there are people doing the prelims that should be doing novice at least. Over half of those who enter the W&T have horses working in a lovely outline the whole way round, and ride a pretty perfect test. The judges are actually quite harsh markers - I assume because the standard is so high, so if you were a novice, this would put you off ever going back!

 

[scribble]

I agree that they are good, i took my baby to one last Sunday she has just been back in May and it ws her first competition, her caanter work is not jup to prelim and she has never been in an arena or seen dressage boards etc. However there were 20 in the class (we wree about 10th) and most were pot hunters. about 6 of us were what i would say should be in that class. the rest were walk, trot and cantering round outside in nr perfect outlines on the bit etc etc. I think they should move up to prelim once they have done what they need to. I know we will as we need to progress and it is not fair on others just starting. Several also seemed to do this at local shows so was not a one off. So we were a 3yr old horse up against 8, 9, and 10yr olds. We onyl really went for a walk and trot round the arena.

 

[Ebbw]

I do them as our canter work is still very much WIP and it is nice to come out of a test thinking that went well and rather than feeling very disheartened

These are my feelings too.

I am new to competitive dressage (even competition in general). In addition my horse is young and we don't have good facilities at home to practice (no schooling area, fields sometimes viable) so I'm also pretty new to any proper schooling. Neither do I have friends who compete in dressage. So when I decided to have a go I was relieved to have the opportunity to do a W/T test. It was a lot more enjoyable to know that I could achieve what was in the test relatively easily, instead of attempting a test that would leave me looking like a character from Thelwell's army (not a good look for an adult!).

I'm interested to learn that it is not unusual for people to ride prelims and intentionally miss out the canter completely. That's certainly encouraged me to have a go.

Excuse my ignorance, but can you enter any dressage test HC? Does it mean you will get a mark but not be in the ribbons?

 

[SirenaXVI]

Go on - have a go at prelim, if you are worried about the canter - have a quick word with the judge beforehand, we don't bite your know! Most of us have been in the same position and do understand what its like , we do become a little perplexed if you don't tell us your intentions though!

Yes, if you go HC, you get your sheet and your mark but you don't get placed or a rossette, it's a good system but many who should be HC are so hungry for a ribbon that they enter in the normal fashion, there is diddly squat that the judge can do, we have to mark what we see, regardless, however, most venues put restrictions on WT tests, one here locally puts the proviso that anyone entering the WT should never have been placed 1st in a prelim and once you have won a WT, you must then move upwards. This works and it certainly encourages people to move on up the levels and not stay stagnating at the bottom rung.

 

[ossy]

I was always in too minds about the w/t test tbh. I may be old fashioned but I would generally class the prelims as a basic starting point and by the whole ethos of what dressage is, I would expect a certain level of training/ability from those wanting to compete within this disapline and generally at a starting stage I would have thought they could string a basic prelim test together. I have a 5yr old canter not fab but still starrted our dressage life out at prelim, got in the high 50s and I was pleased with that as much as I would have been please with a score in the high 60s /low 70s for a w/t test.

I know times are changing and I have read some of the posts supporting these tests and can see how they do have an important role for some starting out in gaining confidence and experience.

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

I hope this post doesn't put people who want to do a WT test off giving it a go.

Some of the comments on here really do smack of the pomposity of the equine world.

What does it really matter is someone wants to do a WT test? Some people are scared stupid of cantering in an open space or outside their comfort zone, but are okay walking and trotting. Why can't they go somewhere for a nice trip out and do their WT test, which doesn't impact on anyone else, and go home happy to have achieved something? It may well give them the impetus to aim higher (and yes, it's 'higher' to them), it might not, it doesn't matter, it's no skin off anyone elses nose is it.

The WT test allows someone, no matter what age - many older people are getting into riding now, which is hopefully good for the 'sport' (now that could be a whole new post lol) - to ride a test, hitting transitions, etc. as needed. To some this is a whole new world of stress and demands, so let them do it at their level and leave them alone.

 

[Rouletterose]

I hope this post doesn't put people who want to do a WT test off giving it a go.

Some of the comments on here really do smack of the pomposity of the equine world.

What does it really matter is someone wants to do a WT test? Some people are scared stupid of cantering in an open space or outside their comfort zone, but are okay walking and trotting. Why can't they go somewhere for a nice trip out and do their WT test, which doesn't impact on anyone else, and go home happy to have achieved something? It may well give them the impetus to aim higher (and yes, it's 'higher' to them), it might not, it doesn't matter, it's no skin off anyone elses nose is it.

The WT test allows someone, no matter what age - many older people are getting into riding now, which is hopefully good for the 'sport' (now that could be a whole new post lol) - to ride a test, hitting transitions, etc. as needed. To some this is a whole new world of stress and demands, so let them do it at their level and leave them alone.

Couldn't agree more WT tests are fine if people want to do them, I'd rather see a novice rider and horse doing a WT test smiling and confident than possibly leaving the arena etc in canter because they have no control at canter yet.

 

[Aniseed]

I think w & t tests are a brilliant idea. It has taken a long time for me to establish my horses canter, I am not an experienced rider and she has really struggled to balance herself but we are getting there.

If I had to go straight in a prelim level I don't think I would have bothered doing dressage. Our first few w & t tests were awful with bronking sessions in the middle and I was a nervous wreck. However last summer I somehow managed to win a competition without about 75% and the judge wrote on the bottom this horse is now ready for prelim, so I have moved up a level. I'm doing my second ever prelim tomorrow actually!

 

[Kenzo]

I stuck my young man in W&T test last month, was his first time out this year.

Because he can easily get wound up, tense etc and partial to the odd buck, I wanted keep things simple, keep him calm as well as keeping things enjoyable, as I had no idea how he'd re-act, then tried him in P12....where he did get more wound up, I know my horse, how he ticks and what’s best for him and safer for me.

Nothing to do with pot hunting, or not being able to canter, or scared to do other tests, if the class is there and it's useful to help ease your horse into the busy show environment at slower pace, then I thinks that's a good thing.

If people are going to be that critical about these things, then no wonder people don't enter straight into the prelim classes, because then you'd going to get another set of people passing comments about the horse not behaving or not being as established in canter etc, or some poor buggar injuring themselves.

But then some people saying said well it doesn't matter about an unbalanced canter you should still do a prelim test and just loose marks instead...fine but then there is others saying well shouldn't bring a horse out if it's not established in all three paces, stop at home and carrying on schooling your horse etc....fine but then how do you get a young horse used to a competition environment? no good having perfectly schooled horse sat at home if you can't take the thing anywhere.

So your dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t.

 

[SirenaXVI]

I don't see anyone that has condemned people for doing WT tests on this thread tbh so am a little confused why it would put people off

 

[mystiandsunny]

People also stay at prelim level for years, gaining scores in the 60s and 70s, when they were really for inexperienced horses and riders. This then leaves nothing to encourage the TRUE novice rider and horse

SO true! I went to local dressage recently with one of my youngsters, and I did not see another youngster there - I saw lots of older, mature horses only, with people who looked like they did prelim for a career. How can a 4yo compete fairly against an entire class full of mature horses, who've specialised in prelim tests?

 

[MrsMozartletoe]

I don't see anyone that has condemned people for doing WT tests on this thread tbh so am a little confused why it would put people off

Not your post, the three or four posts where WT tests are disparaged. Riders, especially new, novice, nervous, etc. etc., can often feel somewhat intimidated by the equine world and the folk within it. A large number feel they aren't good enough, etc. etc. etc., and don't want to harm their horse or make a fool of themselves, so are heavily influenced by those that poo-poo the, usually, lower levels.

Just my thoughts on it. Hopefully I am completely wrong in my thinking and no body will be put off and everyone who is considering a WT test will go and have fun

My aim had been to take the Dizz, as a way of introducing her to competition without blowing her mind; as it is D1 took her to camp and they did P10 I believe and she was fine .

 

[SirenaXVI]

SO true! I went to local dressage recently with one of my youngsters, and I did not see another youngster there - I saw lots of older, mature horses only, with people who looked like they did prelim for a career. How can a 4yo compete fairly against an entire class full of mature horses, who've specialised in prelim tests?

I can entirely see your point and it is a shame, the only answer is for the venues/clubs to be very strict about who enters the WT, imho it is very unfair for someone doing well at prelim to even be allowed to enter them, this is not the fault of the test but the fault of whomever is organising the competition.

I seem to be judging quite a few of these tests at the moment and I very rarely see someone who I feel should not be doing it, if I do, then I comment on their sheet AND have a word with the organisers re restricting the class. I am sure other judges would do the same.

Sometimes, someone who is well within the restrictions will enter the class, and, because, perhaps like Kenzo, they have put in hard work at home, it appears they should not be in it, this person tends to move up the levels fairly quickly, as, they want to improve, why on earth should this person NOT be allowed to enter?

 

[Natch]

I seem to be judging quite a few of these tests at the moment and I very rarely see someone who I feel should not be doing it, if I do, then I comment on their sheet AND have a word with the organisers re restricting the class. I am sure other judges would do the same.

This. I think weeding out those who stay at the same level for the rosettes is a job for the judges and event organisers - IIRC the last place I did dressage at had a policy of if you've won or come second at a level twice, you have to move up or go HC. Another place I used to compete at had a restricted and unrestricted class in each test.

I loved doing the Walk/trot tests with Frankie when we first started out, because we WERE competing with others who were similar in ability: most of us were riding green horses, or horses coming back into work following injury and there were a few who were novice riders on good horses (never minded them as they generally didn't tend to get in the ribbons!). It was nice to be able to concentrate on the stuff we could actually do, since at that stage we were either motorbiking the corners or just not getting the right lead (he did so insist that left lead was the best lead for both reins ) We only did I think a total of 3 walk/trot tests, and I think in the second two we did a prelim on the same day too (with lots of "lovely test, shame about the canter" comments )

The worst bad sport I saw at a competition was a local very well known showjumper competing at walk/trot on his gorgeous paced horse. The horse had obviously been there seen it, done it and had a lovely canter - which he showed to great extent when warming up. He had entered the class (but also the prelim) because he had never done dressage before.

Needless to say he came first, and one of the mums whose kids were also competing in the class summed it up for me. She went over to him and said "Thanks mate, because of you my daughter has just been knocked out of the rosettes. It would have meant the world to her to have won a 6th place."

Thing was, he knew fine well that lots of the kids that he taught would be competing in the same class. Wouldn't you have the naus not to enter, or at the very least enter it HC?

 

[SirenaXVI]

Naturally, sadly there is not a lot that can be done by the organisers about this kind of competitor, they, unfortunately, fall within the regulations and it is up to their own conscience as to how they enter

I remember when S was a baby horse and we were still in Restricted Prelim, one VERY experienced rider, who was the rider for a very well known equestrian centre that specialised in dressage was also in the restricted section, competing against one horse owners and those new to affiliated dressage on a very big moving horse, specifically bred for dressage. Well surprise surprise he consistently got scores in the top 70% and won the National Prelim Championship, taking away the chance from someone who genuinely deserved that title. The reason he could do it? He had no BD points as his competitive career (successful btw) had been eventing and showjumping! The centre made a huge deal about his winning this title but in mine and many others opinion, they were pot hunting on an olympic level!

 

[lilythepink]

Ummm I am doing my 1st ever dressage test next week on my just turned 5 y/o who has never done dressage before either, we are doing a w/t test as I think it is perfect for us. However I have been riding since I was a kid and my horse has hunted 2 seasons in Ireland, we can canter, we have xc schooled to novice level, but our school work is quite poor and he is still unbalanced cantering a 20m circle on the left rein so surely w/t test is the perfect start point for us?

 

[cobface]

I think they are fab for young/green horses or people who are new to it. However what i don't agree with is people who get consistent high marks in w&t and keep at them all the time aswell as doing well in prelims? don't see the point TBH.............
I am doing a w&t next weekend on my mare, we have been placed 3rd a few times we have done the test but her canter is still very unbalanced and she only started schooling this year.
Once we get over 63% in w&t then we will move onto to prelim

 

[Natch]

Sirena, yes I suppose there will always be pot hunters who can work the system.

I guess that, although being placed is nice, and competing against those who shouldn't be in the class is terribly frustrating, one can take some solice in the fact that you are ultimately working to improve your personal score.

Being a soft bat, I cried when Frank got 70% in an early prelim test. Getting a 3rd or 4th rosette was great, but for me the satisfaction was in a score which I considered to be really good for us.

 

[Jojo_Pea4]

I done a walk and trot test last winter after I had a bad fall and broke my leg, I thought canter might be a bit to much for my 1st time out and as my horse had the summer off knew he would be spooky. I didnt feel the need to go again but at least I had the option.

 

[482739]

Ive had my new horse for about 6 weeks now, and i am doing a w/t test in 3 weeks. She can jump the moon & back, 95cm showjumping round no problem - this is all she has ever done!.

However, schooling/dressage canter, is so different, she can no go straight on the left rein, panics & rushes. Hence i am doing a W/T as its her first test & mine on this horse. I may possibly get laughed at, cause of my 16hh TB doing giraffe impressions, but its just about the experience for you & to stay relaxed throughout,

 

[Renvers]

I took my very green horse into a local WT test last year (we don't get out to compete much).

We came 6th (although with some nice scores like 8's for halts), everyone placed above me then went on to be placed in the Prelim afterwards. Does that make me 1st in the genuine WT'ers that time out?

 

[Nathan-And-Hayke]

I don't think there is a problem with the test per say, more the way is is regarded and regulated.
It seems to be a useful tool for young horses and novice riders, or new combinations/ horses coming back to work after long breaks. This I see no problem with, it helps combinations to gain confidence, which can only be beneficial to the sport in the long run.
However, it isn't regulated properly. We don't have an equivalent anywhere near me, but I have heard of incidents in which combinations winning at much higher levels will use the w/t test as a 'warm up', meaning the riders it should be for cannot succeed.
I feel this could be solved with the scheme many dutch and European clubs, in which once a combination gets a certain number of points, they have to move up, and can't do low level tests anymore?

 

[Kenzo]

Being a soft bat, I cried when Frank got 70% in an early prelim test. Getting a 3rd or 4th rosette was great, but for me the satisfaction was in a score which I considered to be really good for us.

lol I nearly cried because I didn't get thrown off!

So I think it demonstrates in this thread why W&T tests are important to people in alot of differnt ways.

Certainly don't think it's fair that people continue to use them though, surely you'd get bord of doing the same old test over and over again on the same horse.

 

[atouchwild]

Not your post, the three or four posts where WT tests are disparaged. Riders, especially new, novice, nervous, etc. etc., can often feel somewhat intimidated by the equine world and the folk within it. A large number feel they aren't good enough, etc. etc. etc., and don't want to harm their horse or make a fool of themselves, so are heavily influenced by those that poo-poo the, usually, lower levels.

Just my thoughts on it. Hopefully I am completely wrong in my thinking and no body will be put off and everyone who is considering a WT test will go and have fun

My aim had been to take the Dizz, as a way of introducing her to competition without blowing her mind; as it is D1 took her to camp and they did P10 I believe and she was fine .

I don't think there is one post on here that is having a go at anybody who does w/t tests actually.I was one of the ones that posted about my negative opinion of them - but all I said was that they weren't for me, and I would always go straight in at prelim - I did say that as it doesnt affect me I don't worry about people doing them and if they are helping people get out and about then that's great. I don't look down my nose at anybody, everybody has to start somewhere I accept that, I just personally feel that a prelim is quite simple enough. Im quite sure that nobody will be put off, as nobody has said anything derogatory about anybody who does do w/t tests. I thought the title was encouraging a discussion and I believe there are some very interesting and fair points on here from both sides of the argument.

 

[SirenaXVI]

I don't think there is one post on here that is having a go at anybody who does w/t tests actually.I was one of the ones that posted about my negative opinion of them - but all I said was that they weren't for me, and I would always go straight in at prelim - I did say that as it doesnt affect me I don't worry about people doing them and if they are helping people get out and about then that's great. I don't look down my nose at anybody, everybody has to start somewhere I accept that, I just personally feel that a prelim is quite simple enough. Im quite sure that nobody will be put off, as nobody has said anything derogatory about anybody who does do w/t tests. I thought the title was encouraging a discussion and I believe there are some very interesting and fair points on here from both sides of the argument.

Completely agree atouchwild, there is nothing posted on this thread that I can see would put people off

 

[martlin]

This might be slightly off topic, but bear with me...
I agree that riders capable of more should enter lower classes HC, but I don't think I will ever attempt to do it again in my life.
I have competed limited dressage in my home country, mainly on my young future showjumpers for the purpose of showing them the atmosphere of a big show without complicating things with jumps. I have competed up to C class (no idea what it is in English system, it is one with single flying changes, some half pass and bits and bobs), I haven't sat in a dressage saddle for over 10 years and have no dressage competition record in this country whatsoever.
I have been schooling a lovely little horse for a client, said horse suffered from a bit of a stage fright, so one Saturday morning I decided to take it to a dressage at a local centre and enter a prelim test HC. Upon arrival I have attempted to do it, only to be accused of being an arrogant arse Turns out it was very inappropriate of me to think I am in with a chance of winning the class and taking away a rosette from somebody for whom it would truly be an achievement
It was THE most embarrassing moment in my life I think and I put the horse straight back on the trailer and took it home I am never going to attempt dressage again.

 

[SirenaXVI]

This might be slightly off topic, but bear with me...
I agree that riders capable of more should enter lower classes HC, but I don't think I will ever attempt to do it again in my life.
I have competed limited dressage in my home country, mainly on my young future showjumpers for the purpose of showing them the atmosphere of a big show without complicating things with jumps. I have competed up to C class (no idea what it is in English system, it is one with single flying changes, some half pass and bits and bobs), I haven't sat in a dressage saddle for over 10 years and have no dressage competition record in this country whatsoever.
I have been schooling a lovely little horse for a client, said horse suffered from a bit of a stage fright, so one Saturday morning I decided to take it to a dressage at a local centre and enter a prelim test HC. Upon arrival I have attempted to do it, only to be accused of being an arrogant arse Turns out it was very inappropriate of me to think I am in with a chance of winning the class and taking away a rosette from somebody for whom it would truly be an achievement
It was THE most embarrassing moment in my life I think and I put the horse straight back on the trailer and took it home I am never going to attempt dressage again.

Goodness that is totally unacceptable! Shame as it has obviously put you off - fwiw I think you did just the right thing, plus sometimes people go HC for other reasons, it may be something as simple as they do not want their scores put on the board, so very stupid and uninformed of the person who accused you.

Perhaps there was a little jealousy going on!

 

[martlin]

Goodness that is totally unacceptable! Shame as it has obviously put you off - fwiw I think you did just the right thing, plus sometimes people go HC for other reasons, it may be something as simple as they do not want their scores put on the board, so very stupid and uninformed of the person who accused you.

Perhaps there was a little jealousy going on!

You see, it was nearly 5 years ago now and I still remember it very clearly
The truth is, I have no idea if I was going to be placed or not, it's irrelevant to me, I have no interest in dressage as a competition, but if I just had entered normally and it would somehow become apparent that the little horse is much further schooled and stuck out like a sore thumb in the class, I would have been lynched