So -who advocates pain and / or beating to get a horse how you want him or her????

[cptrayes]

Meeeeee!
I smack mine if they need it.
Apparently, though, I'm just 'lucky' that they're all well behaved.
I think it's a deal better to smack a horse when it needs it, than to allow it to walk all over you, brand it as a 'project horse' and sell it on as someone else's problem.
I've seen this happen so many times...and have 'cured' a few 'problem/dangerous' horses with a quick smack and a reinforcement of the rules.
In the current market, the only future for a badly behaved, bratty horse is as meat.
S

I'm with Shils on this one!

 

[joeanne]

Meeeeee!
I smack mine if they need it.
Apparently, though, I'm just 'lucky' that they're all well behaved.
I think it's a deal better to smack a horse when it needs it, than to allow it to walk all over you, brand it as a 'project horse' and sell it on as someone else's problem.
I've seen this happen so many times...and have 'cured' a few 'problem/dangerous' horses with a quick smack and a reinforcement of the rules.
In the current market, the only future for a badly behaved, bratty horse is as meat.
S

A flipping men!
That for me is far more cruel.....to allow a pony to end up in a tin of chappie, because the owner was not up to the job of giving out a bit of discipline or setting out boundaries!

 

[Groom42]

Several years ago, I was helping a friend load her horse for a vet visit. The horse was an inconsistant loader. Neither of us were numpties, or inexperienced, but on this particular day the horse was having none of it. We tried the "nicey nicey", patience, food, planting feet on the ramp, cursing, lunge lines, lunge whips, linked arms, the lot. We postponed the visit until the following day, having spent literally hours trying to load the feckin' thing. Next day was like Groundhog Day, and we ended up ringing the vet and admitting defeat. This proper, old fashioned, vet said he was not far away, and would come by to help. We explained everything we'd tried over two days, and he nodded sagely. My friend was told "Take hold, walk up the ramp, and whatever happens, don't stop, and don't look backwards" She did as she was asked, and as the mare got to the bottom of the ramp, the vet cracked her across the backside with the hunting whip he'd taken out of his poacher's pocket! The horse shot up the ramp, stood quietly, and looked at us with a look of pure satisfaction, I'm sure at having made us look complete idiots! We didn't know whether to laugh or cry at the utter humiliation. The vet got into his car, and said he'd see us in a bit at the surgery. The horse never again caused a problem loading - she'd had her fun, you see.

Not violence, not a beating, thoroughly justified. We were far more traumatised than the horse - I still haven't forgiven it - Oh, the shame

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

love this...exactly how i feel....when they need telling ok....but no violence and proof comes when horses are in 6 acre field and come running when they see you....i love that feeling !

Sorry to burst your happy bubble but they are probably after the sweeties in your pocket! They only love you for the food

 

[Muchadoaboutnothing]

HA HA HA HA

no, that would be those gobbing off and receiving replies they cant handle so shout "i'm being bullied"

this place is getting like a nanny state kindtergarden every day..if little girls cant take, they shouldnt throw at adults..simples

Thought you were all for people who said it as they see it Dearie? Expressing a point of view is not 'gobbing off'

You don't seem to be able to handel the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you. They all seem to be turned into fluffy bunnies, as if I care!

Rather be a fluffy than someone who thinks it is ok for two young girls to show the zap of a cattle prod them film themselves using it to load a horse.

You have been banned in the past and no doubt you will be banned again under this username.

Laters Dear.

 

[cptrayes]

love this...exactly how i feel....when they need telling ok....but no violence and proof comes when horses are in 6 acre field and come running when they see you....i love that feeling !

I have four horses and I have used what you would call "violence" against them all when I felt it was right. My four horses also come running when they see me, and not for food, and yes it's a great feeling

The occasional, merited, use of "violence" on a horse does not stop it loving you and I am utterly sick of the constant suggestion by people who choose never to hit a horse that it does. In fact, like children, there are many horses who love their owners MORE for having clearer boundaries.

Your horses come running. How lovely for you, but it says absolutely b*88*r all about whether you hit them, when it is justified, or not.

 

[Shilasdair]

I'm with Shils on this one!

What?! I feel faint.
S

 

[penhwnllys_stardust]

I hook up the electric fence to my horses bath so he can't drink too much, wouldn't want him catching laminitus would I?

 

[Cassiethecob]

Horses DO have a choice.

I give Dorey a choice every time I ride, do as I ask and the pressure on the bit or off my leg is released. When I bring her in, let me catch you and you can have your dinner. If Dorey choses point blank to not do something, what can I do against an animal almost 10 times my weight?

If you choose to use an electric prod, that is fine, but always best to to try it out on yourself first, so you KNOW what you are inflicting. That is why the Chief cop of the county police that first used tazors had himself tazored. (sp)

 

[cptrayes]

What?! I feel faint.
S

Yeah, sorry Shils, can I send you over a glass of water? Or something a bit stronger

 

[Shilasdair]

You're not the real cptrayes - you have hacked her account!

On a serious note, when disciplining horses, clarity and consistency are key. You must make your rules simple, clear and praise lavishly when they are good, only resorting to smacking when the horse really has overstepped a clear boundary.
I can walk up to any of mine in the field, while carrying a whip - it wouldn't occur to any of them to move away or to be worried.
It's important though, as a comparatively small, weak human, that you make sure your horses are respectful in order to keep yourself and future handlers safe.
S

 

[MrsMozart]

You're not the real cptrayes - you have hacked her account!

On a serious note, when disciplining horses, clarity and consistency are key. You must make your rules simple, clear and praise lavishly when they are good, only resorting to smacking when the horse really has overstepped a clear boundary.
I can walk up to any of mine in the field, while carrying a whip - it wouldn't occur to any of them to move away or to be worried.
It's important though, as a comparatively small, weak human, that you make sure your horses are respectful in order to keep yourself and future handlers safe.
S

Wise words S.

 

[PapaFrita]

Just asking - as a novice????
It seems electric shocks, etc are all ok by some - if you dont do this you are percieved as a bunny hugger?????
Im so confused

OK by whom? Can you give some specific examples please?

 

[Shilasdair]

OK by whom? Can you give some specific examples please?

Oh, do keep up, Pommes Frites - read the RSPCA thread.
S

 

[Dolcé]

I don't recall anyone on this or the other thread saying that they used a cattle prod on their horses, what was said by many was that they would prefer to see that (although the timing wasn't good in the vid) than seeing a horse battered for not loading. Having dealt with a seriously difficult loader without resorting to a cattle prod, spending over an hour trying to get him on a trailer, watching him go through all the actions the horse in the video went through, finally blindfolding him and physically dragging him up the ramp, I know who had the most stress. He reared just the same and nearly went over backwards because we wouldn't let him run backwards, he wasn't hit once to try and get him up the ramp but still threw himself around. If I had thought at the time that I could have him loaded in a couple of minutes with a cattle prod rather than an hour of total stress for all concerned I may have been tempted!!
I have since learned that he will load with a bucket of feed, no partition, his son and travelling loose so hopefully will never have to deal with that again. At the time I had to get him loaded there and then.
Just for the record I think that you would find that BB doesn't resort to violence, she has the extensive skills and experience needed to deal with the very varied types of ponies she works with.

 

[cptrayes]

You're not the real cptrayes - you have hacked her account!

On a serious note, when disciplining horses, clarity and consistency are key. You must make your rules simple, clear and praise lavishly when they are good, only resorting to smacking when the horse really has overstepped a clear boundary.
I can walk up to any of mine in the field, while carrying a whip - it wouldn't occur to any of them to move away or to be worried.
It's important though, as a comparatively small, weak human, that you make sure your horses are respectful in order to keep yourself and future handlers safe.
S

Shils you have written some absolute rubbish here!

It IS me.

The rest was pretty spot on, by the way

 

[Serenity087]

Actually, no one is saying they would use cattle prods. I think the origional point was using one is hardly an RSPCA issue...

 

[Dolcé]

If you choose to use an electric prod, that is fine, but always best to to try it out on yourself first, so you KNOW what you are inflicting. That is why the Chief cop of the county police that first used tazors had himself tazored. (sp)

LOL, I test my 10000v fence on myself regularly - I now fully understand why the stallions stay where they are put!!

 

[Shilasdair]

Shils you have written some absolute rubbish here!

It IS me.

The rest was pretty spot on, by the way

Shils narrows eyes

No self respecting hacker would say anything except 'it IS me'...
So...how do you feel about horseshoes?
S

 

[Shilasdair]

Actually, no one is saying they would use cattle prods. I think the origional point was using one is hardly an RSPCA issue...

I would use cattle prods. Maybe not on my horses, but I can see lots of work related uses...to keep my colleagues alert and encourage enthusiastic team working.
S

 

[cptrayes]

Shils narrows eyes

No self respecting hacker would say anything except 'it IS me'...
So...how do you feel about horseshoes?
S

Root of all evil of course! I'd rather use an electric cattle prod to make my horse go barefoot up a flint track than have shoes on it!

Believe me now ?

 

[Shilasdair]

Root of all evil of course! I'd rather use an electric cattle prod to make my horse go barefoot up a flint track than have shoes on it!

Believe me now ?

Two of my horses are 'barefoot', or as normal people call it, 'unshod'.
S

 

[cptrayes]

Two of my horses are 'barefoot', or as normal people call it, 'unshod'.
S

Will you be walking around your house tomorrow morning before you put your socks on "unshod"? Or barefoot? Let's talk on another forum about why your other horses have shoes on, we don't want to hijack this one and I want to go to bed. Ooh, and I need to nip outside and beat my shetland senseless first. Nighty night!

 

[amandap]

I see the term bunny hugger has become soley a derogatory term for anyone who does something stupid. I thought it was someone who was 'soft', not soft in the head. I've just admitted to being one on another thread. That fits then.

 

[jeeve]

absolutely all for electric fencing with a mighty strong zap, otherwise my ISH would just squash every fence in the paddock and climb through, (he actually leans on any wire fence, (there was one at last agistment place), until it was at an angle and then stepped through, on the occasion he gets caught, he does not panic, but now he does not have that option.

I think that a good respect for fences prevents injuries, that are much crueller than a zap.

 

[jeeve]

I would use cattle prods. Maybe not on my horses, but I can see lots of work related uses...to keep my colleagues alert and encourage enthusiastic team working.
S

What an excellent idea... put my order in 1st thing Monday

 

[Miss L Toe]

In terms of beating, I smack Dorey with a stick when she stops respecting my space.

I figure I'm a 90kg human being versus a 600kg horse who uses bites and kicks to communicate with other horses (and me...). I'm pretty sure I can justify a stick...

The trouble is that it does not appear to be working if you have to keep doing it!
I have handled over 1000 horses [I am very very old] and only one needed a big stick for self defence, she had been spoiled by her owner breeder, it took about a week for anyone to get in to her stable, and we had to compromise on grooming her, letting her stand with her head out of the stable.
I only ever actually hit her once, and that was when she came at me in the field , full tilt and with teeth bared, fortunately, I had come prepared, and bopped her on the nose with the twitch stick, I also did a matador swerve just in case she didnt stop!
She was a wonderful ride, and I used to hack her all round the estate on my own [resting racehorse], once I came off when a pheasant came up under her feet, she trotted off home, but I called out "Bunty", she turned round and trotted back to me, it was quite a moment, considering how difficult she had been, and showed the bond we had built up in a few months.

 

[zangersheide]

And me, and i'm sure most 'normal' horse owners.

I can't understand why any horse or indeed animal lover would want to inflict unnecessary pain to a horse, i couldn't care less if some forum posters want to class me as a 'fluffy bunny' i'm not i'm patient and understanding i think and because i don't beat my horses on a regular basis they don't need much more than a raise of the voice to realise they best shut up and behave.

Major loaded 100% when i got him, then once he caught his back end on the partition of the lorry whilst loading seemed like nothing at the time but since then he's become a problem loader. A horse doesn't just decide it's not going to do something, sure they can take the mick a bit but it's rarely the case in reality. Violence is not the answer, asserting your authority of course they are big animals and need to know whos boss but not bullying a helpless animal into doing something.

Funnily enough i seem to have a couple of the best behaved horses on the yard so can't be doing anything too wrong...

Agreed

 

[Wagtail]

HA HA HA HA

no, that would be those gobbing off and receiving replies they cant handle so shout "i'm being bullied"

this place is getting like a nanny state kindtergarden every day..if little girls cant take, they shouldnt throw at adults..simples

Tell me you are under age, BB. I was tempted to put you on 'ignore' but decided not to for the sheer entertainment value.

 

[YasandCrystal]

Several years ago, I was helping a friend load her horse for a vet visit. The horse was an inconsistant loader. Neither of us were numpties, or inexperienced, but on this particular day the horse was having none of it. We tried the "nicey nicey", patience, food, planting feet on the ramp, cursing, lunge lines, lunge whips, linked arms, the lot. We postponed the visit until the following day, having spent literally hours trying to load the feckin' thing. Next day was like Groundhog Day, and we ended up ringing the vet and admitting defeat. This proper, old fashioned, vet said he was not far away, and would come by to help. We explained everything we'd tried over two days, and he nodded sagely. My friend was told "Take hold, walk up the ramp, and whatever happens, don't stop, and don't look backwards" She did as she was asked, and as the mare got to the bottom of the ramp, the vet cracked her across the backside with the hunting whip he'd taken out of his poacher's pocket! The horse shot up the ramp, stood quietly, and looked at us with a look of pure satisfaction, I'm sure at having made us look complete idiots! We didn't know whether to laugh or cry at the utter humiliation. The vet got into his car, and said he'd see us in a bit at the surgery. The horse never again caused a problem loading - she'd had her fun, you see.

Not violence, not a beating, thoroughly justified. We were far more traumatised than the horse - I still haven't forgiven it - Oh, the shame

Excellent story - I agree some horses just try is on and cracking behind or on the bottom with a whip will work for some. But I would NEVER use a cattle prod! Cattle are not as sensitive as horses and if this was deemed a 'humane aid' there would be such a thing as a 'horse prod'.