So who knows about towing?!

[Jesstickle]

I'm confused.

Does anyone understand the towing laws for new driving licenses and think they can explain them in a way a total dunce can understand? The government web pages on it are confusing the heck out of me!

Basically I want to know if my car ( which is a 2.0l saloon) will ever tow my horse. She's 15.3 and only a wee slip of a thing. Obviously this is not ideal but buying a new car plus a trailor plus paying to take the lessons/ test would actually bankrupt me at the moment I think.

Also, does anyone know anyone good to take said trailor lessons with in or around Cambridge whilst I'm asking anyway?

 

[arwenplusone]

If you passed your driving test after 1997 you WILL need to take a test to tow a trailer.

Your car may be powerful enough to tow but the question would be is it heavy enough.
Look up the spec of your car (manufacturer or what car? should tell you this). It will tell you how much weight the car can tow.
Basically it needs to weigh more than the trailer & the horse you are towing (if it doesn't then the trailer will dictate how fast you go

) It also needs to be powerful enough.


Here's an example. My 4x4 can tow 2t. A trailer would be about 1t unloaded (totally depends on trailer make so you need to check this out too). My horse weighs about 750kg. Include tack, water etc and I would be pushing 2t. This would be my limit. If I put 2 horses in then I would be breaking the law. (I don't tow with my 4x4 by the way).


You also need to think of how capeable your car is of towing & the MPG you will get. Towing a heavy trailer will knacker a normal car IMO.

I hope that helps.

 

[xmoodyxmarex]

If you passed after 1997 you cannot legally tow a trailer on your own

You have two options :
i) Take the test
ii) Drive with L Plates on with a passenger who is legal to tow. This could be someone who passed before 1997, or has passed their trailer test

Hope that helps!!

 

[chunkytfg]

God this question is asked too many times to count and everytime i see the answers i am amazed at just how wronong people can be!!!

You CAN tow a trailer however certain requirments need to me met.


***************************
Right the simple bit is any car under 3.5t you can drive.

***************************

Any unbraked(or braked) that is plated to a maximum gross weight(trailer and contents) of 750kgs you can tow.

This gives a total combined weight of 4.25t. This is called the gross train weight and it is the maximum weight allowed of the vehicle and trailer combined.

**************************

You can tow a trailer heavier than 750kgs AS LONG AS the MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE MASS of the trailer(trailer and contents combined) is less than the unladen weight of the vehicle(This number is on the vin plate or probably in the manual aswell).

AND the COMBINED MAX ALLOWABLE MASS IS LESS THAN 3.5t.

***************************

This is the undoing of most of us as the aveage 4x4 can tow a pretty hefty trailer meaning although the two combined may be under 3.5t the car's MAX GROSS TRAIN WEIGHT is more than 3.5t meaning you CAN NOT tow with it.

It is a pretty stupid rulle but there you go.

Now for example.

I have done the trailer test but prior to that i owned a volvo estate and a 4x4.

The 4x4 was the better towing vehicle obviously but it weighed 2.2t along with a 800kg payload allowance and a 2.2t towing capacity. This meant that the MAX GROSS TRAIN WEIGHT was 5.2t so i could not tow with it.

HOWEVER my volvo was a paltry 1.4t with a 1300kg towing capacity. This meant that my cars unaden weight was less than my loaded up caravan of 1200kgs and the combined MAX ALLOWABLE MASS was less than 3.5t(just) meaning i was perfectly legal to tow with it!

It is a totally rediculous rule if i'm honest and it needs sorting but some on here have managed to do it using large estate cars and having single trailers replated to allow them less load meaining the max allowable mass is just under the 3.5t.

 

[Chunkie]

The DVLA website will not be able to help you as far as the towing vehicle goes - you will need to check the specifications of the car as provided by the manufacturer, as MayFlower said.

There should be somewhere in the handbook where it lays down the towing limit for the vehicle which should not be exceeded (mine is 1500kg) and also the MGTW (maximum gross train weight) which is the combined weight of the vehicle and the trailer and should not be exceeded.

You will need to know the unladen weight of the trailer, the weight of your horse and the weights of anything else you will be putting in the trailer AND the towing vehicle as it should all be taken into account.

My 4x4 has a maximum towing capacity of 1500kg. My trailer is 770kg and the girlie at her heaviest is around 450-460kg. I have a single IW, so would only just be able to tow an IW 505 legally with one horse in it, as I think they weigh around 920kg empty.

It is a bit confusing, but if you already have the car you will need to buy a trailer which fits the limitations of that car.

 

[chunkytfg]

[ QUOTE ]
The DVLA website will not be able to help you as far as the towing vehicle goes - you will need to check the specifications of the car as provided by the manufacturer, as MayFlower said.

There should be somewhere in the handbook where it lays down the towing limit for the vehicle which should not be exceeded (mine is 1500kg) and also the MGTW (maximum gross train weight) which is the combined weight of the vehicle and the trailer and should not be exceeded.

You will need to know the unladen weight of the trailer, the weight of your horse and the weights of anything else you will be putting in the trailer AND the towing vehicle as it should all be taken into account.

My 4x4 has a maximum towing capacity of 1500kg. My trailer is 770kg and the girlie at her heaviest is around 450-460kg. I have a single IW, so would only just be able to tow an IW 505 legally with one horse in it, as I think they weigh around 920kg empty.

Wrong because the MAX ALLOWABLE MASS of the trailer must be under the vehicles plated max towing capacity. This applies regardless of your license catagory entitlement


It is a bit confusing, but if you already have the car you will need to buy a trailer which fits the limitations of that car.

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[_April_]

[ QUOTE ]
If you passed after 1997 you cannot legally tow a trailer on your own

You have two options :
i) Take the test
ii) Drive with L Plates on with a passenger who is legal to tow. This could be someone who passed before 1997, or has passed their trailer test

Hope that helps!!

[/ QUOTE ]


Can I be really cheeky and ask a supplementary question...

If you do option ii, can you put a horse in the back?
I know I can tow to practice so long as I have an approved passenger and L plates but I can't find any information on whether trailer has to be empty or not?

Was thinking of just phoning DVLA to ask!

 

[chunkytfg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you passed after 1997 you cannot legally tow a trailer on your own

You have two options :
i) Take the test
ii) Drive with L Plates on with a passenger who is legal to tow. This could be someone who passed before 1997, or has passed their trailer test

Hope that helps!!

[/ QUOTE ]


Can I be really cheeky and ask a supplementary question...

If you do option ii, can you put a horse in the back?
I know I can tow to practice so long as I have an approved passenger and L plates but I can't find any information on whether trailer has to be empty or not?

Was thinking of just phoning DVLA to ask!

[/ QUOTE ]

What gives you the impression the DVLA would know the answer about there own rules? LOL

The simple answer is YES YOU CAN providing it is legal to do so with your vehicle trailer combination? Which is what out of interest?

 

[peanut]

What can't be emphasised enough, imho, is not only whether a vehicle is heavy enough to tow a vehicle, but also whether it can STOP it.

Sorry folks, but it's my little hobby horse

 

[chunkytfg]

[ QUOTE ]
What can't be emphasised enough, imho, is not only whether a vehicle is heavy enough to tow a vehicle, but also whether it can STOP it.

Sorry folks, but it's my little hobby horse

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree totally.

Providing the trailers brakes are working properly though, there should actually be very little forwards force on the towing vehicle. But the vehicle needs to be heavy enough to actually force the brakes on in the first place though.

 

[Jesstickle]

I'm sorry. I'm still confused!

It sounds to me like towing a horse is pretty much never legal? Am I getting this right? If I tow with my car, which doesn't weigh much, I can't do it because my trailer + beast is too heavy to legally be pulled by my car, if I change car and buy myself an enormous 4x4 I can't tow because my car +trailor + beast is just too heavy in total to come in under 3.5t despite the fact that my car can then pull the weight?

Taking my HGV test and buying a lorry really really isn't an option right now. I want to tow about once a month. I don't want to pay £1000 to take my lorry test so that I can spend a load of money on a lorry which I can't park anywhere and which won't start when I want to go anywhere.

Gosh, this was so much easier when my mother would still ferry me about. If only I was a little older and had taken my test a bit quicker!

 

[chunkytfg]

Just to add though regarding the original question.

If this 2.0l saloon is petrol it may well be capable ot twing and stopping the trailer as per the manufacturers specs but if i'm honest it will be completly hopeless towing. to tow comfotably you need torque and petrols just dont have it unless you have lots and lots of cc's(think 3.0l+ ). Deisel is the answer for all your towing needs.

 

[chunkytfg]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry. I'm still confused!

It sounds to me like towing a horse is pretty much never legal? Am I getting this right? If I tow with my car, which doesn't weigh much, I can't do it because my trailer + beast is too heavy to legally be pulled by my car, if I change car and buy myself an enormous 4x4 I can't tow because my car +trailor + beast is just too heavy in total to come in under 3.5t despite the fact that my car can then pull the weight?

Taking my HGV test and buying a lorry really really isn't an option right now. I want to tow about once a month. I don't want to pay £1000 to take my lorry test so that I can spend a load of money on a lorry which I can't park anywhere and which won't start when I want to go anywhere.

Gosh, this was so much easier when my mother would still ferry me about. If only I was a little older and had taken my test a bit quicker!

[/ QUOTE ]

right you're going wrong because you think even with the trailer entitlement on your licence you still have a combined limit of 3.5t. YOU dont. the B+E allows you to tow with any sub 3.5t vehicle with ANY trailer providing the vehicle is allowed to maning you have in theory the capcity to tow say 3.5t trailer with a 3.5t evhicle giving you a total weight of 7t etc etc.

 

[_April_]

[ QUOTE ]


What gives you the impression the DVLA would know the answer about there own rules? LOL

The simple answer is YES YOU CAN providing it is legal to do so with your vehicle trailer combination? Which is what out of interest?

[/ QUOTE ]


haha love it

.

I have a Landrover Discovery 2.5 TD5 - 1999. Diesel Automatic
Braked Towing Weight 3500 kg

Will be towing an Ifor 505 - 1000kg approx according to my googling. Plus 2 x 15.2 horses.

Will be taking the test once I have practised a bit *sigh*

Do you have a source for your answer - would love to have it as proof if I get pulled over!!

 

[Jesstickle]

O I see!

Well that makes life a bit clearer! So basically I should just get on with taking this blinking test then!

Sounds like I'm going to have to change my car tho. What a bum!

Just another quick question then. Would stealing a parents diesel merc make towing any better? Assuming I take the test. It must weigh about 10 tonnes I reckon. I know I should buy a 4x4 and I'll certainly look in to it but if it was just little trips here and there would that be better. Also assuming I check that it would actually be legal?

 

[chunkytfg]

No source but tbh you'd be lucky to find a copper who has any more of an idea than the dvla.

Have you looked into the reversing part of the trailer test and how to set out the cones to practice it?

 

[arwenplusone]

[ QUOTE ]
God this question is asked too many times to count and everytime i see the answers i am amazed at just how wronong people can be!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

What was incorrect about my answer?

Not being stroppy, just interested.

As far as I can see, no trailer with a horse in it is ever going to weigh less that 750kg.

 

[_April_]

No I haven't even looked into it fully yet to be honest. I will need to get started though. Was thinking about taking a few lessons too just to make sure I have everything covered.

I've just bought the car 2 weeks ago and am on the look out for a trailer now so as soon as I have it I can get practicing

 

[chunkytfg]

This is very helpful for the trailer test aswell

 

[lilym]

IF you passed your test AFTER jan 1994 you will have to take a separate towing test.
regarding vehicles, look at the vehicle's vin plate, it's under the bonnet.
to give an example....i tow with a daihatsu fourtrack, it has an unladen kerbweight if 1750kgs, the towing capacity is 3500kg this gives a gross train weight of 5250kgs, this is the important figure that must not be gone over...so my ifor weighs 1000kg my horse 500kgs plenty of scope left for passengers food water ect.
now, i also run a vauxhall vectra, that is 1300kg with a towing capacity of of just 1400kg giving a GTW of just 2700kg, assuming 1000kg is your trailer (older trailers are heavier) that only leave 17ookg for horse, tack, driver passenger etc etc, so you would be really pushing your limit.
my advice would be to wait until you can afford to do it properly, OR look into the little 3.5t boxes that are able to be driven on your licence.

 

[chunkytfg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
God this question is asked too many times to count and everytime i see the answers i am amazed at just how wronong people can be!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

What was incorrect about my answer?

Not being stroppy, just interested.

As far as I can see, no trailer with a horse in it is ever going to weigh less that 750kg.

[/ QUOTE ]

but thats the point. YOU CAN tow a trailer over 750kgs without the +E part of the license it's just certain requirements need to be met.

It is possible to tow a horsebox and horse behind a suitable vehicle it is just very difficult to do with the restrictions not having the +E bit puts on you

 

[Jesstickle]

Fear that I'll be waiting some time before I can afford to buy all the things I would actually like! Perhaps you're right and I should give up on the idea for a while. Student debt and saving to buy a house and a horse probably isn't the best combo in the world. Isn't life frustrating sometimes? Sometimes I think I should just give up altogether. I don't know how people fund they're beasties. But then I am rather rubbish with money. Hehe

 

[_April_]

[ QUOTE ]
This is very helpful for the trailer test aswell

[/ QUOTE ]




Thank you! Really appreciate that x

 

[chunkytfg]

[ QUOTE ]
IF you passed your test AFTER jan 1994 you will have to take a separate towing test.

[/ QUOTE ]

1997

[ QUOTE ]

regarding vehicles, look at the vehicle's vin plate, it's under the bonnet.
to give an example....i tow with a daihatsu fourtrack, it has an unladen kerbweight if 1750kgs, the towing capacity is 3500kg this gives a gross train weight of 5250kgs

[/ QUOTE ]

Either the unladen kerbweight is less than 1750 or your car doesnt allow you to sit in it when you are driving!
[ QUOTE ]

, this is the important figure that must not be gone over...so my ifor weighs 1000kg my horse 500kgs plenty of scope left for passengers food water ect.
now, i also run a vauxhall vectra, that is 1300kg with a towing capacity of of just 1400kg giving a GTW of just 2700kg, assuming 1000kg is your trailer (older trailers are heavier) that only leave 17ookg for horse, tack, driver passenger etc etc, so you would be really pushing your limit.
my advice would be to wait until you can afford to do it properly, OR look into the little 3.5t boxes that are able to be driven on your licence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you edit the error's out of this please as tbh it is only going to confuse even more.

And yes i know my speeling(lol) is terrible before anyone says anything

 

[Law]

Bells? April? Medley? I'm confused lol!!

I always refer to this link which I found really, really useful when I was looking to take the test. http://www.trailertraining-wales.co.uk/reverse.html
I've linked to the reverse bit but the whole website is very very useful and takes you through it all bit by bit.
I passed with these guys and they train in england as well (not much help for you but the info is still good

)

Hope it helps.

I went first time to my test and had thankfully been advised I needed an audible relay for the indicators, additional mirror for the examiner and speedo reading in MPH (my jap import was KmPH so had to get it changed before doing my test) or I would have lost my test and fee

 

[arwenplusone]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
God this question is asked too many times to count and everytime i see the answers i am amazed at just how wronong people can be!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

What was incorrect about my answer?

Not being stroppy, just interested.

As far as I can see, no trailer with a horse in it is ever going to weigh less that 750kg.

[/ QUOTE ]

but thats the point. YOU CAN tow a trailer over 750kgs without the +E part of the license it's just certain requirements need to be met.

It is possible to tow a horsebox and horse behind a suitable vehicle it is just very difficult to do with the restrictions not having the +E bit puts on you

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah ok, then I stand corrected. But how many people are ever going to be able to meet those restrictions? My feeling is it is better to advise people to take the test.

 

[chunkytfg]

[ QUOTE ]


Ah ok, then I stand corrected. But how many people are ever going to be able to meet those restrictions? My feeling is it is better to advise people to take the test.

[/ QUOTE ]

very few however it is doable hence the long winded explination.

And yes it is far better to advise people to take the test but it is alot of hassle compared to sticking with your family estate diesel and just buying a new ifor single trailer and getting ifor to replate it so it is legal.

 

[ha903070]

We had to look into this as well, passed my text in 2008. We have had to take the trailer test in order to two, we needed a bigger trailer as have a big mare and a lightweight tb. It was expensive but well worth it we tow about once a fortnight.

Works out far cheaper than a wagon. One less road tax, mot etc to pay. Just needs servicing and insuring. We had to get a Shogun 4x4 there are alot of 4x4's out there but not all have the towing capacity you'd expect. With big horses the search was limited.!!

Its well worth paying to do the test with lessons first.

 

[lilym]

[ QUOTE ]
Fear that I'll be waiting some time before I can afford to buy all the things I would actually like! Perhaps you're right and I should give up on the idea for a while. Student debt and saving to buy a house and a horse probably isn't the best combo in the world. Isn't life frustrating sometimes? Sometimes I think I should just give up altogether. I don't know how people fund they're beasties. But then I am rather rubbish with money. Hehe

[/ QUOTE ]

don't give up!! i didn't get my 4x4 and trailer until i was 30!!! i even had to give up horse for a year while i paid for driving lessons as couldn't stretch to both LOL!! keep plodding on and you'll get there!!

 

[lilym]

must be unladen then, no need to bite my head off andf no, i'm not editing errors i am dyslexic and stuggle enough thanks.