So why are sellers not honest

EllenJay

EllenJay

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Today I went to view a horse for sale. After chatting to the seller I checked that the horse was fine, with no vices and was absolutely honest about my experience and my needs.

So today, traveled 1.5 hours to view a horse that sounded absolutely right on paper, and was very excited about getting a new boy. I told the seller that I was an experienced rider but had confidence issues, and wanted something that would give me confidence, was sound and had no issues, and was willing to pay a premium to achieve this.

I was assured that the horse in question was exactly what I needed - so I set out on a trek that was 1.5 hours from home.

When I arrived, the horse had obviously been worked before I turned up. The owner then refused to ride and got her "professional" rider on board, who added a neck strap. Alarm bells started to ring! Got the horse to the school and within 5 mins I noted the following observations:-
1) horse had a problem with near hind - wasn't tracking up at all
2) horse was a head shaker
3) rider had to work really hard to stop the horse taking off
4) horse had a splint that wasn't declared
5) the horse dished badly

The horse definitely wasn't as advertised - what a waste of time for both seller and potential buyer!

I am very concerned that a less experienced person than me will end up with a totally unsuitable horse.
 
EllenJay said:
Today I went to view a horse for sale. After chatting to the seller I checked that the horse was fine, with no vices and was absolutely honest about my experience and my needs.

So today, traveled 1.5 hours to view a horse that sounded absolutely right on paper, and was very excited about getting a new boy. I told the seller that I was an experienced rider but had confidence issues, and wanted something that would give me confidence, was sound and had no issues, and was willing to pay a premium to achieve this.

I was assured that the horse in question was exactly what I needed - so I set out on a trek that was 1.5 hours from home.

When I arrived, the horse had obviously been worked before I turned up. The owner then refused to ride and got her "professional" rider on board, who added a neck strap. Alarm bells started to ring! Got the horse to the school and within 5 mins I noted the following observations:-
1) horse had a problem with near hind - wasn't tracking up at all
2) horse was a head shaker
3) rider had to work really hard to stop the horse taking off
4) horse had a splint that wasn't declared
5) the horse dished badly

The horse definitely wasn't as advertised - what a waste of time for both seller and potential buyer!

I am very concerned that a less experienced person than me will end up with a totally unsuitable horse.
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I suppose the seller lied because she hoped she would pull the wool over your eyes. Luckily the horse wasn't drugged. Too many people, imo treat horses like troublesome cars to be pawned off.
 
Why are they not honest?

Well, I have been to look at some last year, and some were "not right" (that would be a generous way to say in pain and lame).

To my surprise some have then sold.

They put on a show. Someone fell for it.

That is why they are not honest.
 
mule said:
I suppose the seller lied because she hoped she would pull the wool over your eyes. Luckily the horse wasn't drugged. Too many people, imo treat horses like troublesome cars to be pawned off.
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But it must be harder to sell a horse to an undesirable home than sell to the right home.

This particular horse would have be good in a hunting home - not for a unconfident rider - and probably best to sell in the autumn, with full disclosure free headshaking.
 
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EllenJay said:
But it must be harder to sell a horse to an undesirable home than sell to the right home.

This particular horse would have be good in a hunting home - not for a unconfident rider - and probably best to sell in the autumn, with full disclosure free headshaking.
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I suppose some just don't care. Obviously if you wanted the best for your horse you wouldn't sell it to an unsuitable home but some owners have the mentality of dealers. Horse dealers are the precursors of second hand car dealers. Not that there's anything intrinsically problematic with either. It just makes sense to expect dodginess.
 
I too am horse hunting to buy. I haven’t even got as far as going to look! I have set my criteria so look within those parameters. Any I think might suit I contact the seller to see if still available. If the answer is yes I ask half a dozen questions. If the questions get answered (& usually they don’t) I then ask for a video showing walk trot & canter on both reins. (So far I never hear from them again). I have found that ‘professionals’ do a good advert with a variety of photos & a vide. you have to ‘think like the seller’ when reading their adverts. It’s not what they say, it’s what they don’t tell you!
 
I suppose it's a good idea to buy from someone with a reputation to maintain. Word travels fast in the horse world. Theoretically an inappropriate sale wouldn't be worth the reputational damage.
 
mule said:
I suppose some just don't care. Obviously if you wanted the best for your horse you wouldn't sell it to an unsuitable home but some owners have the mentality of dealers. Horse dealers are the precursors of second hand car dealers. Not that there's anything intrinsically problematic with either. It just makes sense to expect dodginess.
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Oohhh, bit of a sweeping statement. My landlady has bought lots of horses from dealers over the years and prefers them to private sellers as a good dealer looks after their reputation. The latest horse had all his main faults pointed out before we went to look, and the less obvious ones at the viewing (in case we missed them) - he is exactly as described and now has a home for life (despite his faults!).
 
wkiwi said:
Oohhh, bit of a sweeping statement. My landlady has bought lots of horses from dealers over the years and prefers them to private sellers as a good dealer looks after their reputation. The latest horse had all his main faults pointed out before we went to look, and the less obvious ones at the viewing (in case we missed them) - he is exactly as described and now has a home for life (despite his faults!).
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As you said a good dealer looks after his reputation
 
And so many don't actually know the height of their horse! Looked at two last year that were confirmed at 14.3hh and 15hh (heavy cobs) and both turned out to be 13.2hh.
 
Do not forget that buyers are not always that good either. I had one a few years ago. Came to try horse that she had been told was 16.3 (it was). She rode it despite the fact that she had not ridden for over 1 year. Her trainer rode it. They hacked it out. They came back for a second try - no problem. Asked for one try before vetting. Came nearly one hour late by which time I was tied up with farrier. Rode horse and then decided he was too big. Err - he is the same size that he was when you first tried him!

I am not a dealer but breed one or two mainly for my own use, but occasionally sell the odd one that does not meet my needs.
 
zaminda said:
Some sellers can't tell their horse is lame, I've known a few be genuinely surprised when told the horse doesn't look sound!
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This. Unfortunately I’ve also come across more than one owner that is generally surprised when you politely point out lameness. This is generally followed by denial, annoyance and anger.

OP brace yourself for a bumpy ride. I saw 15 before I purchased my last horse including one memorable confidence giving schoolmaster that dumped the person showing him to me in a drainage ditch.
 
Two reasons:
1. Most sellers don't know one end of a horse from the other.
2. Most buyers don't either.

So knowledgeable buyer will spot glaring faults that seller is blissfully unaware of, or ambitious numpty buyer will be unable to cope with a horse which rides beautifully for anyone with half a clue.
 
pennyturner said:
Two reasons:
1. Most sellers don't know one end of a horse from the other.
2. Most buyers don't either.

So knowledgeable buyer will spot glaring faults that seller is blissfully unaware of, or ambitious numpty buyer will be unable to cope with a horse which rides beautifully for anyone with half a clue.
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Yep!
 
Sadly I think a lot of people are just generally dishonest and don’t have any integrity in any part of their lives and that includes people who sell horses.
 
I think a lot of people are deluded, they have a horse that is a problem in some way yet think they can sell it on without trying to resolve the issues, normally because it will cost them to do so, it may be physical, it may be just that the horse is too much for them so they write an ad describing the paragon they would like it to be and expect someone even more deluded or foolish will come along and give them money for their unwanted horse.

I had one client who bought a horse from a pro that was brilliant at 2 viewings but totally lost the plot at the vetting, vet advised them to pull out but they thought the horse would be fine at their yard because it would get lots of attention and love, needless to say it was not a straightforward horse although it did the job it was a very tricky ride and went back to the pro when it all became too much to deal with.
 
mule said:
I suppose it's a good idea to buy from someone with a reputation to maintain. Word travels fast in the horse world. Theoretically an inappropriate sale wouldn't be worth the reputational damage.
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I would always seek to buy from a reputable dealer than a private person. I don't have the time nor resources to travel all over looking at horses that are far from how they are advertised. A reputable dealer will allow you to return a horse that you were not getting on with for whatever reason and exchange it for another in their stable assuming it was still in the condition it was in when you purchased it. If I were to buy a second hand car from a dealership it would be clean, serviced and warranted. If I were to buy a second hand car from someone that I had to meet at Bridgwater Services and bring cash I would not receive nor expect a warranty so I wouldn't enter into that sort of transaction. Not every dealer is out to rook you. Is the real issue here money?
 
be positive said:
I think a lot of people are deluded, they have a horse that is a problem in some way yet think they can sell it on without trying to resolve the issues, normally because it will cost them to do so, it may be physical, it may be just that the horse is too much for them so they write an ad describing the paragon they would like it to be and expect someone even more deluded or foolish will come along and give them money for their unwanted horse.

I had one client who bought a horse from a pro that was brilliant at 2 viewings but totally lost the plot at the vetting, vet advised them to pull out but they thought the horse would be fine at their yard because it would get lots of attention and love, needless to say it was not a straightforward horse although it did the job it was a very tricky ride and went back to the pro when it all became too much to deal with.
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Totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Irritates me when the 'problem horses' that are advertised state needing a forever home, even though the current owner won't pay for the vet fees or retraining and expects someone else to keep it for life.
Irritates me too when people think that if they buy a better horse they will suddenly become a better rider and/or that a horse will 'love' you back and be an angel just because you want it to (once knew a woman who was very upset because her horse was excited at a show and she'd "given her horse carrots the night before so he'd behave") . And seen so many people trying to ride quality horses too good for their own standard and then blaming the horse and the seller when it all goes wrong. Not every horse is drugged just because it doesn't go well for the new owner when they get it home!
 
pennyturner said:
Two reasons:
1. Most sellers don't know one end of a horse from the other.
2. Most buyers don't either.

So knowledgeable buyer will spot glaring faults that seller is blissfully unaware of, or ambitious numpty buyer will be unable to cope with a horse which rides beautifully for anyone with half a clue.
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This^^^ Buyers are just as often dishonest (with themselves) as to their ability, requirements, commitment and experience.

My favourite is a woman who glared at me whilst demanding to know that the horse (2 year old) she was viewing would definitely do Grand Prix dressage. I replied "If you can, he can", and left her to make up her mind.
 
Cortez said:
My favourite is a woman who glared at me whilst demanding to know that the horse (2 year old) she was viewing would definitely do Grand Prix dressage. I replied "If you can, he can", and left her to make up her mind.
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LOL !!! Maybe she thought the 2yo was genetically bred to train riders to high level by itself?
 
Quigleyandme said:
I would always seek to buy from a reputable dealer than a private person. I don't have the time nor resources to travel all over looking at horses that are far from how they are advertised. A reputable dealer will allow you to return a horse that you were not getting on with for whatever reason and exchange it for another in their stable assuming it was still in the condition it was in when you purchased it. If I were to buy a second hand car from a dealership it would be clean, serviced and warranted. If I were to buy a second hand car from someone that I had to meet at Bridgwater Services and bring cash I would not receive nor expect a warranty so I wouldn't enter into that sort of transaction. Not every dealer is out to rook you. Is the real issue here money?
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No, imo it's well worth paying extra for peace of mind.
 
In my experience of viewing horses and ponies, 90% are not as advertised. And I think they fall into 2 categories: dishonest or deluded.

The dishonest ones deliberately try to mask problems, don't declare major vices, lie about ages and heights and hope you don't notice etc. This can be in a range of severity from tactical ommission right up to drugging. And it applies to dealers too. I sent a horse back with a major conformational flaw that made it not fit for purpose - vetted as only fit for light hacking and NOT ever for jumping - and it was re-advertised a few days later as an event prospect. I called a dealer wanting a 4yo+, 16HH ISH or RIDx to drive 4 hours to be presented with a 17hh 3 YO KWPN.

The deluded ones just haven't a clue - underestimate the faults, over-estimate the positives, fail to notice lameness etc. I've seen horses I personally know being advertised in ways that just bear little resemblance to reality. One was advertised as 'has hunted' failing to mention that it reared over backwards its only time out. Or jumping over 1 metre when they mean single jumps not tracks etc

Buying horses is very frustrating!!
 
A good reason to buy from a breeder. I don't lie because I value my reputation. I want people to buy my horses who will do well with them and tell their friends.
 
Cortez said:
This^^^ Buyers are just as often dishonest (with themselves) as to their ability, requirements, commitment and experience.

My favourite is a woman who glared at me whilst demanding to know that the horse (2 year old) she was viewing would definitely do Grand Prix dressage. I replied "If you can, he can", and left her to make up her mind.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x54Jr-NPDCc

Was this your buyer?
 
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