So why are sellers not honest

I don’t know if this is a recent thing or whether I’ve just not noticed (probably the latter) but there seems to be more ‘pro’ riders selling horses.

Personally I wouldn’t now go near a pro selling a horse as it either seems to be

A) the pro rider rides the horse brilliantly and doesn’t take into account the person buying isn’t a pro and is genuinely surprised when it goes a bit pear shaped at viewing.
Or
B) the horse is with the pro rider to be sold on sales livery, the pro knows it’s tricky but goes ahead with viewings as doesn’t want the owner to think they are taking the P pocketing livery money and not doing viewings even though they have a nagging doubt in their mind that the person coming isn’t suitable.
 
Friend went to see one at the weekend was promised a lovely horse. Got there, it dished and was totally unschooled. Waste of time for the price.
 
Cortez said:
Just curious: do people not get videos before travelling if straight movement, etc. are a priority?
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No

- If its as good as described its sold before you get to see the videos
- If it hasn't sold the videos aren't worth watching!

Obviously there are good horses out there that take time to sell but for the "not tiny, not massive, broken but not ancient, sound, sane, suitable for the average leisure rider but enough scope to dabble affiliated market" the market moves very fast
 
ew0855 said:
No

- If its as good as described its sold before you get to see the videos
- If it hasn't sold the videos aren't worth watching!

Obviously there are good horses out there that take time to sell but for the "not tiny, not massive, broken but not ancient, sound, sane, suitable for the average leisure rider but enough scope to dabble affiliated market" the market moves very fast
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In that market the odd blemish, a splint or dishing should not be a reason to reject the horse, not sure which poster it was that mentioned them earlier, the price may well reflect a few imperfections and I think horses that are generally as described will sell quickly but most of those will also be advertised with good photos, possibly a video and if they have an affiliated record that is decent that will also be easy to access before calling.
Videos can be emailed so no real waiting involved, if the seller doesn't have something these days I would be very surprised, most private owners have loads of photos and videos on their phones, if a dealer is good they will also take some before putting up an ad.

I do think that often people prioritise in some ways the wrong things, no horse is perfect, if you don't want to show properly then as long as it is fit for purpose many small issues should be overlooked, I am amazed at how few people ask to hack when they try yet most will hack more than anything else yet they fail to even venture out of the school.
There is a pony here for sale at the moment described as a forward going, bold jumping pony and so far has been briefly tried by 2 nervous kids that the mothers thought were capable of riding him, he is not strong but is keen, his owner has tried to weed out unsuitable people but the parents just seem desperate to come and see him, I think he is in the wrong price bracket that makes him affordable, plan b is to take him out BE and raise the price.
 
Cortez said:
Just curious: do people not get videos before travelling if straight movement, etc. are a priority?
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Yes but the horse had just come on the market and the seller didnt have time to do a video. The seller actually agreed it dished and was advertised as a competition horse. Plus people do not know how to take photos never mind videos.
 
Kaylum said:
Yes but the horse had just come on the market and the seller didnt have time to do a video. The seller actually agreed it dished and was advertised as a competition horse. Plus people do not know how to take photos never mind videos.
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Dishing does not stop a horse from being a competition horse. Did the buyer not ask on the phone if it moved straight if it was a deal breaker for them.
 
silv said:
Dishing does not stop a horse from being a competition horse. Did the buyer not ask on the phone if it moved straight if it was a deal breaker for them.
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The dishing issue was the minor issue - the fact that it was a head shaker and far too strong both of which was asked prior to the viewing were major problems, but the biggest issue was the problem with the hind leg. This horse was advertised as fit and well and a confidence giver.
 
See, in this particular scenario I don't actually think your seller was being dishonest precisely. Unless you are a vet, the non-tracking up hind leg would be a matter of debate, the horse being strong for you is a matter of preference (one man's "strong" is another's "forward"), the dishing is irrelevant unless you want to show, as is the splint. This horse may well have given someone (who wasn't you) confidence, who knows? The headshaking is naughty, but some people don't much care about that sort of stuff. A video would have helped you, I think.
 
Cortez said:
See, in this particular scenario I don't actually think your seller was being dishonest precisely. Unless you are a vet, the non-tracking up hind leg would be a matter of debate, the horse being strong for you is a matter of preference (one man's "strong" is another's "forward"), the dishing is irrelevant unless you want to show, as is the splint. This horse may well have given someone (who wasn't you) confidence, who knows? The headshaking is naughty, but some people don't much care about that sort of stuff. A video would have helped you, I think.
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1) you didn't need to be a vet to see there was a problem with the hind leg - I am a amateur rider and the horse was being sold by a "professional" if I could see a problem without a vet then surely the seller could.
2) Strong - I had a long debate about my ability's and requirements. I asked if he was strong and told "never" but seeing the professional rider fighting with him every step ........ Horse wasn't "forward" he was strong
3) agree dishing and splint wasn't a problem - but on phone calls was assured "clean limbs and a straight mover"
4) headshaking is more than "naughty" - it's an issue.
5) I'm old school - don't particularly do videos and actually expect people to be honest. Don't think that is a failing on my part - would rather be disappointed in people rather than be distrustful.

Should probably add - that when the professional rider put on a neck strap before she got on board doesn't give a lot of confidence - for a horse that is a confidence giver
 
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I am "old school" and think Cortez would also consider herself to be yet I have used videos for years to buy and sell, first when they had to be posted, it really is worth spending time viewing videos as it can save wasted journeys, a good video can allow you to rule out anything that doesn't seem to fit your criteria and if the seller cannot be bothered to do a few minutes then is it worth you wasting your time going to view, yes you may miss the perfect horse by insisting on video but the benefit and time saving usually make it worthwhile.
As for being trustful many aspects of horse ownership are matters of opinion especially when money is involved, reading between the lines and getting as much information as possible can be difficult but the harder it is to get information out of them can be a clue in itself, my key question is why is it for sale, the answers are often not very believable when you think about it.
 
silv said:
Dishing does not stop a horse from being a competition horse. Did the buyer not ask on the phone if it moved straight if it was a deal breaker for them.
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Sorry but we are picky for our money we buy straight horses.
Again what this whole thread is about. It was also unschooled. Ofcourse she asked. 30 years if experience we have seen and heard it all before luckily it was only down the road.
 
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Kaylum said:
Sorry but we are picky for our money we buy straight horses.
Again what this whole thread is about. It was also unschooled. Ofcourse she asked. 30 years if experience we have seen and heard it all before luckily it was only down the road.
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Good on you for supporting OP - it seems they are being targeted a bit on here for some reason. I have interpreted OP's posts as being that the horse was not as described on the phone, plus significant things were left out as well (e.g. I would not go to look at a headshaker).
Have been to see horses described wrongly in ignorance, but have also been to see horses that have been deliberately mis-described - the first is annoying but the second is downright criminal.
Love videos for movement and decent photos for conformation but they can be edited/retaken/chosen to hide things. I have a very good friend who broke her back in teh past and who absolutely must have a sensible unlikely to spook horse (and before some of jump on the band wagon, yes she knows all horses can spook on occasion but she wants an unlikely-to-do-so) and she has been to see numerous horses that have been mis-described.

However, on the plus side there are some brilliantly honest people out there that don't want there horses to end up with the wrong 'match' and go to a lot of trouble to ensure you know a lot about the horse so that you and they are both happy. Perhaps someone should start a 'equine match-making service'? :)
 
I searched for nearly 2 years before finding my boy. Met with a lot of used horse dealers, some nice, some not so, travelled too many miles to think about .... but I did meet some genuine sellers too and some very nice people. Surprisingly felt a lot.of pressure from people saying 'you havent found one yet? What have you been doing?" But I was determined to wait for the one that gave me 'that feeling.

The second last horse I went to look at I was at quite a low ebb with looking and very nearly bought her because I was sick of the whole process of trying to decipher if horse and sellers were honest or not. But my gut feeling stopped me gping further and in hindsight making a mistake.

A week later, and friend of a friend rang me about a gelding she was selling, heard I was Looking, and boom! He's perfect. I've had him a month or so now and couldn't be happier.

In answer to your question, there are genuine sellers out there, but more so than not I came up against 'tweaks on the truth' which is common selling strategy, isn't it? If your booking a summer holiday, the brochure says glorious sunshine all year, but you get there and one day it's thunderstorms. Who's gping to market the chance of thunderstorms?

Horse hunting is hard, heartbraking sometimes, and I don't envy you.
I've worked out.my gelding and I should both meet retirement around the same time, and I won't be horse hunting again!.
 
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wkiwi said:
Good on you for supporting OP - it seems they are being targeted a bit on here for some reason. I have interpreted OP's posts as being that the horse was not as described on the phone, plus significant things were left out as well (e.g. I would not go to look at a headshaker).
Have been to see horses described wrongly in ignorance, but have also been to see horses that have been deliberately mis-described - the first is annoying but the second is downright criminal.
Love videos for movement and decent photos for conformation but they can be edited/retaken/chosen to hide things. I have a very good friend who broke her back in teh past and who absolutely must have a sensible unlikely to spook horse (and before some of jump on the band wagon, yes she knows all horses can spook on occasion but she wants an unlikely-to-do-so) and she has been to see numerous horses that have been mis-described.

However, on the plus side there are some brilliantly honest people out there that don't want there horses to end up with the wrong 'match' and go to a lot of trouble to ensure you know a lot about the horse so that you and they are both happy. Perhaps someone should start a 'equine match-making service'? :)
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Oh yes, like jumping vids that only show the approach off one rein and no bits in between. I watched one of the liveries on our yard making a sales video for her pony. When he jumped, he made a nice shape, but he was inconsistent and bucked like anything in between. Curiously, his sales video showed none of that...
 
I think most people who sell anything do not point out its bad points. I have yet to buy a house where the shower works properly, if at all. One had no insulation so the first thing we had to do was spend £500 on insulating the roof when I thought loft insulation was standard in a modern house.
When I sell which is not very often, I leave in the field so they can see it caught, tied up, and they know its not been worked before they arrived. Most people sell horses for a reason and the its the buyers to work out if what the seller is saying makes sense. The passport can tell you a lot, the vaccination stamps often tell you more than the change of ownership.
As I have bought a few children's ponies my tip would be, always buy from a home less knowledgeable than you and if they have coped for at least 2 years, you will.
I would never buy from a pro yard, I have seen to many horses out competeing on the production line, held together by a very strong rider, a new set every month or more. Most homes even if you ride well are never going to reproduce that and the chances are it will go backwards, then you have paid a premium for something that is no further forward. Its just like buying a car, the dealer presents it in it best light, adds their profit margin, for something that came out of a field eight weeks before.
 
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