Softening a young horse's mouth

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Whiskey2012

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I have a connemara who has just turned 5. He has developed quite a hard mouth and resists the bit at times. This is a result of poor riding and his mouth being cut up by someone out hunting last season. I have what I think are quite light hands particularly as I have done polo all my life and at this stage I am not really asking the horse to go in much of an outline, I think this will come with time, just to respect what I ask.

He is not very supple or easy to turn as a result and can have a tendency to be a bit flighty at which point this hard mouth becomes a particular problem. He is very willing and not a nasty horse I think he just has this in his head.

I have him in a loose ring snaffle with sweet iron and copper lozenge and I am not willing to put a harsher bit in as this will not solve the problem. His back and teeth and saddle are not a problem.

I am interested in hearing any suggestions as so schooling practices etc that may help encourage his mouth to become softer again.
 
Myler combination bit . That will work on poll , nose and curb ( like the pressure points you'd get when using a headcollar) and last place is mild pressure in the mouth . Well worth taking a look at and/or speak to a Myler advisor or Myler bit bank ?
 
Many thanks for your suggestion. At this stage I am open to suggestions but am really looking for advice as to training practices to encourage him to become more accepting rather than changing bits.
 
Going to start with a disclaimer that I am no expert and am only passing on what I happened to read in 'Train your young horse' by Richard Maxwell...it might be what you're looking for, rather than a different bitting solution...he says that a lot of bit resistance can be due to the horse not truly understanding what the bit is really for...so he suggests lateral flexion work (from the ground)...walking along the fence line and asking for a little flexion towards you...it won't be much at first...reward with release once you get it and build up. Work both sides in turn obvs...He also recommends some lateral shoulder work from the ground for this too but you'd be better looking directly at the book rather than my garbled explanation!!
Might be worth a try anyway.
 
I think the combination would be a great solution . If he's had problems with his mouth then maybe a rest from pressure in his mouth will be of great benefit to him , physically and mentally . Let him recover mentally then go back , if you feel you need/want to , to something else. If he's happier with , for the moment , less pressure in his mouth you'll get alot further with his training than a long unhappy battle.
Its like someone forcing you to wear heels ... if its uncomfortable and painful then you'll be unhappy to wear them and dread having to put them on . I cannot do heels ... I walk like Dick Emery !
 
A combination bridle is quite a lot of information for a relatively green horse to process. It is also effectively a leverage bridle so you run the risk of making him FEEL lighter without actually MAKING him lighter, if that makes sense.

If you want to go fancy you could try a straight pull hackamore/lindell to get him trusting the hand, stretching and working on his lateral flexion. At the same time you can either hang a bit in his mouth from the outset or wait until you have a bit of progress and then do so. If you're doing that, start with no reins on the bit then progress to reins on but still riding mostly off the nose to gradually switching over.

That said, nothing in your post suggests you need to go with something unusual at this point. What work have you done so far?

Does he understand the leg as "volume control"? Quite often horses struggle to understand the hand because they are either running away from the leg and so all the "whoa" has to come from the hand. What happens when you ride him on a loose rein in an enclosed space at all three gaits? Will he maintain his pace loose rein and come back to you from a combination of body voice and hand?

Big, slow circles on a long rein in walk just "tipping the nose" as the cowboys said and getting him to follow an opening hand around is a great exercise for softening the top line. Do a few one way, then the other, different sizes etc. but all slowly and holding gently until HE releases. The exercise is tougher in trot as it takes a lot of strength and balance but you can do similar with bigger turns and a slightly shorter rein.

Even gentle flexions stood still can help the horse understand what you want. These have to be done carefully, with a long, stretched neck, and not in a "backwards" way but they do break the process down into its smallest components.

Are you sure he's comfortable in himself? I'm not one to go running for help every time a horse looks at me funny but if he's been aggressively badly ridden he's bound to have some muscle pain and incorrect patterns of movement. It might be worth some sort of therapy, although there is a lot you can do yourself.
 
The combination bit is a progressive bit in that you only get pressure in one area then if that doesnt work then you get pressure in the next , then the next , its not all at once .Its very rewarding as once there is no pressure from your reins there is no pressure anywhere on your horses head ( poll, nose, curb , mouth). Myler brothers start all their youngsters in them as its most like a headcollar ish /bitless bridle .
As TarrSteps says as per Western , an open hand ..sort of leading will help . Be obvious and clear and main thing rewarding and with time it should improve
 
Thanks for your response TarrSteps. Whilst I think somethinillremember's suggestion is not a bad one, knowing the horse as I do and the way I personally like to do things I would like to at the moment stick to a simple bit and not try anything to unusual although these may be useful if some schooling doesn't seem to improve things.

He is actually in general the sort of horse who won't make any extra effort if it is not required of him and he is incredibly chilled out where he is now, unlike where he was before and where the problems stem from. Loose rein in the arena in 3 gaits is not really a problem with him and if anything he will tend to just slow down if not pushed forwards. He is in general schooling quite happily at home but the "hardness" of his mouth becomes more of a problem in situations such as yesterday when I went to a local show. He was very chilled considering just had a couple of moments where he got a bit carried away or flighty and at this point a softer mouth would certainly have benefited both of us!

In terms of him being comfortable, he has been uncomfortable where he was before - he was pushed and forced too much for a young horse and became a bit stiff with achey muscles and was rarely turned out. I had a physio out who confirmed this and suggested going back to basics and not pushing him too much which has certainly improved things. He now spends lots of time out or in a very large stable and he is not being forced or overworked so he can be comfortable and just be a young horse when he needs to be! The change is unrecognisable but there are still problems such as his hard mouth as a result of the way he was before.
 
Somethingiwillremember thanks for that extra explanation. It is definitely an interesting, and from the sounds of it, beneficial concept.
 
If things are generally ok 90% of the time then the rest Im sure will come along. You could try a combination from a bit bank , its a small trial fee for 30 days and it may make all the difference or no difference but if it does make a difference then its worth it ! It is difficult with bits as all react different . Some are happy in what alot consider to "harsh" bits and others in a lovely "soft/mild" bit ,but if its slightly "wrong " for them , they throw themselves on the floor and have a tantrum !
Good Luck !
 
somethingillremember said:
The combination bit is a progressive bit in that you only get pressure in one area then if that doesnt work then you get pressure in the next , then the next , its not all at once .Its very rewarding as once there is no pressure from your reins there is no pressure anywhere on your horses head ( poll, nose, curb , mouth). Myler brothers start all their youngsters in them as its most like a headcollar ish /bitless bridle .
Click to expand...

There is a commonly used western breaking "combination bridle" but it's not the leverage one most people mean when they mention a Myler one, it's just a straight pull and a snaffle. I know the Myler boys have promoted their combination bridle (John Lyons also sells one) but it's still a leverage bit at the end of the day and that's something you really have to think about with a green horse.

Also - this is a bit of a pet issue of mine - Western horses are quite different in the hand than "proper" (as in not AQHA or even American show hunters) English horses. They are all about the "pre signal" and having the horse what "we" would consider behind the hand. I have started both and even some that have done both and while there are similarities, the use of Western bits on English horses makes me a little nervous because they "make" (which is what complicated bits do - they produce a very specific result) a horse go differently than it needs to feel for dressage, xc etc. When I last looked at the Myler US site they actually had a warning on some of their bits now that says, effectively, "for Western use only".

This is not to say that specialist bits don't have their uses, especially short term. I have a Myler configuration I love for horses that invert - it produces a very clear "tip your nose down" effect - and they usually wear it for a few rides and then we switch back to something more suitable for the job at hand. But on a horse this green I might want to go with something a bit more traditional.
 
Connies can be quite strong and sensitive so I would agree that it is a training issue rather than a bitting one. They also tend not to react to pressure on the nose and can be quite towy in a headcollar. A horse's natural reaction is to run from what frightens him so then they set themselves and don't hear instructions from the rider. Your pony is following nature.
I would start by riding a lot of transitions from walk to halt and back to walk giving many short light aids rather than one long one to teach him to react to a lighter aid. It is the same with the leg aids. Horses tend to be more wooden when they are behind the leg. In walk you can also teach him to turn with an open rein and maybe use poles as a guide for him to go round, over, between, etc. this will also hold his interest more easily and help to show him what you want. When you start to get some reactions then go to trot walk trot transitions and turns.
A cheek snaffle could help with the turning and he might be better with a single joint. A bit with leverage is unlikely to help if he is hard to get in front of your leg.
 
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