Sold horse nightmare

[Rully]

I bought a horse in August this year, had her 5 stage vetted bloods taken etc and all fine. I intended to keep her as a long term project to compete in county showing next year. I ended up selling her last month as my groom gave her notice and my help with riding has had to give up due to a medical issue. The horse was a allrounder. I sold her to a lady who said she was very experienced, she tried the horse in the school, open field, we hacked along a busy road, quiet lane passing different traffic etc. I showed her the advert I bought the horse from. She did not have the horse vetted. We both signed a receipt stating 'sold as seen'.

2 weeks after buying her I received a call saying she had been difficult to hack out that day, spooking, jogging etc. I gave her some advice (she hadn't been using the same tack ie martingale) as me, she said she was going to put her on a herbal mare supplement; I also gave her the number of someone who lived in the same village who could help get her going and she could use her school. I also passed on the old owners phone number (and a copy of the ad I bought the horse from) in case she could help. All seemed ok. Then 4 days later the buyer called me again threatening me court action! Since that ride she hadn't ridden the mare out, she rode her in the field and said she was putting her head up and evading so she gave up. She now says that the mare is dangerous, unsafe to be ridden and will be pts! That she has bolted (tho apparently 'jumping forward 3 feet is bolting'), reared (but not upright on her back legs she has bounced) etc She claims she is not fit for purpose, she was screeching down the phone at me that she has taken legal advice and quoting 'the sale of goods act 1979''. I refused to take the horse back over the phone as said she was absolutely fine and asked her to write to me.

I have written her a formal letter detailing the above and also have witnesses who have ridden the horse just prior to her purchase (including someone who tried the horse). I have absolutely no reason to believe the horse wasn't fit for purpose at the time of sale. I've offered to go down or pay a 3rd party to ride the horse as well. Suggested checking tack, bit, saddle fit, back teeth etc

She received my letter and called me again last night and was just so rude. Accused me of all sorts of things, ripping people off, drugging etc. I suggested the mare hadn't settled in with her and to have some lessons and was told she was 'very experienced' and didn't need any help. She hasn't done any of the checks I suggested. Told me to hurry up and get down to ride the horse as she has someone booked to take it away for meat. I just can't believe it. She has not had anyone else out to help her or even assess the horse to say it is dangerous.

I do't want to go down there now as I think we could possibly get into a confrontation so arranging a 3rd party to go down and ride the horse. I guess my question is, I believe I have done everything right before the sale and now helping on a goodwill basis....will I be ok if it gets to court? I believe from what I've read that the buyer has to prove the horse was unfit for purpose at the time of sale. Does anyone have any experience with this type of claim?

 

[Wagtail]

Personally, I would buy the poor mare back and get her out of there quick. Sounds like she is very unhappy. I could never leave a horse with someone who would send it for meat. Cut your losses and get the mare back. Legally, of course, she has no leg to stand on, but for the mare's sake, she needs rescuing.

 

[Rully]

Personally, I would buy the poor mare back and get her out of there quick. Sounds like she is very unhappy. I could never leave a horse with someone who would send it for meat. Cut your losses and get the mare back. Legally, of course, she has no leg to stand on, but for the mare's sake, she needs rescuing.

I don't have the £ to

 

[Wagtail]

I don't have the £ to

In that case, then I would offer to have the horse back and sell it for her. Could you do that? Obviously, she should not really be allowed to get away with this kind of behaviour, but a living creature is involved and sometimes it is morally right to do what we can to help them.

 

[be positive]

I agree with Wagtail, find a way to get her back quickly.

 

[wallykissmas]

Offer the persons meat money and arrange a 3rd party to collect the horse and its passport, and ,et that be the end of it.

If you don't have meat money could the person video the horse being ridden and send it to you ?

 

[Frosty89]

Could the woman be calling bluff with regards sending for meat? She would have to be pretty heartless to do such a thing!

As Wally said, offer her the meat money if you can afford it which would be under £1000 and have the horse back.

 

[Rebels]

I have had similar, lovely horse i owned for 9years went to someone who sounded perfect in all ways, i dropped him off and was happy. Further emails said he was a bit unsettled in the stable but as he was always fine it was put down to new stables. Then i had a call saying he was dangerous on the ground and weaved. Rushed to visit, found horse very unsettled as they were shutting the top door and stable had no window. Mentioned that that would upset most horses and got screamed at about mis selling though they agreed he was a lovely ride. Offered lower than purchase price back saying that if he was indeed this weaving loon they had devalued him and offered statements to.previous behaviour. They declined so i left with them threatening meat/ dealer/ prosecution. Heard nothing since and as they were multi millionaires i expect they would have good lawyers onto me by now. Devastated but wasnt in a postion to take him back as was trying to sell my non competitive horses and increase my eventers. Trying to.pluck up the courage to email them soon.

 

[JCWHITE]

I think you have been more than fair ,
I doubt that the threat would be carried out.
(I vowed never to sell another horse again due to the very nature of these transactions).
I wish you all the best , try not to beat yourself up about it.
Do the specialist lawyers who advertise in H and H have a free first half hour `session?,
Do the BHS have a helpline?

 

[Polos Mum]

I guess you have two options - get the horse back (if she is really having her PTS that will cost her money so you taking her away for free will actually save her cash, although I suspect she'll accuse you of all sorts for suggesting this!).
If you can't afford to refund the money/ have the ongoing care costs while you find her another home then just leave the lady to it, the mare was sold as seen and if she really goes through with PTS she'll have no 'evidence' to offer the court as to the behaviour of the mare it will be your word (and your friends words) against hers (and her friends) it'll get no where in court and the costs will be prohibative for her to really take it anywhere.

The sad thing will be the mare will be in an unhappy place while all this goes on. The only thing that will calm the woman down is full refund - if that's not possible then unfortunately you have to be prepared for lots more hassle from her - sadly.

Why people can't understand that horses are living, breathing, thinking creatures and they are not machines so do behave differently in different circumstances I really don't know. It would save a lot of grief for buyers and sellers if this was written in bold in the front of every horse book and on signs at all riding schools ! (rant over)

 

[Arizahn]

Horrible situation indeed

 

[Fransurrey]

Why people can't understand that horses are living, breathing, thinking creatures and they are not machines so do behave differently in different circumstances I really don't know. It would save a lot of grief for buyers and sellers if this was written in bold in the front of every horse book and on signs at all riding schools ! (rant over)

You could sky-write it, but people still don't see these things. I also had similar, including me giving the offer of going to ride the pony (I'd offered before he was sold), having testimony that he wasn't a bolter, etc etc...In my case, though, they'd already sold him to a dealer at a vast profit and actually tried to screw me out of money (I straight away offered to go and get him back). I'd sold him for a token amount, as he wasn't straightforward. He even demonstrated his issues on the test ride. If I ever had to do the same again, there are a LOT of things I'd do differently. Sorry to hear you're also having issues, OP. I agree that if you can find the funds, get her back, but if not, then go down WITH a third party and walk away if she becomes confrontational. You'll probably find that she's less cocky in person. I was in the same situation in not being able to buy him back (sold for £100, but the dealer when traced wanted £1000). It's something I still think about to this day, as I never saw him again. If you can avoid that, do.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Horrible situation indeed. I would definitely not recommend taking the horse back and selling on for her. That's a whole nother minefield. Thing about it is you need to at least talk to a lawyer.

I had to do something similar in a situation in which I took a horse back until the owners decided what they wanted to do with him. You know on the account of I wanted to do right by the horse. They wanted to sell and by the time they decided this they owed me a good deal of money. All of that was explained at the beginning in front of witnesses. Long story short I sold the horse for my costs as I said I would. I'm not a charity. They didn't care and wouldn't answer my calls. Until a brother won a race a month later. Then they wanted him back. Threatened me with all sorts. Saw a lawyer and he said there is nothing they can do. They have no case. Lawyer was right. Once I lawyered up the threats stopped.

Originally the owner asked me to to do a deal. He wanted me to but the horse back for original price plus their costs for the few months they had him. I told him to buy a car off the lot, and 4 months later call the dealership and offer him the same deal. If they agreed to pay the full price plus diesel, insurance, and tax then is do the same.

Honestly I hate selling horses for this very reason. I do very little now. I can't stand people.

Terri

 

[maree t]

What a horrid situation to be in. You must be very upset about all this but I dont think she will have much comeback to be honest. i would be tempted to offer meat money and take it back
It is such a shame that people dont give them chance to settle down.
I put a mare on loan in the autumn, delivered her friday afternoon, child had a lesson on her saturday morning and got chucked off !!. i went and got her back and she was so stressed that they could barely hold her , my son just took the lead rope and held her loosley and she went straight up the ramp . She has been as good as gold since being back with us but doubt she would have ever settled with them

 

[AmyMay]

Personally, I would buy the poor mare back and get her out of there quick. Sounds like she is very unhappy. I could never leave a horse with someone who would send it for meat. Cut your losses and get the mare back. Legally, of course, she has no leg to stand on, but for the mare's sake, she needs rescuing.

Yep, this.

And not that it's relevant - but odd reasons for selling in the first place..

 

[Luci07]

Such a shame. Horses do take time to settle. I loaned my old mare out ages ago as a broodmare and got a call less than a week later that the mare was uncontrollable, chasing people, vicious etc etc. Went straight back to get the mare and found
1. stabled on straw. I had specifically said not to as the mare would eat the entire bed. She did. Three nights on the trot
2. Complete change of field partners - not just the introduction but on a daily basis
3. Colt being allowed to try to hump her leg. Yes he was a shetland and could not reach but clearly upsetting the mare

I had a crowd waiting to see me collect said vicious mare. I called her, she whinnied, trotted over and ambled out of the field quietly and straight onto the trailer. I am not a professional either.

So take legal advice before you have any further conversations. If you offer to sell this horse, then at the very least you will be landed with all the costs plus the grief of selling him again (and the responsibility - again). Think a lot of this is bluster so be polite, firm but do check your ground so you can quote back at me.

Dealing horses tend to settle in quickly as they are often quite happy to be in a quieter yard with less riders etc. Horses that have belonged privately and happily tend to often take a little longer as they were perfectly happy before they moved!

 

[Goldenstar]

You need to take legal advice quickly so you know properly where.
Personally ( I have sold in my life very few horses) but I never ever spend the money recieved for at least four months until I am really sure it's working in its new home . You did not sell this poor poor horse for financial reasons so if I where you I take it back and give her back her money less the transport costs
Just because you are not a dealer does not mean the law does not protect a buyer if you go to law there is no saying how it will work out you did not own the horse long and this could well be effectively used agaisnt you in court you did not insist on vetting I would be very unhappy ever to sell to someone who did not vet , did you have the horse vetted when you bought it.
I do not know what would happen if the new owner put the horse to sleep this may well be an empty threat let's hope so.
Get advice today get a letter sent today start spending money on lawyers today or get the money and go and get the horse home safe.

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

Where is this horse based now? Maybe you and someone who doesnt know the horse could go and spend some time riding it, assessing the situation and watch the new owner ride the horse and see the issues in the flesh

 

[Rully]

Yep, this.

And not that it's relevant - but odd reasons for selling in the first place..

I had 8 living in + 2 out so too many to look after on my own especially coming into winter when groom gave notice. The horse was bought as a show horse for under 25 classes (which rider is and I'm not).

 

[AmyMay]

I had 8 living in + 2 out so too many to look after on my own especially coming into winter when groom gave notice. The horse was bought as a show horse for under 25 classes (which rider is and I'm not).

Ah makes sense.

Well good luck. I would absolutely buy the horse back in your shoes.

She can take you to court - and would quite probably win.

 

[Goldenstar]

Find some help quickly to get you through the winter ,even if it's less hours ,groom does not have the full skill set whatever .
Just get help.

Just editited to add the sheer number of threads about sensible horses in one home that go to the next and it all goes wrong makes me seriously worry about the intelligence of the people buying them but OP you said this horse was bought as a project did you clearly sell it as a project you had to short a time for it to have gone from a project to a say sensible alrounder.

 

[SpottyTB]

I had a simular situation a few years back, i had a lovely tb mare for sale. I advertised her from the field as a project to bring back into work - she was £1500 with a £500 saddle, bridle and rug for every occasion, also boots, head collar and numnahs! A lady called up and came and saw her, she claimed she wanted to see her ridden/ride her, i explained she'd not been ridden in 2 months due to me getting m.e and suffering hugely because of it (hence selling the mare).

Anyway, i gave in, tacked the poor mare up, lunged her then got on her.. they walked with me and we went up and around the block - she was perfectly behaved. They came again, i schooled her for them and she got on - she was slightly up tight but fine. They saw me handle her, ride her fresh from field etc etc.

I stated that if she wanted her, she was a typical tb that needed riding 5 times a week and also that said mare had had a sore back when i purchased her (3 years previous) but nothing since it being fixed by a chiro.. so in order to keep back muscled and ok she needed to be worked at least 5 times a week. I thought i'd made myself pretty clear, she offered us a little under the asking price and we accepted as we felt this "experienced rider" would be ok with her and would have enough support around her to help her.

We took her to the lady free of charge, and within the first week we had like 10 phone calls. Turns out, the lady had put her in the stable until it was dark and then turned her out in a new field with new horses IN THE DARK. Mare had cantered straight into a 5 bar gate and gone over. Then she wouldn't pick her feet up for lady, so we went over to her and i picked them all up - no problems! Stood there with her whilst she did it too. Next thing was - mare wouldn't stand up for farrier to shoe her - baring in mind it was gale force winds that day - she'd been there 3 days (using a very heavy handed farrier - one that i WOULD NEVER recommend - and i told her so). Next thing - mare was being quite fresh to ride out - well new rodes, had 2 weeks off before having tack thrown on her and ridden out! Said mare didn't actually ever do anything wrong!

Anyway i had a phone call, she threatened legal action, re sale the lot.. i told her i had a receipt stating that she was sold as seen. I told her i would help her as much as possible, offer advice etc etc but i would not be giving her money back nor would i be going to court. She came back a few weeks later saying she wouldn't be taking us to court, took the mare to her very nice, experienced mil and ended up competing mare in local level stuff.. but decided she didn't get on with the horse and was she was slightly to big for her (another thing i had commented on).

Bloody waste of time, lots of tears from myself, my gran about said horse. for you I would say she won't have a leg to stand on RE court action, if you can, buy the horse back but if not, i'd let her get on with it.

i feel for you, it's bloody horrible.
STB

 

[Black_Horse_White]

Sounds like the same person who bought a pony off me! Why do people claim to be experienced then blame the seller when the horse turns out to be unsuitable? I was taken to court and had to take the pony back and pay all expenses.

 

[Shadow the Reindeer]

It does actually sound like she's trying to call a bluff. Also sounds a text book case of someone who overhorsed themselves, and is trying to back out, by claiming horse is dangerous, and threatening to call the meatman as a way to get you to cough up and take back.
Sending a third party is a good idea, as much as you want to witness this supposed behaviour, you don't want to be backed into a corner by this woman, and you've no idea what she's got up her sleeve.
Is it just me though, or is there an increased number of cases involving people trying it on? Makes you wary about selling a horse on tbh, because who knows what state him or her are going to come back in if the sale goes pear shape?

 

[Rully]

Find some help quickly to get you through the winter ,even if it's less hours ,groom does not have the full skill set whatever .
Just get help.

Just editited to add the sheer number of threads about sensible horses in one home that go to the next and it all goes wrong makes me seriously worry about the intelligence of the people buying them but OP you said this horse was bought as a project did you clearly sell it as a project you had to short a time for it to have gone from a project to a say sensible alrounder.

I am trying! I am only asking for mucking out help. Someone came last week but gave up as it was too far to trravel for p/t work. Adverts everywhere.

Sorry I will be more specific. When I bought her horse was a proven allrounder- shown at local level, w/t, prelim dressage, small xc/sj.. fun rides that sort of thing. I classed her as a 'project' to bring on for county level showing. I sold her with a similar advert. Buyer saw a copy of the advert I bought her from before she agreed to buy her. After my first phone call, I resent advert and old owners contact details.

When I bought the horse she was 5 stage vetted with bloods. Her behaviour has always been fine so no reason to run the bloods. Hope that explains

 

[Spyda]

I had 8 living in + 2 out so too many to look after on my own especially coming into winter when groom gave notice. The horse was bought as a show horse for under 25 classes (which rider is and I'm not).

Rully, you really shouldn't have to explain your reason for needing to sell. It's no one's business TBH. People do need to sell their horse/s every now and again for genuine and/or personal reasons.

Sounds like a nightmare scenario, particularly if you don't have the funds available to buy back at the original sale price. Meat money would be a max of £500'ish I should think (for mw 16hh horse) - could you offer that (or whatever the appropriate amount would be for her size?) A mercenary calculation, but if it gets the mare back at a price you could afford, then worth broaching perhaps. Mind you, the new owner might choose to cut-off-her-nose and refuse to sell back to you for a lesser amount and, in that case, I cannot see that you have any choice but to let her get on with it. In all likeliehood she is just 'trying it on' and 'sounding off' and won't send the mare for meat. That's ridiculous, in anycase. Silly woman. What a thing to say (Grrrrr ) Plus, you've been extremely accommodating in offered her help, and in writing, so I don't think the seller has a leg to stand on critisising you. A bummer of a situation though, especially since you gave the new owner a good trial of the horse before selling it. ((( Hugs )))

 

[FairyLights]

I'd just tell the buyer to ****off. What a loon! How dare she try to blackmail you in this way. You sold the horse its not yours any more. Tell her to do what she likes and that its nothing to do with you any more.

 

[Goldenstar]

I'd just tell the buyer to ****off. What a loon! How dare she try to blackmail you in this way. You sold the horse its not yours any more. Tell her to do what she likes and that its nothing to do with you any more.

The risk with this approach is that it ends in court with no guarantee of it going OP's way that the gamble to you have to take.
We might look at this and say silly buyer call her buff but as BHW's post proves it might not go OP's way.

 

[Penny Less]

What happened to Buyer Beware ? Horse was sold as seen, buyer accepted this, cant see how she could win in court?

 

[Goldenstar]

What happened to Buyer Beware ? Horse was sold as seen, buyer accepted this, cant see how she could win in court?

You can't see it but the buyer might win that's why if OP goes that route she needs to start with the lawyers now.