Solihull rant- is it right that Time Pens are so influential at lower levels?

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avthechav

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Went to Solihull to do the RC novice area today. I am sooooo pleased with my lovely pony!!!!!- a bit of a poor dressage with a shocking 40(!!) still left us about halfway down the class :-). I was really really really worried by the SJ but my lovely pony managed a DC with 8tf time pens. (These were circled on the results board). I am over the moon as a DC has been a long time coming!:D

..now here is the first thing- BDWP have my actual time as being about 8 faults for 20 secs over the time :confused:. Av is a gallopy racehorse, she tanked round, we took good lines, the short route through the water but were slightly held up by another competitor at the end of the course who has a stop and we caught up with but wouldnt get out of my way!!- so it looks like they submit all their times to BD as the OT if 0 Time pens, and what ever time corresponds to your time pens they calculate as too slow rather than calculating too fast....I have looked back through the BDWP solihull results are I am unable to find any tf time pens.

Second thing.....Last time i went there (3 weeks ago), I was the only person across both (small) PN sections to not have time faults. If you look at their results they only have a very very small proportion of their competitors finish within the times, (4 out of the 30 competitors finishing in RC Novice section A and 5 out of the 29 competitors finishing in RC Novice section B). These figures are not a great deal better for the BE event either....I personally think that it is unfair for time to have such an influence on the result...IMO you should be punished for trotting round or being unsafe, you should NOT have only 15% of competitors or less completing on 0 faults.

.....thought? (Pimms if you have read this!)x
 
Firstly ... Well Done on what sounds like a fab result!!

As far as the influence of time faults goes eventing is a sport built around the cross country so it would seem right that those combinations that can cope with the desired speed (so not too fast or two slow) that should be rewarded with top results ...
 
WoopsiiD said:
Ah Avthechav.....I saw your round. A few of you were caught by that competitor?
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...were you competing?...there were a few people who i spoke to who had also caught up with the one in front due to the front competitor having stops and none seemed to either get out of the way or be asked by fence judges to move. One of my team mates whose ex racehorse has never had a time pen at BE had 20 time faults!!- they complained and this was halved.


pinktiger said:
If its circled does that not mean you went too fast????
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I thought so, and tbf if there were loads of people going too fast Av would certainly be one...(although not unsafely so she just likes to travel :D), so thats why i can only assume that Solihull have converted my 8 circles time pens to 8 time pens in their calculation for their results upload.?
 
harrietadams said:
Firstly ... Well Done on what sounds like a fab result!!

As far as the influence of time faults goes eventing is a sport built around the cross country so it would seem right that those combinations that can cope with the desired speed (so not too fast or two slow) that should be rewarded with top results ...
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thanks harriet- we were thrilled!!, I see your point and I guess I agree to a certain extent. I think that you need to be certain that the timing is fair I guess- one person today had 60 jumping faults and 0 time pens!:rolleyes:
 
avthechav said:
thanks harriet- we were thrilled!!, I see your point and I guess I agree to a certain extent. I think that you need to be certain that the timing is fair I guess- one person today had 60 jumping faults and 0 time pens!:rolleyes:
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Agreed ... that doesn't seem right!! the whole timing issue is such a lottery until you can wear a watch at BE novice. It may be that at an unaffiliated there is less consistency with the scoring - usually there is less experience in the scorers tent, but i do get your frustration having had the same sort of thing happen to me - lovely clear xc with many many TF faults despite being completely in control and at a comfortable pace!!
 
The time for RC Novice is ridiculously slow. Last year I did a BE90 round Richmond, comfortably inside the time. A fortnight later I did the RC Novice qualifier round exactly the same track in what I felt was the same time - I'd actually tried to go a bit slower! I got 10TF faults :rolleyes:.

If you're making the time at BE100 you'll be miles too quick for the RC Novice (and probably Intermediate!) times.
 
Gamebird said:
The time for RC Novice is ridiculously slow. Last year I did a BE90 round Richmond, comfortably inside the time. A fortnight later I did the RC Novice qualifier round exactly the same track in what I felt was the same time - I'd actually tried to go a bit slower! I got 10TF faults :rolleyes:.

If you're making the time at BE100 you'll be miles too quick for the RC Novice (and probably Intermediate!) times.
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Well thats a relief tbh i will just kinda ignore timings at RC in future as Av is comfy, safe and secure at the speed we go and thats all that matters to be at the moment!
...I really dont know why RC dont just follow the BE timing etc...I also think that its crazy that they dont adjust their timingt when there are so many time pens! It does seem tho that Time pens are rather liberally applied at solihull though..even at BE! :confused:
 
RC Nov is 450 m/m and RC int is 475 m/m so speeds correspond to BE90 and BE100 respectively.
At our area's today the scorers circled the pens that had been caused by riders going too fast. OP do you know what yiur actual time was ans what the opt time was?
 
Zebedee said:
RC Nov is 450 m/m and RC int is 475 m/m so speeds correspond to BE90 and BE100 respectively.
At our area's today the scorers circled the pens that had been caused by riders going too fast. OP do you know what yiur actual time was ans what the opt time was?
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Ah Zebedee I should have know that u would know the rules :D, well OT was 5.56, and i had 8.8tf circled on score board. On BDWP they say that my time was 6.18!!! ( I know that often things can seem deceptive when you are actually competing and time slips away quickly) but there is absolutely no way on a gallopy racehorse that did not wobble or stop, and took the quick routes that we were that far outside of the time, and also that far behind other people who were on slower warmblood types that usually do not make the time BE.

I think tbh I have 2 issues here and not really with the RC:
1) That solihull are not recording their results on BDWP accurately- all time pens are assumed to be too slow and all 0 time pens are given the OT as their recorded time. (Now i guess this doesnt matter at all except that it makes your clear look very wobbley on record if you are on a quick horse but are clear in a very slow recorded time...if u get my meaning)
2) Are they measuring the course accurately/ fairly if they only have a very few people coming in with 0 time pens time and time again?
 
The timings might be the same but the course wheeling doesn't ever seem to follow the 'racing line' like BE do! I did the same this year in the Int - 5pens at BE round the BE100 track, well inside the time round an identical track a fortnight later for the RC Int Qual. There was a 10-15sec difference in the posted optimum time for an identical track.
 
meardsall_millie said:
That's correct - 22 seconds over the OT equals 8.8 pens.

You can't get 8.8 for going too fast as the penalties are 1 per second so will always be a whole number.

I would guess the circle round the number was a mistake.
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Thanks for the calculation Millie :D...in that case their timing must have been all OVER the shop...especially bearing in mind we were the only combo within the time at the PN there the other week....or I had better resign myself to a lifetime of being WAY over time as there is no way that I am going faster!! :p

hmmmm well it seems that something strange has happened- never mind, Av was brill, I had a lovely day and a very nice ice cream- life is good!!x
 
Hi

Not read all the replys but we did it today and I timed Beatle with both ponies she was too fast with Flossy and was 3sec under with Amber, but if you look at the results Flossy got 3.6 for going to slow, but on the score board it was circled as too fast...... So wrongly inputted on computer? Also if you look at the results everyone who made the time was put on the results online as on the time..... Which is not going to happen ok maybe the odd one but not everyone would be on the time.

Re time lots were too fast and Beatle about trotted round the int level on Amber and made the time.
 
We're fairly new to eventing in the UK, and it was only the other week that I learnt that stopwatches were not allowed at lower levels. I found this quite surprising since our kids have competed in France, where they learnt to use a stop watch with course minute markers from their very first competitions at age 10 and 11. I guess we are talking something similar to BE80. I think this provided good training and a means for them to make small adjustments to their pace based on the conditions. I can see the arguments against charging round the course and then trotting the last 100 meters, but the markers do seem to help them regulate their pace.
 
I was there yesterday too and they have def uploaded to bdwp incorrectly. Times on the score sheets that were too fast were circled (my bf took a picture of our score sheet as I somehow managed to beat the 2 4* riders in my section and he was chuffed!) The people that had circled times on the score sheet have been uploaded as too slow on bdwp
 
Doesn't surprise me at all that timings and results at Solihull are questionable especially for a RC event!!!!!
 
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