Solutions treeless - how does it look?

pootleperkin

pootleperkin

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So, I took Pie-face up to my friend's school this afternoon to try and have another test drive of the saddle. I have it rented at the mo' but would like to make a decision by the end of this week, so that the rental cost doesn't add up (£50 a week! eek!)

Anyway, I do feel like I am more in balance with her than in any other saddle I have tried and she does seem more relaxed in it, but it is very difficult to tell when Miss-Tarty pants is doing her best to show off to the two geldings in the field adjacent to the the arena.

We did have a bit slippage at one point in canter, when she decided that making like a corkscrew would definately make her more attractive to the opposite sex, but I guess I'm not too worried, 'cos it slipped as it is treeless and she's a prat, rather than slipping because it's got a tree in it that doesn't fit her shape, if you catch my drift.

Anyway, here's a pic - thought people in the know might tell me how it looks. When I tried it, we shimmed it at the back, as I felt like it wasn't quite level and then it was fine, but today I wanted to try it without and used a sheepskin half pad instead, and it felt fine to ride in, but might 'look' and also feel better with the shims I guess.

Any comments? As far as I can remember, the fitter said that it wasn't so essential that the seat was level in the treeless. Certainly the shims do correct it. Also, when my great bulk sits on it, it gets squashed too.

skytreeless.jpg
 
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I've got one on trial too, the Smart GP. I'm having issues with not feeling straight in the saddle, which, when I rode in my barefoot, I didn't have. I do feel rather above the horse too, and when I have the saddle cloth with large shims attached, my inner thigh got sore within a mile of hacking out. Not what I expected.
 
You've got too much under the saddle (lose the furry thing :)) and while the fitter says it shouldn't look level, you tend to sit further back in a solution saddle rather than in the centre, so I generally find the saddle needs to look slightly raised behind before you get on it.

It most certainly shouldn't slip, but it will if you have too much underneath, have it blocked so it sits too high above the horse, or if you have a slippy material on your saddle cloth. I've never had one slip on all shapes and sizes of horse in 7 years. I always use a breastplate with them just in case, and on rounder horses I have used a piece of chamois leather under the saddle cloth as well.

There are reasons I prefer the original solution saddles rather than the SMART, which is trying to look traditional to appease the market and loses some of the benefits of the original models. Don't forget they are not meant to perch you above the horse like a treed saddle.

When I'm fitting I tend to to fit to the horse first, then put the rider up and fit to the rider, so I have a whole bunch of shims ready which I can slip under the saddle (often with the rider still on board) and when I get the correct fit and the rider is happy with the feel, you can then put the shims into the DS pad, or into the slots in the saddle, and away you go. You will have to alter the shimming as your horse changes shape and develops muscles where he didn't have them before :)
 
cundlegreen said:
I've got one on trial too, the Smart GP. I'm having issues with not feeling straight in the saddle, which, when I rode in my barefoot, I didn't have. I do feel rather above the horse too, and when I have the saddle cloth with large shims attached, my inner thigh got sore within a mile of hacking out. Not what I expected.
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None of this sounds right. Firstly it sounds as if you've too much under the saddle as you shouldn't feel perched above the horse, and secondly if you're not feeling straight I would have a look at your horse's back from above and behind and check out its musculature. It may be that the horse isn't even on both sides. It's perfectly ok to use the shims to balance yourself out while the horse develops, so you could use an extra shim under one seat bone to level yourself out.

Having said all that, I can't ride in the SMART saddles without feeling extremely uncomfortable, but I've got 4 of the originals and wouldn't upgrade if they came free!! You may be happier with one of those.
 
Cheers all.

Cundle (& Rowreach) - I'm not having those issues at all. I hacked out the other day (with the shims and not the fluffy thing :) ! ) and found it very comfortable. I defo don't feel above the horse or perched - as I say, this saddle has made me feel more in balance and with the horse than anything else I have ridden in. I have to note I felt a little twisted to the right in the sadle halfway through the hack, but discovered stirrups weren't quite level and that corrected it. I was also being very nitpicky to try and assess the saddle.

Rowreach, I really loved the Energist, but my OH much preferred the feel and 'security' of the Smart, and the horse is supposed to be for him to hack out in, so hey ho. I'll be happy with anything that makes me feel like I can 'ride' her in balance and doesn't mean that the girth should be cutting her in half. TBH, when the saddle slipped to day I could get rather a lot of hand behind the girth, so I didn it up a hole and seemed better.

Bearskin, I agree with you, but I guess I was trying to persuade myself that I wouldn't need to velcro stuff onto my saddlecloth every time we rode! OK, so shims need to go back on the sticky saddlecloth and we go from there. Having a lesson in the next couple of days, so will try to get some more photos and a bit of vid.
 
All of them!! Personally I find them too rigid (which is ironic when you think that the premise behind Solution Saddles is that they are "rigid-free") and they give me back ache and a sore front bone (if that's not TMI lol!). The SMART was developed because customers wanted something that looked more traditional, but I love the originals. I particularly like the Freestyle and the Jumper, but I've got a couple of GPs as well.

From the look of your saddle I'd say that when you sit on it (and you are right when you say it will squash down) you are tipping forward. You need more support under your bum which will lift you through the pelvis and give you a better feel.
 
I agree PF - Will post some pics with the shims under it when I next ride. I just wanted to try it today without to see if it might feel ok without (and it did - actually not much in way of tipping forward, which is an old habit - too much light seat on a young horse b - in fact friend said that I am more upright in this than anything else she has seen me ride Pie-face in), but from what I remember, the feeling was better with shims. I was actually q shocked when I saw how tilted back it was, but you know, I thought I would experiment!

Rowreach - I think it is lovely and comfortable! I could understand why you might feel more uncomfortable on your 'front bone' (!) though if you are not used to higher saddles - one of the things that I noticed about the energist was that there was no support in the 'triangle' between your 'fb' (otherwise known as the pubic arch?) and inner thigh, which was weird, but quite nice!
 
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I have a dressage and jump solution saddle. I also couldn't cope with the velcroing of the shims and found it really difficult to use, so the company made us up a pad balanced how we needed it, in a black cover like a prolite with no velcro, that I just place on between the thin saddlecloth and the saddle. I would ask them to make it large though as initially they made a very narrow one and I found the saddle sat on the edge of it.
 
Hi Rachel,

Oh, that's interesting! I just find it a bit of a pain that every time I use the saddle I'll have to use a pad with velcro on it. However, I'm now thinkning that I could make something like you decribe above, using the existing shims (or indeed get them to make one.

Thanks!
 
The original saddles are balanced using a dorsal supplement pad (either standard or front wedge) in a black cotton cover with a velcro opening along the seam so that you can add or take away shims and balance it for each individual horse and rider. I use the double sided diy tape (99p in Poundland) and stick the ds pad to the underside of the saddle once I've balanced it the way I want it. This makes tacking up a whole lot easier and quicker, and the tape lasts a couple of weeks and then I replace it. You do need to keep checking the pads and shims inside the cover to make sure nothing has shifted.
 
I fit treed rather than treeless but it certainly looks too low at the back to me. Bear in mind that the thicker the pad the more it lifts the front more than the back of the saddle, so you almost always need more shims on a thick pad than on a thin one when lifting the cantle.
 
Yep Cundle, it is her conformation at present - I'm not keen on where the girth has to sit either. I was chatting to Rowreach about this - she is very out of shape and tummy-ish - when she is fitter and her tummy muscles tighten up, she is much flatter through the stomach and the girth can move back slightly, and more in alignment. Any saddle we have tried on her does this - to have the girth hanging straight down, the saddle would have to be well up over her wither at present.
 
In my experience the girth will sit in the girth groove, no matter what. If the saddle stays back it is no problem, if it pulls it forwards then it is more of an issue, clearly. I can't see that losing weight will make much difference - she has a forward girth groove. If the saddle is being pushed forwards then a point strap would help but clearly there's no such thing on a treeless, but also that would improve a little if she lost weight - that wide rear ribcage pushes forwards on the girth straps.

I would recommend a longer girth - the ends are very low, very near the elbow and on very sensitive muscles on the ribcage.

Also double check that the saddle is in balance in trot - at the moment it is still a little cantle low, but that is very common and when the horse lifts its back in trot the saddle will be in balance.
 
Sbloom (feels bad using an impersonal user name!) - the saddle doesn't move, so it isn't an issue.

I will get a longer girth too - that is one that we had to hand and has been used while the saddle is on rental.

All does seem in balance in trot too - she really does lift when she moves - that was the problem the initial saddler had with the treed saddle we tried, what fitted her at rest didn't when she moved, to be simplistic about it.

Thanks for all the help :)
 
Horses need fitting with flatter trees than most people think - as you found with treed saddles dynamic fit is everything. Horse lift and flatten their back in work so I firmly believe there should be a tiny bit of bridging when the horse is standing with no rider. Anything that sits perfectly into the curve of the horse's back when static will rock once the back is lifted and flattened. Going to narrow will stop it, but going flatter is obviously the correct solution :)
 
sbloom said:
Horses need fitting with flatter trees than most people think - as you found with treed saddles dynamic fit is everything. Horse lift and flatten their back in work so I firmly believe there should be a tiny bit of bridging when the horse is standing with no rider. Anything that sits perfectly into the curve of the horse's back when static will rock once the back is lifted and flattened. Going to narrow will stop it, but going flatter is obviously the correct solution :)
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This would make a good case for the reactor panel saddle then, what are your thoughts on those??
 
It's the saddle I own, though it's actually fitted in the very same way as most saddles - a tiny smidge of bridging in the middle. Our company is in an unpleasant legal situation with the UK agent for ReactorPanel (we used to be part of the same company), so unfortunately I cannot, hand on heart, recommend the saddle/company. As always, do your research on customer experience.

RP have a variety of trees, and the tree still determines a certain amount of the fit - there are flatter trees, and there are some very deep seats that still won't work on very flat backs, even with the panel system. They don't suit every horse, certainly don't suit every rider, though if you find one you both like, if you are confident to learn to adjust it yourself (as I did before I trained as a fitter), then it's worth considering.

A traditional saddle, well fitted, should achieve pretty much the same thing, especially if you're not doing 100 miles :). And a fair bit more cheaply!
 
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