Some advice please :(

[sarahfifee]

Hi all,
If anyone saw my last post you’ll know my horse Beau who I’ve only had for 2 months had to have a tooth removed through his cheek earlier this month. This unfortunately did lead to quite bad sinusitis and has even infected some of the bone. The vet has just phoned me to say on top of all this they’ve found some rare fungal mucus in his gutteral pouch which is now a third serious condition. The vet’s given me a rough estimation of around £8000, with over a years rest and there’s not even guaranteed success. I’m absolutely heartbroken he seemed fine last week ? can I have some advice please on what you would do in this situation? He’s only 10

 

[ycbm]

What horrible news to get at Christmas!

The place to start is - can you afford £8,000? Then - is it money you are prepared to spend? Thirdly ‐ can you cope with a year's rest?

I'm very sorry but in that situation my answers would be yes to the first, and no to the second for a horse I've only owned weeks, and I would have him PTS if he can't be kept comfortable and in work on palliative care.

I hope you manage to have some sort of a Christmas.
.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

Gosh, I’ve nothing helpful to say but didn’t want to read and run. That sounds really awful for your boy, I really hope it doesn’t run to that much for you, I will say a prayer he can be sorted soon and be fully recovered soon and you can start to enjoy time together.

 

[sarahfifee]

Thank you I’m not sure whether something can be done because the sinusitis developed due to a bit of the infected tooth being left behind, so was set up to fail from the start. He seemed perfectly healthy apart from a fractured tooth and now ended up with this going to get a 2nd and 3rd opinion from other vets I think just so confused how it’s ended up here

 

[Uliy]

I’m so sorry this is happening to you - I’ve spent a huge amount on money on my horse’s sinusitis, and I’ve only had her since September. I’d never come across it or possibly even heard of it before I bought her.

I don’t want to give you false hope, but please do get a second opinion - I was told last week that my girl might also need to be PTS, but my vet spoke to someone with a lot more experience who told her that there was no reason to make that decision yet and, at least for now, I can treat her like a normal horse.

I hope you experience a similar Christmas miracle x

 

[JennBags]

I'm so sorry, what difficult decisions you need to make. Do you have insurance and can you afford the operation is the first question?

I knew a horse who had a similar thing, half his bone had to be cut away. I don't know his long term prognosis as he moved away from our yard shortly afterwards but I don't recall if being a particularly positive outcome, I'm not sure if something else happened to him or if he just didn't really ever recover.

Definitely get a second opinion.

 

[PurBee]

Getting a 2nd and 3rd opinion from other vets is a good idea.

Is the left-over bit of infected tooth been extracted now or still in place?

Is the 8k quote to remove this infected bit Of tooth?

Thats an almighty amount of money to quote for infected tooth and infection treatment. Afterall, if it had been fully removed properly in the first place, these secondary infections since the op would likely be a lot less.

Do you have insurance....is this a case for suing for negligence? These are questions id investigate.

Even with humans, the chance of complications from a piece of infected tooth root remaining are numerous so dentists prefer to operate to get it all out, and will notice upon extraction if all roots of the tooth are present or a piece still remaining.

Certainly get other professional opinions on his case.

In the meantime i’d be supporting his immune system with vit A,C,E, selenium, zinc, vit D. Aswell as a broad spectrum probiotic. They’re nutrients which will aid his body’s natural ability to keep fighting off infectious bacteria around the op/sinuses.

I presume he’s had antibiotics and the like, so his gut flora needs supporting to re-populate what the antibiotics kill off.

Wishing you luck and strength. X

 

[Antw23uk]

I'd want a 2nd opinion and also discuss with the vets exactly what is going to cost 8k! Are they showing any hint that they are at fault here leaving a bit of tooth in after an extraction? Keep asking how, HOW can it cost this much, HOW? They are very likely to explain it all easily but you have to ask and feel comfortable that 8k isnt just some random figure they have come up with!

So sorry to hear this bad news, heart-breaking for you For me, gosh, awful situation but i think i would be calling it a day!

 

[sarahfifee]

Yeah he’s insured with Petplan but still waiting to hear if they will cover the fractured tooth extraction because they wanted a dental record of the last 2 years but I’ve only had him 2 months, going to give them a call on Monday/Tuesday and chase them up.
I’m going to argue it’s unfair I have to pay for the sinusitis treatment because it came from the left behind infected tooth, just gutted because the vet’s said it’s likely to be chronic going to go tomorrow and note everything they say and take it to get a 2nd opinion
My friend and I are so confused and annoyed it’s gotten to this because he seemed a perfectly healthy horse before he went into the vet hospital! He would’ve been better off with the fractured tooth. My friend thinks they’ve really messed up somewhere I’m heartbroken for my poor horse

 

[TPO]

So sorry for your news and have liked the posts in empathy rather than liking them.

Good luck with the insurance and the second opinion.

 

[sarahfifee]

Beau is my first horse so I’m really not experienced with all the vet stuff, will I be able to argue that I shouldn’t have to pay for the sinusitis treatment because he admitted it’s their fault Beau has it from the left behind infected tooth? Or is this just the risks that come with it?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would expect that you signed some sort of disclaimer before Beau had his operation exonerating the vet from the effects of complications from the op but look carefully at the wording and I would at least try to negotiate a lower price for removing the rest of the tooth. Saying it's chronic makes it sound as if they are going to leave the fragment in situ. I think you might need legal advice about how to deal with the vets if your insurance company won't pay. Do ask the previous owner for access to his dental records though, if that is what PetPlan want to see.

I am so sorry that your first venture into horse ownership has gone so badly wrong, so soon but I think that you haven't got all the info yet and need to do that before coming to any decision.

 

[irishdraft]

What terrible bad luck OP with your first horse. I think I would be doing some serious research about the conditions your vets have said your horse has so you are in a position to ask pertinent questions it sounds from what you say they have not done a satisfactory job and now seem to be quoting a huge amount of money for treatment. If you are not satisfied with their answers please get another opinion . I hope you can find a way through this.

 

[sarahfifee]

I would expect that you signed some sort of disclaimer before Beau had his operation exonerating the vet from the effects of complications from the op but look carefully at the wording and I would at least try to negotiate a lower price for removing the rest of the tooth. Saying it's chronic makes it sound as if they are going to leave the fragment in situ. I think you might need legal advice about how to deal with the vets if your insurance company won't pay. Do ask the previous owner for access to his dental records though, if that is what PetPlan want to see.

I am so sorry that your first venture into horse ownership has gone so badly wrong, so soon but I think that you haven't got all the info yet and need to do that before coming to any decision.

I’ve just checked over what I signed and it doesn’t say anything about vets not being liable for any complications etc which is good, going to go tomorrow and ask for a lot more detail on what’s happened! Thank you

 

[sarahfifee]

What terrible bad luck OP with your first horse. I think I would be doing some serious research about the conditions your vets have said your horse has so you are in a position to ask pertinent questions it sounds from what you say they have not done a satisfactory job and now seem to be quoting a huge amount of money for treatment. If you are not satisfied with their answers please get another opinion . I hope you can find a way through this.

Thank you I will do, definitely going to get a 2nd opinion from the lead equine vet at the practice Beau’s registered with I have a little bit more hope now ??

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Thank you I will do, definitely going to get a 2nd opinion from the lead equine vet at the practice Beau’s registered with I have a little bit more hope now ??

We used to have an elderly cob, who had been with us a long time. A young vet came to do routine vaccs and told us that she had a heart problem, which would be life-limiting. Long story short, after a dentist vet came and said that the cob had no hear problem that she could find, we got the senior vet from the first practice out who confirmed that she had no heart problems. If any diagnosis was a surprise to me, I would always get a 2nd opinion now.

 

[Wishfilly]

I've got no useful advice, but this sounds like a tough situation, especially at this time of year.

I hope you get a second opinion with more positive news.

 

[PurBee]

The idea with deep infected tissue, of any kind, that’s being operated on for removal, is to remove ALL of it. Guidance from radiographs and scans aid the surgical excision and complete removal. Your horse has some remaining, and with teeth, human or animal, the main risk is part of the root breaking off and remaining behind. Especially if removing a tooth that’s already going through necrosis/infection.

Is this negligence or just ‘part of the risk’? Would an equine solicitor be able to offer you advice for this scenario?

 

[Griffin]

I echo other posters and I would definitely get a second opinion. Personally, I would want that second opinion from a vet at another practice. I have done this myself and I was just honest with the second vet about seeking another opinion for my own peace of mind.

I would definitely query why you are being charged so much when this should have all been removed the first time. If you're a gold BHS member, I wonder if their advice line would be able to help?

In addition, I would not be making any quick decisions if your horse is reasonably comfortable at the moment. Seek a second opinion and get all your options ready to assess. Good luck, I hope 2021 is brighter for you both.

 

[asmp]

I‘m pretty sure the fungal guttural pouch condition is something I’ve heard of before. The horse got through it and is still competing. If you want to know more about it I can contact the owner to ask if she‘ll talk to you about it.

 

[Kipper's Dick]

OP, did the vet actually admit liability for this? If so, the Veterinary Defence Society would indemnify the case. Which is the equivalent of professional insurance on behalf of the vet.

 

[sarahfifee]

The idea with deep infected tissue, of any kind, that’s being operated on for removal, is to remove ALL of it. Guidance from radiographs and scans aid the surgical excision and complete removal. Your horse has some remaining, and with teeth, human or animal, the main risk is part of the root breaking off and remaining behind. Especially if removing a tooth that’s already going through necrosis/infection.

Is this negligence or just ‘part of the risk’? Would an equine solicitor be able to offer you advice for this scenario?

Think I’m going to get BHS gold membership just now and try and speak to someone tomorrow about whether it will come under negligence on their part

 

[sarahfifee]

I echo other posters and I would definitely get a second opinion. Personally, I would want that second opinion from a vet at another practice. I have done this myself and I was just honest with the second vet about seeking another opinion for my own peace of mind.

I would definitely query why you are being charged so much when this should have all been removed the first time. If you're a gold BHS member, I wonder if their advice line would be able to help?

In addition, I would not be making any quick decisions if your horse is reasonably comfortable at the moment. Seek a second opinion and get all your options ready to assess. Good luck, I hope 2021 is brighter for you both.

Thank you, he seemed fine just a few days ago so I’m not going to rush into any decisions until I’ve gotten a 2nd opinion & going to get in touch with BHS

 

[AmyMay]

You won’t be able to speak to anyone until Monday.

 

[sarahfifee]

I‘m pretty sure the fungal guttural pouch condition is something I’ve heard of before. The horse got through it and is still competing. If you want to know more about it I can contact the owner to ask if she‘ll talk to you about it.

That would be great thank you as I’ve never heard of it before, it’s guttural pouch mycosis I’m sure

 

[sarahfifee]

OP, did the vet actually admit liability for this? If so, the Veterinary Defence Society would indemnify the case. Which is the equivalent of professional insurance on behalf of the vet.

Yes, he said to me that the sinusitis has occurred because of a particle left behind when they removed the infected tooth

 

[Kipper's Dick]

Then I think I would pursue this angle with your vet. He could decide to extract the bit of infected tooth left behind, and drain the sinus, as a 'courtesy' operation. Or he could approach the Veterinary Defence Society for financial recompense to you. Most vets actually hate doing this, but that's what they are there for.
I am so sorry you are in this situation.

 

[mossycup]

Hello! I know of a horse who had the same - teeth issues, sinusitis, then a weird fungal infection. The cost to treat was probably in that sort of region all in with hospital stays/having a drain inserted/x rays/vet visits/medication etc but he only needed a few months off

 

[sarahfifee]

Then I think I would pursue this angle with your vet. He could decide to extract the bit of infected tooth left behind, and drain the sinus, as a 'courtesy' operation. Or he could approach the Veterinary Defence Society for financial recompense to you. Most vets actually hate doing this, but that's what they are there for.
I am so sorry you are in this situation.

Thank you I wasn’t aware that existed! Will definitely try that route

 

[sarahfifee]

Hello! I know of a horse who had the same - teeth issues, sinusitis, then a weird fungal infection. The cost to treat was probably in that sort of region all in with hospital stays/having a drain inserted/x rays/vet visits/medication etc but he only needed a few months off

That’s amazing to hear thank you so much x