Some bad news

[competitiondiva]

Some of you may have followed my previous posts regarding my mare. Well to catch those who haven't up, I have my one in a million horse, with good confo, fantastic temprament, will turn her hand to anything and has given me 10 years of competition joy, in xc, sj, dressage and riding horse show classes. She's not done anything to any high level, the highest being qualifying for the pet plan finals in her first couple of outings in prelim, but never got to compete at the finals.

Anyway last may she was diagnosed with early arthritic changes in her hocks and coffins (at 15 years old) these changes were miniscule (sp?) and joint injections seem to have worked, but she also strained her collateral ligaments in one of her coffin joints after competing on extremely uneven ground with the arthritic changes to weaken it. So we've done everything to try and get this condition sorted, costing somewhere over the £2500 mark. But despite making progress she's just not coming fully sound, been to the vets again today and the vet has basically said that's about it now, she's happy for me to hack her out in walk as she's only about 1 tenth lame. But nothing more than that.

So the choice is retire her at 16, keep her ticking over in walk and hope one day she might fully recover, or breed from her (vet suggested this as a future for her, I asked if the lameness issue would be at all hereditary, and she said definately not).

This is her pedigree:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/indian+blue

She's not graded as I never intended to breed commercially from her. She produced a large colt to TMovistar in 2009 who scored first premium at the futurity who I still own and he will be taking over from his mum once old enough! (thank goodness!)
This is the mare:

Basically is there a market for foals from mares with only part parentage, as long as I use a proven stallion (i.e well known name)? Would I be foolish to breed with the intent that the foal would be to sell when the market is so crap, bearing in mind that I won't be doing it until 2012 to save up! Or should I just keep her as a big pet!!!??? Your thoughts would be greatfully received...............

 

[AmyMay]

Keep her as a big pet. She clearly owes you nothing.

 

[millitiger]

If she was mine I would keep her as a big pet and not put her in foal.

 

[DRSsporthorses]

No advice, but what a gorgeous mare.

 

[competitiondiva]

No advice, but what a gorgeous mare.

Thank you so much, holding back the tears here!!! She's my baby and has been such a fab competition horse, I'm sure her record is intact over 10 years of competing and not coming home without a rossette!!! I will really miss not competing her, but am thankfully in the best position at this time for this to have happened as the YO has offered one of her horses for me to compete in the meantime and having her son growing into a lovely looking horse that I can't wait to get started with. I am the luckiest person to have had her in my life and given me so much, no she owes me nothing, the only reason I ask about breeding is that she was a very good mum and produced a quality foal.

 

[LittleWildOne]

Hi, I'm sorry to hear about your mare's arthritis. I would be inclined to not breed from her as
A - the arthritis is in her hocks, the weight of a stallion covering her would cause her pain. Even if AI is used, she would still have to carry the extra weight of an unborn foal for 11 months.
B - Arthritis can be hereditary so for this reason alone, I would not breed from her.
C - You mention in another thread that your 2 year old (your mare's son ?) had an unexplained lameness.
All of the above would set my alarm bells ringing. Although it may never happen, is it really fair to breed another horse with potential lameness issues, based on your mares diagnosed arthritis and your 2 year olds lameness ?
I have arthritis myself and the pain can be unbearable at times. Your mare looks lovely, but I would have concerns about breeding from her.
You have had many years of enjoyment with her, and to reward that I would be inclined to keep her as a pet. Some light hacking would help to keep her arthritic joints mobile

 

[traceyann]

About the lameness have you tried irap my horse had it at nineteen severe collatral ligament problems as well as djd he know sound oh and he also had to go barefoot worth a try if you have insurance left. What a lovely mare she will produce stunning foals without doubt

 

[competitiondiva]

Hi, I'm sorry to hear about your mare's arthritis. I would be inclined to not breed from her as
A - the arthritis is in her hocks, the weight of a stallion covering her would cause her pain. Even if AI is used, she would still have to carry the extra weight of an unborn foal for 11 months.
B - Arthritis can be hereditary so for this reason alone, I would not breed from her.
C - You mention in another thread that your 2 year old (your mare's son ?) had an unexplained lameness.
All of the above would set my alarm bells ringing. Although it may never happen, is it really fair to breed another horse with potential lameness issues, based on your mares diagnosed arthritis and your 2 year olds lameness ?
I have arthritis myself and the pain can be unbearable at times. Your mare looks lovely, but I would have concerns about breeding from her.
You have had many years of enjoyment with her, and to reward that I would be inclined to keep her as a pet. Some light hacking would help to keep her arthritic joints mobile

The 2 year old came out lame on thurs, vet suspected foot abscess, gave a.b injection he stayed the same for the next 2 days then started to get better, took him to the vet today and he's completely sound again thankfully, looks like there may have been an abscess starting and a.b. knocked it on the head. I agree about the arthritis but vet said that a)there would be no welfare implication on the mare and b)there was nothing in the lameness that was hereditary to pass onto the foal, the arthritis changes are very small and the age of the horse isn't particularly young especially having had an active life, the main issue is the damage to the collateral ligament which is causing her to retire from competition/work. But I take what you say on board.

 

[ihatework]

If you were wanting to breed another for yourself I would say yes.
If you are breeding to sell then personally I wouldn't.
The market is poor, you are unlikely to even cover the costs, plus any pregnancy carries a risk to the mare.
Keep her as an overgrown pet!

 

[eventrider23]

Personally, if you can just keep her as a companion that is what I would do. Pedigree wise she is not commercial enough as a broodie, especially when you see foals out of graded competition mares selling for pittances and so for her own sake I would not breed from her. In addition with the arthritis i would imagine the strain of breeding may actually end up making this worse for her and what with not being able to get the foal out for 11 months, might cause her more harm than good in the long run.

 

[competitiondiva]

About the lameness have you tried irap my horse had it at nineteen severe collatral ligament problems as well as djd he know sound oh and he also had to go barefoot worth a try if you have insurance left. What a lovely mare she will produce stunning foals without doubt

Thank you for this information, I've sent an email with a link to the site to my vet and will wait and see what they say. Many thanks again. And thanks to everyones input, x

 

[hobo]

Just an add on regarding possible abscess in two year old, it is usually best to find the abscess first before antibiotics as they can return. It is the time of year for them and my blacksmith just dug my mares out today, so i have the joy's of politicing & antibiotics as well. Mine had probably trod on something, i think she heard the saddle stuffer was coming and work would comance soon!!

 

[LittleWildOne]

The 2 year old came out lame on thurs, vet suspected foot abscess, gave a.b injection he stayed the same for the next 2 days then started to get better, took him to the vet today and he's completely sound again thankfully, looks like there may have been an abscess starting and a.b. knocked it on the head. I agree about the arthritis but vet said that a)there would be no welfare implication on the mare and b)there was nothing in the lameness that was hereditary to pass onto the foal, the arthritis changes are very small and the age of the horse isn't particularly young especially having had an active life, the main issue is the damage to the collateral ligament which is causing her to retire from competition/work. But I take what you say on board.

I'm glad your 2 year old has recovered
I hope you don't mind but I would just like to explain a little about arthritis .
First of all, arthritis is a progressive, degenerative condition. It won't ever get better, but there is a lot you can do to slow the process and relieve the pain/discomfort. Don't worry about what I have written below, I'm just trying best to explain what arthritis is and how it affects the body. . Understanding arthritis can help to manage the condition in the best way possible.
Basically, the cartilage covering the ends of the joints starts to wear with use. The cartilage acts as a smooth surface to protect the joints where contact is made. Each part of the joint glides smoothly over this protective layer of cartilage. This initial stage of "wear and tear" doesn't normally cause pain, so can go undetected for years.
After this initial stage of arthritis, secondary degenerative changes mean the cartilage wears away leaving the bones of the affected joint surfaces in direct contact with each other. With the loss of the protective layer of cartilage, this then causes the bone surfaces to rub together and cause pain or discomfort. The pain/discomfort occurs as the bone surface wears and exposes tiny blood vessels within the bone. This causes inflamation within and around the affected joint, which is the body's way of protecting what it sees as an injury (think of a broken bone). The body then tries to "repair" the "injury" by laying down calcium deposits around the affected joint (the body is trying to splint the "break" in the bone). Due to the nature of joints and their continual movement, these calcium deposits also wear away and leave "bone spurs" around the joint. These bony spurs can catch against each other, or the edges of the joint, whenever the joint moves. Muscles and ligaments around the arthritic joints change the way they work, to compensate for the restricted use of the affected joint. Think of this as another way the body tries to "splint" the "injury". If your mare has arthritic changes in her hock and coffin joints, this could explain the collateral ligament damage (under more strain because of the arthritic joints). My arthritis caused a disc prolapse which was bad enough to need surgery.
The best way to manage secondary arthritic changes is regular light exercise, a good diet to maintain an optimum weight (not fat, not thin),avoid standing around for long periods on a hard surface (that causes the joints to get inflamed and triggers muscle spasms in any muscle related to that joint ).
For a horse, as much turnout as possible would help. Stabling for long periods would cause the joints to become stiff and sore. Regular, light exercise could be gentle hacking on good surfaces and possibly light schooling but no tight turns or circles, long lining but not lunging. Try to avoid very muddy ground, hard ground, slippery surfaces, schools with a deep surface. These would all cause extra strain on the affected joints.
Your mare may be more stiff and uncomfortable in cold, damp weather. These conditions DO cause arthritic joints to ache. In my case, this then causes muscle spasms which in turn, makes the joints more painful. It's a vicious circle but again, gentle exercise eases the joint pain and muscle spasms.
Finally, I have secondary degeneration of the facet joints in my L4 and L5 lumbar vertebrae and both sacroiliac joints. I am permanently on prescribed painkillers, for the rest of my life (I'm 44). While I am able to manage this by knowing my limitations and working around them, a horse can't. It's up to us as horse owners to understand their needs and handle them accordingly

 

[Sarah Sum1]

She is so beautiful! and sounds like a complete star! I have no advice, but wanted to say how pretty she is

 

[ImogenBurrows]

Personally, if you can just keep her as a companion that is what I would do. Pedigree wise she is not commercial enough as a broodie, especially when you see foals out of graded competition mares selling for pittances and so for her own sake I would not breed from her. In addition with the arthritis i would imagine the strain of breeding may actually end up making this worse for her and what with not being able to get the foal out for 11 months, might cause her more harm than good in the long run.

I agree with this and also would say the small joint hock arthritis has shown a reasonable level of being hereditary, so there definitely is risk there too. Sorry

 

[pinkcatkin]

I am so sympathetic to your predicament as I was in the same situation with my wonderful mare. I got her after 30 years of having no horse and she taught me so much, gave me confidence and we did everything. She could turn her hoof to anything, dressage, long distance, cross country, and she was really successful in the show ring too.

After two injuries in her off fore the didn't come right even after 2 years and so I did put her in foal, a huge decision and taken after much soul searching. I was lucky in that I didn't feel that her problems were likely to be passed on and being a purebred ID I knew that by breeding pure I would be benefitting the breed. She produced a wonderful foal nearly 3 years ago now who I have kept and who will be my next riding horse, and her mother will now stay with me as an expensive and adored field ornament. She has now fully recovered from her injuries but has very slight arthritis, noticeable only on hard uneven ground at trot.

I am so sorry for you as I know how heartbreaking it is not to be able to continue a very valued ridden partnership.