Some half-pass musings - dressage people?

[Gamebird]

I've been trying to knock our half-pass into a test-worthy state tonight and had Supergroom watching, helping (she's much more dressagey than me) and providing the beers .

We both have the same dressage trainer, though have both been to several other people over the years and would both teach half-pass by moving the horse onto the diagonal, pointing its head to the marker you're aiming at (eg. F if you start at H) then asking for shoulder-in along the diagonal. If you get a few good steps straighten up and either circle away or finish the diagonal line straight so that you don't keep riding it until it falls apart.

Both of us find canter easier than trot. I'm quite happy to approach it from the travers direction rather than shoulder-in but I think that as long as both movements are established it doesn't really manage which angle () you approach from.

We were also discussing an article I'd seen by Spencer Wilton who said that HP is ALL about the inside leg. Now I find this very difficult as for me it's about the outside leg so obviously I'm going wrong somewhere. I suspect he would say that I'm using too much inside rein and not enough inside leg. I did however prove my point by demonstrating a pretty much perfect walk HP holding my inside leg about a foot off my horse's side ie. not using it at all. I would, though, find it impossible to create such a good SI without my inside leg.

All a bit random really but can anyone help with my theoretical understanding and help me a bit more with the importance of creating bend/impulsion with the inside leg?

 

[Mickyjoe]

You definitely shouldn't have too much feel in your inside hand otherwise you just get a false bend and are just leg yielding with a lot of neck bend. It's like your shoulder in. You should have the feel in your outside hand while your inside one just lightly asks for bend. I agree inside leg is very important. I prefer to start half pass by asking for shoulder in on the long side or the centre line and then just use the outside leg to lightly ask the horse to move over.

 

[Booboos]

My understanding, but correct me if I am wrong, is that the shoulders must always be leading bit if the horse is not around the inside leg this won't be possible. The h-p should be up-and-over rather than fall-out-of-the-shoulder-and-over. Once the leading shoulder is really up, i.e. the horse truly accepts the bend, bringing the quarters over is really easy.

H-p is generally easier in canter than trot as you have the leading leg lifting that shoulder a bit.

Spencer Wilton taught me a nice exercise in preparation for the h-p that sharpens the horse to the role of the legs: come out of the corner (let's say on the left rein) and leg yield left to the 1/4 line, then stay on the 1/4 line in shoulder in, and finish by h-p to the right back to the track (obviously you can only do it in walk and trot!). When you start it's really important you control that left shoulder, so that you come out of the corner, straighter up, control the shoulder and then leg yield. The shoulder in then lifts the right shoulder and you should have the bend ready for the h-p right.

One final thought, I have always been taught to give the inside hand in shoulder in and h-p to check the bend is true, until that can be done the horse is not really accepting the bend.

However, I can't ride a good h-p to save my life so may be talking rubbish!

 

[star]

i have always taught half pass after making sure travers is firmly installed. I also make sure they are used to leg yielding from centre line to track and vice versa, also down the long sides, everywhere really so they dont expect to always do that movement in one place. Sometimes I do the travers on the diagonal thing, sometimes I just ask from the corner aiming towards the 3/4 line as a beginning. Never ridden it from shoulder-in on the diagonal although have done similar exercise to what Booboos describes with the leg yield off the track and then half pass back to the track.

When I've ridden established horses it's all about inside leg to outside hand. Use the outside leg just behind the girth but really only as a support, most of the sideways movement comes from taking the outside hand over towards the withers and bending around the inside leg. I would come round the short side onto the long side, establish inside bend, place the outside leg back and then ask across with the outside rein. It's more difficult to get all this exactly right when teaching a youngster though!

 

[wizoz]

Not been on here for blimmin ages but saw this and wanted to comment

Don't know if you know but am now riding in BD as I ride my trainers youngsters for him as he is over qualified to ride them and he wants them competing from Prelim upwards, some don't do this, like Carl H as he will only bring them out when they are much more established.

Anyway, we are in the throws of teaching Monty his half pass and basically the 2 movements that need to be established before even beginning to ask for half pass is shoulder in and quarters in, so your theories are both correct. We also change the bend in both SI and QI so the horse stays supple and doesn't lock.

Then when you have your QI established, you are quite right in using the diagonal line, aiming towards the marker and using the outside leg to push the horse across, using a change of bend really helps to keep the horse soft too.

Hope this helps

 

[Santa_Claus]

I'm an outside leg girl for half pass I was taught it is essentially travers on the diagonal. which means outside leg and seat bone pushing the horse across. If you are in shoulder in then your inside leg and seat bone are pushing so to ride shoulder in across the diagonal to create half pass you can't use 'conventional' SI aids as they would be moving you in the incorrect direction if that makes sense.

Same for pirouettes some people like to teach them out of shoulder in because they already have the correct bend but they have to shift their weight aids as they go to commence the pirouette. Hence I was told to start from travers as even though effectively starting needing a few extra degrees you have your weight aids already in the correct place for the pirouette.

I can see the obvious important need of the inside leg in the HP to maintain the bend and prevent the horse falling through the shoulder into an easier 'straighter' angle but the outside leg and seatbone is controlling the direction of travel.

 

[Gamebird]

Spencer Wilton taught me a nice exercise in preparation for the h-p that sharpens the horse to the role of the legs: come out of the corner (let's say on the left rein) and leg yield left to the 1/4 line, then stay on the 1/4 line in shoulder in, and finish by h-p to the right back to the track (obviously you can only do it in walk and trot!). When you start it's really important you control that left shoulder, so that you come out of the corner, straighter up, control the shoulder and then leg yield. The shoulder in then lifts the right shoulder and you should have the bend ready for the h-p right.

Thanks for this - I've been using this exercise for a week or so now and it's producing real results. Unfortunately I've also really highlighted a need for mirrors to a) check that my SI on the 1/4 line is truly on 3 tracks (I tend to let the quarters swing out and end up on 4 tracks) and b) that in the HP I'm neither leading with the shoulders nor the quarters and that I'm staying vaguely straight in the saddle. This could end up expensive!

 

[JLav]

For me the inside leg is without doubt more important than the outside leg in the halfpass and the travers.

The inside leg keeps the horse upright and in proper balance...it also creates and maintains the impulsion. The outside leg merely displaces the quarters to the side whilst the forehand travels along the line you are riding along (ie long side in the Travers or diagonal in Half pass). The outside leg does not 'push' the horse sideways as that just tends to make the horse fall sideways rather than stay upright round he inside leg with the correct bend.

 

[TableDancer]

See I've always taught HP by starting in SI up centre line, then putting more outside leg on to ask them to move across still in SI position. You can just do a few steps to start with, then go back to SI, or just ride out of it on a circle, and maybe go medium.

Islay, when teaching Tilly (and Noffy) HP for the first time, used the same exercise as already described used by Spencer.

I think inside leg and outside leg are both important, inside leg initially in setting up the bend in the first place, then outside leg to ask them to move across - so everybody is right

 

[mtj]

For me the inside leg is without doubt more important than the outside leg in the halfpass and the travers.

The inside leg keeps the horse upright and in proper balance...it also creates and maintains the impulsion. The outside leg merely displaces the quarters to the side whilst the forehand travels along the line you are riding along (ie long side in the Travers or diagonal in Half pass). The outside leg does not 'push' the horse sideways as that just tends to make the horse fall sideways rather than stay upright round he inside leg with the correct bend.

This is how I am trained. Inside leg provides activity and the outside to position the direction. I have to remind myself to use the inside leg, as the outside feels more natural.

 

[TableDancer]

See I've always taught HP by starting in SI up centre line, then putting more outside leg on to ask them to move across still in SI position. You can just do a few steps to start with, then go back to SI, or just ride out of it on a circle, and maybe go medium.

Islay, when teaching Tilly (and Noffy) HP for the first time, used the same exercise as already described used by Spencer.

I think inside leg and outside leg are both important, inside leg initially in setting up the bend in the first place, then outside leg to ask them to move across - so everybody is right

Just to add (too late to edit ) I am referring to teaching a horse not a rider, teaching riders may be very different but I've never had to teach dressage to that level...

 

[Gamebird]

This rider is relatively competent at that sort of thing but it does lie towards the top of my dressage repertoire and having had a lot of baby horses half-pass doesn't always feature heavily! I was despairing a fortnight ago but the improvement in that time is enormous. And luckily the better this horse gets at it the more I am able to use the aids correctly ie. more inside leg so maybe I've answered my own question?

Jane Bartle-Wilson/Chris Bartle teach it (riders more than horses I suspect) from SI on the centre-line TD so you're in good company.

 

[Learntobounce]

When i first learn't to ride Half Pass I was always told to turn my head and shoulders to look at the quarters behind my inside leg. This instills the importance of using the inside leg to keep the impulsion, and it adjusts your weight in the right way, this makes sure you keep your inside leg on and the outside leg back to ask for the sideways movement, The outside rein moving into the neck and the inside rein soft, allowing the shoulder to lead, I have schooled numerous youngsters this way when bringing them on and the clear message from the body of the rider really helps, i have also used this but not to the same degree when teaching the youngsters quarters in. Once the sideways movement is established adjusting to sitting square on the horse is easy as the horse understands what your legs are asking for.

 

[Polotash]

I start from SH in on CL too, I feel reassured! I do use more outside leg than inside though - I think - will have to pay more attention when i school this evening!

 

[paddy]

Trainer taught baby HP to us as a suppling exercise. Up the centre line, leg yield left, keep everything the same but change the human legs around so that o/s leg is behind the girth and asking for sideways and change the human head to look in the new direction of travel. Started in walk, then in canter. Have now progressed to SI on the track to HP in walk. Note schooling whip stays in inside hand as that inside leg asks for forwards.

Because we were / are aiming for suppling HP rather than competition HP, trainer's very happy to see quarters leading, as Mac's shoulders are easy to move, but the real aim was to activiate his hind leg and take weight behind.