Some honest opinions/advice please

[Jill's Gym Karma]

It's just so hard, I have never had a horse PTS

As soon as you sign up to horse ownership, you need to be mentally prepared for the possibility of euthanasia one day. A calm, painless, dignified end is the greatest gift we can give to the animals whose lives we control (and let's face it, not what most humans get).

I think the suggestion of a summer turned out to grass and a decision in Autumn is a good one

 

[SEL]

EF - let us know what the vet says today. I'm lucky in that my vet is very honest about the horse's quality of life so I can have a good chat with her (even if I am in tears for it).

You know I too have ongoing problems, but in some ways my position will be a lot more black and white as my mare cannot retire to pasture due to her problems with sugar / starch. I'd be creating more pain for her. I have made the decision that this summer I will throw everything at her to see whether we can go back to the lovely youngster I had 2 years ago. If not, then I know there is nothing more I can do but I can sleep better knowing I tried. I am one of those people who needs to know that I tried.

I think you have already poured everything into Toby. If the vet says field rest will help then you have options, but if they can't give you that guarantee then sleep easy knowing you tried everything. PTS is horrific for us, but peace for the horse xx

 

[moodymare1987]

We have to do the right thing by our horses and ourselves. It is a nice idea having them retired in a field but if it will not suit them or us. I would not do it. Some are not as lucky to have own land to keep costs to a minimum.

 

[emfen1305]

Thanks all, some very excellent points here, all of which the rational side of me agrees.

On the one hand I can seehow it is not selfish, i know he is very stoic as are most horses so he is undoubtedly in constant pain of some sort so PTS is not that dire. I don't really worry too much about what people would say, I know people will probably pass comments but they don't have to deal with it day in day out.

On the other hand the the completely emotional side of me just tears up every time I think about it. It just feels so final, at least if i turned away I could get him back if i wanted to.

Turning away would be lovely but not feasible long term and i even think just turning away for a year or 6 months is just prolonging the inevitable, i think if i tried to bring him back into work after this time to get him as a hack would just make him break down again and I'm not sure I am comfortable with turning him away just to then PTS in 6 months anyway, causing him unnecessary upset and settling into a new place. I know I am just going around in circles with this so must be a bit pointless to read but it does help reading everyone's comments and thoughts so thank you. I am still waiting for the vet to call.

 

[Flyermc]

I just wanted to add

I lost my pony in October last year. I'd had him for 17.5 years (since i was 16) and dont really remember much of my life without him (he even came to my wedding!) I didnt have much choice in PTS as my vet said there was nothing more that could be done for him and he was very clearly suffering.

What im trying to say is that, PTS of a much loved member of your family, is never easy, no matter what the horses age/illness. It was quite honestly the worst day of my life, but i did it for him.

I wish everyday that he was still here, but you have to remember that horses 'age' alot faster than people.

 

[Michen]

Even reading this makes me tear up- I know so badly how you feel and I’m sure most of us on this forum do. It really is the most vile position, I’ve lost two horses and one it was a decision I could make and the other had an open catastrophic fracture so there was absolutely no decision to be made. But both still haunt me in different ways. Having a horse put down is traumatic either way.

I think when the time is right you will know, continue thinking it over, watch your horse, do the sums on how much he will cost to keep if he lives another ten years in a field and be realistic.

Sending you lots of sympathy but I really don’t think you could make a wrong decision here because you are clearly an owner who adores her horse.

Thanks all, some very excellent points here, all of which the rational side of me agrees.

On the one hand I can seehow it is not selfish, i know he is very stoic as are most horses so he is undoubtedly in constant pain of some sort so PTS is not that dire. I don't really worry too much about what people would say, I know people will probably pass comments but they don't have to deal with it day in day out.

On the other hand the the completely emotional side of me just tears up every time I think about it. It just feels so final, at least if i turned away I could get him back if i wanted to.

Turning away would be lovely but not feasible long term and i even think just turning away for a year or 6 months is just prolonging the inevitable, i think if i tried to bring him back into work after this time to get him as a hack would just make him break down again and I'm not sure I am comfortable with turning him away just to then PTS in 6 months anyway, causing him unnecessary upset and settling into a new place. I know I am just going around in circles with this so must be a bit pointless to read but it does help reading everyone's comments and thoughts so thank you. I am still waiting for the vet to call.

 

[scats]

In your situation, if I couldn’t keep the horse as a retired pet or I felt the horse was uncomfortable, I would PTS.

I’ve recently been in a similar situation and I chose to have my boy PTS. He had been pretty much retired for a few years but had been officially retired and living out for 6 months. I hoped he would be happy to stay that way for some time to come but his conditions worsened back in November and he dropped a considerable amount of weight in a short time, despite intervention. I brought him Home to try to and manage the conditions and his weight but within 24 hours he was struggling being stabled again for a portion of time, of which I had no option on the yard. He was grumpy, cribbing and weaving. I decided to call it a day.

Big hugs OP x

 

[Goldenstar]

Death is definatly not a welfare issue .
I am a bit in the same place with Fatty I don’t think he will ever be able to be ridden again and the whole palaver of managing his many issues all of which are helped by different things will take more work than keeping a competition horse fit is really just becoming clear .
Give your self sometime to think it through the worse time is before you put them down it’s just horrible IME you feel easier after it’s done .

 

[emfen1305]

Thank you lovely HHOers, I feel much better despite the teary moments. I have firmly shoved retirement to one side as I just do not think it is doable in my circumstances unless I can find somewhere much cheaper, I know there is somewhere down the road that offers for £15 but it is more just turnout and I'd prefer someone to keep an eye on him. Another option is floating the idea of him as a companion to see if there is any interest just as something else to rule out but I know I am very unlikely to find someone.

So that really leaves me with either him coming sound enough to be a light hack or PTS. Him coming sound to hack still leaves me in a bit of a predicament as I want to do more than just light hacking as selfish as that is, I am only 28 and like to think I have a long time left of jumping and fun rides. Really all of this does back me into the PTS corner which I thought it would anyway so I just need to take some more time to think over it. Really I need the vet to come and see him and give a prognosis. As horrible as it sounds, it would be so much easier if he was dangerous or showing obvious uncomfortable signs such as losing weight or not eating etc but he's fat and happy in the field - sorry going round in circles again!!

Also I wish there was a way to individually like each posts a la Facebook but for interests in not making the thread 1000 pages long, I thought I would just do a reply all rather than to each individual! But I have read every single word of every comment and really appreciate the time taken to help me with this predicament. I am sorry for those of you who are going through/have been through something similar - horses bring so much joy but it is heartbreaking at the same time

 

[siennamiller]

I rehomed my mare as a companion as I did not think she would come sound, I thought I’d found a lovely home nannying foals, unfortunately I found out she’d been sold on after 6 months, and the people that bought her said she was riddled with lice and was really skinny. I was so upset, and I don’t know where they sold her to, so I have no idea what happened to her. I wish I had had her pts so I knew she was not in pain or suffering.

 

[DD265]

I'm sorry that you're in this position OP.

My situation was different in that I did retire my horse so when it came to saying goodbye he was older but I still tortured myself over the decision for the better part of 2 years - all through his retirement. I just wanted to reassure you that in my case, making the decision to definitely PTS was the hardest thing and it got easier after that.

 

[emfen1305]

It is definitely the having to make the choice part that is upsetting, I almost wish it were out of my hands. I had a good cry tonight on his neck whilst he ate his haylage oblivious to my state. The vet is due on Wednesday to have a look at him, I told her I was starting to run out of steam with it all and had started to think about my options but she said she wouldn't like to say anything without seeing him which is fair enough. Just feel so sad about it all!

 

[Theocat]

I am so sorry. I am in almost exactly the same position. Mine has improved, a bit, with being turned away - but is by no means sound, and I can't go on forever if she can't return to work. She could live another ten years - which works out at more than £30,000 at retirement livery. It also means I can't afford another, and frankly I get nothing from having her in a field, too far away to see often. So I know exactly how you feel.

Turning away for a short period, as callous as I know it sounds, might make it easier to make the decision if you don't see him every day.

You are not the only one who has almost wished for the decision to be taken out of your hands. But horses are not straightforward, the chances are that what they throw at you will be awkward and expensive and worrying, but not enough to make an immediate call.

It's the hardest decision. If I were advising myself, I'd PTS. But from my own experience, I can only send sympathy,

 

[emfen1305]

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who took the time to comment.

The vet came back last night and Toby is most definitely lame, not just off or weak which means he would need to go back for a full lameness workup. She doesn't have any idea what is wrong, could be hocks or something he's done from being silly in the field. I have a little bit of money left on the claim but not enough to cover that and certainly nothing spare if they diagnose something the insurance won't pay for. I have a pot of money that I can either use to try and get him sound or I can use to put towards a new one. The vet told me that she doesn't think he will come back into a suitable level of work due to so many issues and that she would fully support my decision to PTS if that is what I choose. She is coming back in 2 weeks to give me some more time to think about it but I think I am leaning towards PTS. I am heartbroken

 

[ycbm]

I am so sorry E, but for what is worth I agree with your vet. If I can be there to hold the rope, or dose you up with rioja, please give me a call.

 

[DabDab]

So sorry - you really have tried everything and are a wonderful owner.

If I was in your shoes I would be of the same mind as you

 

[Pinkvboots]

I'm so sorry but it sounds like you have done everything possible for him and at the end of the day as a horse owner that's all you can do don't make it any easier though I know xx

 

[SEL]

I am so, so sorry to hear this. You did everything you could and I wish it had worked out better for both of you. Lots of hugs today xxx

 

[Dave's Mam]

Big hug. Reflecting everyone else, you have done everything you can.

 

[MissGee]

So sorry to read this.

You've done everything you possibly can for Toby, now you have to the one last thing you can for him.

Be strong.

Big hugs!

 

[samleigh]

At this point, I PTS, It wears you down, honestly making the decision was harder than living with it, after I felt mainly relief !

 

[Beausmate]

So sorry to hear this. I have had two put down this year, one was a catastrophic field injury (and I don't think I'll ever get over it) and the other was an old horse with too many problems. He was on borrowed time and after a sudden weight loss (he had none to lose as it was) I made the decision before the really cold weather came in.

He had a nice couple of days in the sun, naked with his friends and died on a lovely spring day, with his mates nearby, the sun on his back, his ears pricked and a carrot in his mouth. The worse part? Booking the appointment. Afterwards I was sad, but not upset if you know what I mean? I think it was because I knew it was time to go, he wasn't getting any better, nor was he going to and I couldn't face him being all sad at the end like my little cob was.

I don't think the 'one last summer' is what horse would choose - it's hot, the ground is hard and dust gets in their eyes and up their noses, there are flies and it isn't particularly comfortable for them. I think the best time is spring, when the sun has some warmth in it and the best, nicest grass is coming through and before the flies come out in force.

Big hug to you and anyone else facing a hard decision.

 

[Cecile]

So sorry to hear this. I have had two put down this year, one was a catastrophic field injury (and I don't think I'll ever get over it) and the other was an old horse with too many problems. He was on borrowed time and after a sudden weight loss (he had none to lose as it was) I made the decision before the really cold weather came in.

He had a nice couple of days in the sun, naked with his friends and died on a lovely spring day, with his mates nearby, the sun on his back, his ears pricked and a carrot in his mouth. The worse part? Booking the appointment. Afterwards I was sad, but not upset if you know what I mean? I think it was because I knew it was time to go, he wasn't getting any better, nor was he going to and I couldn't face him being all sad at the end like my little cob was.

I don't think the 'one last summer' is what horse would choose - it's hot, the ground is hard and dust gets in their eyes and up their noses, there are flies and it isn't particularly comfortable for them. I think the best time is spring, when the sun has some warmth in it and the best, nicest grass is coming through and before the flies come out in force.

Big hug to you and anyone else facing a hard decision.

This is such a lovely kind, sensible, honest and caring post ^^

 

[emfen1305]

Thank you for your lovely comments, I really appreciate everyone's kind words and advice. I'm not sure when it will happen yet, I still need some time to get my head around the idea, my friends at the yard are encouraging me to get another as soon as I can as it will give me something to focus on but in the meantime I am just enjoying his company and letting him have extra carrots and treats whenever he wants, last night i let him stick his head in the bag of carrots and pick which ever ones he wanted because sod it, why not!

 

[Chuffy99]

Oh how I agree with Beausmate re giving them one last summer, so much better after a few nice spring days before the flies.
So sorry to hear this emfen1305, think your boys got a lovely owner who only has his welfare at heart

 

[ycbm]

So sorry to hear this. I have had two put down this year, one was a catastrophic field injury (and I don't think I'll ever get over it) and the other was an old horse with too many problems. He was on borrowed time and after a sudden weight loss (he had none to lose as it was) I made the decision before the really cold weather came in.

He had a nice couple of days in the sun, naked with his friends and died on a lovely spring day, with his mates nearby, the sun on his back, his ears pricked and a carrot in his mouth. The worse part? Booking the appointment. Afterwards I was sad, but not upset if you know what I mean? I think it was because I knew it was time to go, he wasn't getting any better, nor was he going to and I couldn't face him being all sad at the end like my little cob was.

I don't think the 'one last summer' is what horse would choose - it's hot, the ground is hard and dust gets in their eyes and up their noses, there are flies and it isn't particularly comfortable for them. I think the best time is spring, when the sun has some warmth in it and the best, nicest grass is coming through and before the flies come out in force.

Big hug to you and anyone else facing a hard decision.

Sorry about your horses, Beausmate, but this is an excellent post.

 

[be positive]

Thank you for your lovely comments, I really appreciate everyone's kind words and advice. I'm not sure when it will happen yet, I still need some time to get my head around the idea, my friends at the yard are encouraging me to get another as soon as I can as it will give me something to focus on but in the meantime I am just enjoying his company and letting him have extra carrots and treats whenever he wants, last night i let him stick his head in the bag of carrots and pick which ever ones he wanted because sod it, why not!

You are making the right decision for both of you, the hardest part is making the call, if you have a good friend who will do that following your instructions that may help, the last time I had to call the vets for one I was in bits and could hardly speak, once that was done I focused on making his last few days as good as possible, for him as a laminitic, albeit not at that time, it meant going out onto grass for a few hours each day something he had not had for years he was delighted and enjoyed that time, much the same as you giving ad lib carrots it makes you feel better because they are obviously enjoying themselves.

I will say don't rush into buying another, take your time to get the right one it will not replace him anyway, nothing will, focus on the search.

 

[Quigleyandme]

As it happens I was looking for a retired, turned away, companion for my new horse. I am on Dartmoor. My land is gently sloping and exposed. I have 8 acres in three paddocks an it is peaty and free draining. I bring in on winter nights only unless there is a weather event. My horse is not dominant or buzzy (he is rising five) and there would only be the two of them most if the time. My son and daughter in law to be are vets. They are not local but do flu/tet and teeth and things for me to keep the costs down. At the moment I have a sweet little mare on loan to keep Quigley company but I am fairly sure her owner did not mean for it to be a forever arrangement. I have just been avoiding asking the question. I would cover routine expenditure like trims. I don't worm, I poo pick and worm count. I could look after your horse and we could see what happens.

 

[emfen1305]

Thanks all - it is just finding the right time, I think I have mostly come to terms with it, I have done a lot of reading and discussed with my close friends who are all in agreement, my friend has offered to hold him for me if I can't do it which has made me feel better. When I am around him I am OK, I am only sad at night and first thing in the morning, I suspect that's because it is still hanging over me and I haven't actually made the call yet.

Another question, I am still in touch with his old owners, they like seeing photos of him on my Facebook and came to see him before his surgery (they were buying something off me so they didn't just come to see him). I want to tell them I plan to PTS so they can come and visit if they would like to but I am worried about what they will think or if they offer to take him back (i don't think this will be the case..) do you think this would be OK?

 

[Equi]

Thank you for your lovely comments, I really appreciate everyone's kind words and advice. I'm not sure when it will happen yet, I still need some time to get my head around the idea, my friends at the yard are encouraging me to get another as soon as I can as it will give me something to focus on but in the meantime I am just enjoying his company and letting him have extra carrots and treats whenever he wants, last night i let him stick his head in the bag of carrots and pick which ever ones he wanted because sod it, why not!

ah that last sentence got me a lump in my throat. You're being so brave by not just sticking your head in the sand and doping him up. As said, the worst part is the booking and thinking about it happening. Thats what i found with my old staffie who died at xmas..she was going down hill fast and in all honesty could have gone sooner but she was still jumping up for food and wanting love..but in hindsight she was not happy. The thought of her going was too much for me and i was waiting for that "sign" and when i got it that was that and she was PTS that day...despite the whole family second guessing it because she jumped up as normal and ate a full xmas dinner then tried to attack our other dog out of jealousy...just like she always did. She was so normal..but it was still her time - the vet said so when they saw her so my dad said. I booked the appointment (just about as i could barely get the words out) but i was not able to go to it...it was just too much. My dad was with her though and honestly i think she liked him better than me anyway so it was no worry for her! Afterwards despite being sad about it, i actually felt a weight lifted. I did not have to worry about her welfare anymore, i did not have to worry about "that day" any more, i knew she was no longer suffering. I wish i had been braver sooner if im honest.