Some poor horses

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weebarney

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I pass some neglected horses on the way to work, we have had snow up here recently and these horses haven't been fed any hay for at least 2 days. When they do get hay it's in the form of a round bale placed on the opposite side of a barbed wire fence as them, for water they also have to reach through a barb wire fence. There are 3 on about a 1 acre plot so no grass at all. I've rang the BHS about them a few months ago and was told they are keeping an eye but can't do much as its a dealers field and the horses are moved about too frequent for them to do anything. I've rang again today as these horses are standing in exactly the same spot when I went to work as when I came home, by the water trough. The lady at BHS said they and other agencies are doing all they can to get something done for them, but when I mentioned about their immediate needs ie should I take them some hay down she said it could jeaperdise sp? The case against the owners if I do that. I feel so sorry for these poor animals being forced to starve before they can be helped.
 
I don't know not skin and bone just generally poor, hard to tell with fuzzy fur on top. They never run or play, that I have seen any way. It could be worse up close though, I only ever see them while driving past.
 
Unfortunately the horses do need to be in quite a state before welfare agencies can remove them, so as hard as it might be it is best not to feed them as it can prolong the length of time it takes to get them out of the situation and it can be hard determining the level of neglect if they have food from outside sources.
 
Ring them again and again.

Could you move the water into the field, let them drink and then remove the bucket? if you left it in the field then the RSPCA/WHW will be less willing to take them.
 
LaurenBay said:
Ring them again and again.

Could you move the water into the field, let them drink and then remove the bucket? if you left it in the field then the RSPCA/WHW will be less willing to take them.
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I think they can reach the water if there is actually any water in it, the field usually has a puddle too. It's more the lack of food that worries me at the minute. I thought we were supposed to have legislation that allowed intervention before an animal suffers
 
LaurenBay said:
Ring them again and again.

Could you move the water into the field, let them drink and then remove the bucket? if you left it in the field then the RSPCA/WHW will be less willing to take them.
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Agree with Laurenbay, pester power will hopefully have some effect? also maybe friends could also phone and voice their concern? Obviously there is only so many powers agencies have, but surely if it's a dealer that would give authorities more powers?
 
weebarney said:
I don't know not skin and bone just generally poor, hard to tell with fuzzy fur on top.
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Then the owner is possibly stripping off the round bale once a day and feeding from it rather than giving them adlib hay.

They never run or play, that I have seen any way.
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One of my owners has kept his horse with me for 7 years. He comes to visit his horse once a year. Every year when he turns up the horse is standing in the exact same place at the very top of the hill. Food for thought :)
 
Spring Feather said:
Then the owner is possibly stripping off the round bale once a day and feeding from it rather than giving them adlib hay.



One of my owners has kept his horse with me for 7 years. He comes to visit his horse once a year. Every year when he turns up the horse is standing in the exact same place at the very top of the hill. Food for thought :)
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They are serious welfare cases, no normal horse owners force their animals to reach through barbed wire to eat and drink. The woman at the BHS reassured me they and trading standards etc are doing all they can to get this sorted out but in the mean time what happens with them? I didn't even have to tell her where they are I just said the county and the field/ feeding conditions and she knew.
 
weebarney said:
They are serious welfare cases, no normal horse owners force their animals to reach through barbed wire to eat and drink. The woman at the BHS reassured me they and trading standards etc are doing all they can to get this sorted out but in the mean time what happens with them? I didn't even have to tell her where they are I just said the county and the field/ feeding conditions and she knew.
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From your description they certainly don't sound like 'serious' welfare cases. Plus, if they were, then something would be done immediately. It sounds more like low level neglect which needs addressing by advice and monitoring.
 
Moomin1 said:
From your description they certainly don't sound like 'serious' welfare cases. Plus, if they were, then something would be done immediately. It sounds more like low level neglect which needs addressing by advice and monitoring.
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They said legally they cannot do anything straight away for these horses. I would say not feeding a horse for at least 2 days is serious especially as this has go e on for a long time and god knows how many other horses this person has. I don't know what makes you think this isn't serious? Maybe we have different standards. The last time I spoke to BHS they said they would monitor, this time they say themselves, police, trading standards and other agencies are now involved so I would say the situation has got worse.
 
weebarney said:
They said legally they cannot do anything straight away for these horses. I would say not feeding a horse for at least 2 days is serious especially as this has go e on for a long time and god knows how many other horses this person has. I don't know what makes you think this isn't serious? Maybe we have different standards. The last time I spoke to BHS they said they would monitor, this time they say themselves, police, trading standards and other agencies are now involved so I would say the situation has got worse.
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The law does not deal in "standards " in deals in evidence .
While some neglected horses belong to people who just dont know what's required many, sadly belong to people who know exactly what they can get away with that's why we have these sad situations where it appears people are doing nothing while watching horses get worse .
The law does not allow you to remove people property because it's having a deeply unpleasant time.
It does not allow you to remove peoples property because it belongs to an unpleasant unscrupulous individual .
Knowing some thing is not right is not the same as being able in law to do anything about it, it's sad but it's how it is.
 
If you've just driven past are you sure that the bale isn't outside to have sections thrown over (common in a certain type of field around here) and the water is not part of a different field and there is another source elsewhere in the field?
 
weebarney said:
They said legally they cannot do anything straight away for these horses. I would say not feeding a horse for at least 2 days is serious especially as this has go e on for a long time and god knows how many other horses this person has. I don't know what makes you think this isn't serious? Maybe we have different standards. The last time I spoke to BHS they said they would monitor, this time they say themselves, police, trading standards and other agencies are now involved so I would say the situation has got worse.
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If you drove past a certain area round ours the horses would look like they are never fed. There is a bale just out of reach the other side of a barbed fence and no water troughs in site.... but they are fed and watered.
The first glance shows a big group of unmoving horses with no food or water... but it's there. All you're seeing is a snapshot.

The group I pass is the local travellers, a horrible guy who owns them... but they are not starved as wouldn't earn him anything doing that. They'd certainly look it at a glance though.
But when they do have a mad moment, boy do they go. I spent a day sat out watching them (only as I was very tempted to pop some money down on a stunning foal :o) and it was eye opening what was actually happening, to the 'poor' horses I passed daily.
 
Goldenstar said:
The law does not deal in "standards " in deals in evidence .
While some neglected horses belong to people who just dont know what's required many, sadly belong to people who know exactly what they can get away with that's why we have these sad situations where it appears people are doing nothing while watching horses get worse .
The law does not allow you to remove people property because it's having a deeply unpleasant time.
It does not allow you to remove peoples property because it belongs to an unpleasant unscrupulous individual .
Knowing some thing is not right is not the same as being able in law to do anything about it, it's sad but it's how it is.
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I was of the understanding that a recent law change meant there can be intervention before an animal suffers. Ie if no food or water is provided to an animal it will suffer so they can be helped in a much shorter time frame.
 
WHW , had to ring today to report 2, couldn't leave it any longer now I have established there situation won't improve. All I can do is ring and let them look and see. If they think the situation is fine then I will back off and re examine what I consider adequate for horse care.
 
weebarney said:
I was of the understanding that a recent law change meant there can be intervention before an animal suffers. Ie if no food or water is provided to an animal it will suffer so they can be helped in a much shorter time frame.
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You obviously have never witnessed a severe neglect case OP. No, I would not class a group of horses, living out, not being provided hay (to your knowledge) as a 'serious welfare case'. I would class it as a low level issue which needs dealing with by strong advice.

If BHS say it is being dealt with, leave them to it.
 
Moomin1 said:
You obviously have never witnessed a severe neglect case OP. No, I would not class a group of horses, living out, not being provided hay (to your knowledge) as a 'serious welfare case'. I would class it as a low level issue which needs dealing with by strong advice.

If BHS say it is being dealt with, leave them to it.
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Thanks love, you are quite obviously the messiah in all things welfare related but as I have seen what's going on and you haven't I think I'll deal with it how I think is right. You seem to have a lot of 'advice' but I'd say this case is past advice if several agencies are now involved with them. Oh and animals not given food is not serious? Yes we certainly do have different standards of animal care!
 
PandorasJar said:
If you drove past a certain area round ours the horses would look like they are never fed. There is a bale just out of reach the other side of a barbed fence and no water troughs in site.... but they are fed and watered.
The first glance shows a big group of unmoving horses with no food or water... but it's there. All you're seeing is a snapshot.

The group I pass is the local travellers, a horrible guy who owns them... but they are not starved as wouldn't earn him anything doing that. They'd certainly look it at a glance though.
But when they do have a mad moment, boy do they go. I spent a day sat out watching them (only as I was very tempted to pop some money down on a stunning foal :o) and it was eye opening what was actually happening, to the 'poor' horses I passed daily.
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Maybe this dealer keeps them the way they are to get pity sales as I have never seen one in good condition, just thin and wormy and lame ones with foals.
 
PandorasJar said:
If you've just driven past are you sure that the bale isn't outside to have sections thrown over (common in a certain type of field around here) and the water is not part of a different field and there is another source elsewhere in the field?
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The only water is either when there is a puddle in the field or through the fence. I can't say without sitting there all day if sections of hay are brought for them but there is none on site( the field is on its own sided by a main road). And I pass going to and from work and also whenever I go to the shops and they have had nothing.
 
i will update this thread when i find out more, probably will get it from the local newspaper as several people have already wrote to it complaing of the state of these horses and where they are kept. What makes it more serious is the fact they regulary break out in search of food and are only yards from the A1!
 
Hope it gets sorted soon Weebarney, unfortunately these things do take time and the agencies involved have to be absolutely certain that neglect is taking place and that the owner is not rectifying the situation after advice/warnings.

There is also the problem that most of the rescue centres are full to bursting and the horses are unlikely to be an isolated case, there are hundreds of horses kept in less than ideal ways all over the country. Goodness knows where it will all end as it just seems to be an ever increasing problem.

I've experienced the frustration of dealing with severely neglected horses, so understand how you feel.
 
So, you don't know what body condition they are in, you don't know if they are brought hay, you don't know if there is water in the trough? Why not get out and check? Just to clarify the law, The Animal Welfare Act states that a police officer, or Local Authority Inspector (trading standards) can take an animal into possession on veterinary advice if a vet feels an animal is suffering, or likely to suffer if circumstances do not change. So, yes, in actual fact trading standards could remove them right now if that was the case. So if you ate right in saying bhs, police and ts are involved, then it's one of three possibilities:
Your allegations are unfounded

A vet feels they are not suffering or likely

Or, if they are a 'serious' welfare case as you say, the authorities
aren't doing their job properly.

OP I appreciate you are worried about the horses, but your information is very sketchy and based on your assumptions rather than knowledge or fact.

The first thing I would do is get out of the car and actually feel their body condition and observe up close.
 
I think part of the issue is that the authorities may well want to remove them from a welfare pov, but they have to have somewhere to place them and funds to keep them. Removing them is often a last resort.

However not getting hay for two days may be pretty awful when there is no grazing, but the ones I was involved with had had no hay or other feed at all for months, and were walking skeletons, so they may well have to prioritise animals that are in a worse state.
 
Yes exactly. Which is why I would not describe the situ as serious. Having no hay for two days is shoddy and bad management, but it really won't be high on their priority list I'm afraid
 
If you were living out in the current weather we are having, without food and water for two days, you maybe would be feeling "down" moonim. After continually seeing cruelty cases all winter on this forum. I say well done to the original poster. Glad you are trying WHW and also possibly you could try Redwings. They at least, will monitor situation,and reassure you if they feel it is not as bad as you think. Again well done, for keeping an eye. There is an old old saying "better safe than sorry"
 
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