Some urgent advice needed pease regarding Passports

Blizzard

Blizzard

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ok as some of you know my new horse is coming home tomorrow, just spoke to the yard manager who is responsible for selling the horse.

The owner offered to pay for the transfer of ownership for me, ok fine, BUT Ive just found out he has already sent the passport off to be changed over to me, so I wont have it when I bring horse home tomorrow!
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Ok so now what do I do!

He has already said I can borrow another horses passport at the yard who is similar to my new horse, to travel with, then post it back, but what really concerns me is that the passport is surely my proof of ownership?

YO has said he will give me a written receipt etc detailing everything, inc passport situation, but is this enough?!

Ive arranged transport and everything now, I just dont like the thought of handing over that money with no passport!

arghh one thing after another!
 
You know the people this horse is coming from don't you??? I think it's unfortunate, but maybe done with the best of intentions.

I would definately want a receipt either way anyway - so just make sure you get one of those. Did they send the passport of recorded delivery?
 
If it was me, and my concern lay with proof of ownership (which is what you said in the post) then I would carry on. A written receipt is enough proof in my mind. When I had my horse it took 18 months to transfer ownership to me as he had gone through an auction and the seller was a dealer whose name was never on the passport. I had a receipt from the auction house and that was enough for me. His passport identified him so there were no problems with travel and identity.
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I would very very much NOT hand over any money till you have the passport - cos as long as he has it, he is still the legal owner.

The written reciept may not be enough but I'm just going off what I would do.

If you trust him enough, could you not just give him part of the money and the balance on reciept of passport.

I also thought it was YOUR job to change ownership not his.
 
don't even think of using another horse's passport! Didn't they keep a copy..can he tell you which passport issuer he user so they can fax or email a copy of the original to you or him..seems odd..don't know why he didn't just hand it over..

No matter how nice the horse I would be askng more questions now!

also- your transport company may refuse to travel the horse without it
 
archies passport is foreign - i havent a clue what any of it means/says and i have a clue who its in the name of or even what his name is on there!!
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ETS - sorry thats not very helpful is it!!
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Did you actually see the passport for the horse? I do wonder whether he actually hasn't got one at all!

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Thats a good point, seems a little suspicious....
 
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If you trust him enough, could you not just give him part of the money and the balance on reciept of passport.

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trust NOONE when it comes to buying/selling horses - honestly i learnt the hard way. people who seem the most honest can turn out to be the most decieptful.
 
It is a legal requirement when moving a horse to new premises that the passport travels with the horse. If you are using a registered & licensed transporter, they will (and should) refuse to transport the horse without the passport. If the transporter is stopped for whatever reasons (Trading Standards have been doing spot checks), they will be breaking the law if the horse's passport does not accompany it. As for saying that you can "borrow another horse's passport" - this seems very dodgy, I certainly wouldn't lend any of my horses' passports to anyone. Have you actually seen your new horse's passport? Why should the owner of the horse pay for the transfer of ownership - you should be the one that completes your part of the transfer form and you should send it off to the appropriate Passport Issuing Office with the fee which is probably only about £10.00 Sorry, but it all seems a bit fishy to me.
 
OOO, TGM very valid point!! SOme people are just plain sneaky aren't they. On continent, we have to have a special green card to travel horses - can't get it without passport number etc so passports much more important here. Also, we cannot get onto some show grounds without showing this card and passport and cannot transport horse without all his docs.
 
Your receipt is your proof of ownership, not his passport. You can't legally move him though without possession of the passport.

Don't take a 'similar' passport though....that's what's known as fraud
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I think this is probably unfortunate rather than sinister, but it does pose some questions for you !

Can you perhaps ring the passport issuer to confirm they have received the passport and that a name change is in progress ? Still doesn't solve the problem of moving him without it though...
 
Dont get bitten like I did. Last summer I bought an arab yearling and they said they would do all the paper work.

It turned out the dam and sire needed further registration and the previous owner was'nt prepared to pay.

I now have a pure bred with no passport and a seller that continues to pass me off everytime I ring.

If you are concenered, find out where they sent the passport and give the office a ring to ensure they have it etc.

I would wait if you cant get any answers. The transporter can be fooled by you providing another passport, however should there be an accident etc you would get them into a lot of trouble.

A transporter I used in the past very carefully checked the passport as explained it was his career and life that would be affected it the paper work was not correct.

I personally would not feel comfortable fooling an innocent transporter with a fake passport just in case something happend. These days there have been a lot of lorry checks for overloading.
 
I agree but the woman I get my horses from in Germany now trusts me and will put horse on transport with only half money so I think it depends, but yeah if you ahve never dealt with them before - don't trust them as far as you could throw them !!!
 
Absolutely NO WAy should you either hand over money or move the horse without the passport. Passports dont prove ownership so there is no need for that to be a concern. However you need it to travel the horse to a new home.

Find out which PIO issued it and if possible get the passport number (the seller would surely have taken a note of it). Then phone the PIO for advise.

And to use another horses passport is plain asking for trouble. You are both knowingly being fraudulent.

It is illegal to sell a horse without the passport.
 
Last time we bought a NF pony in UK, the owner was a bit nutty and didn't really wanna sell, so when she did and we handed over money she wouldn't give us the passport!!! In the end, we had to ring breed society and cos we were in touch with the breeder, they issued us with a new one.

The horse I bought 3 months ago came from Germany and there was one page from the passport which was proof of ownership, without it, I was not legal owner. Maybe different with different breeds.
 
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Find out which PIO issued it and if possible get the passport number (the seller would surely have taken a note of it). Then phone the PIO for advise.


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Thank God for Spaniel - alwyas so sensible. I'd never have thought of that!
 
Sorry to hijack post but would that be the case for buying at auctions and sales etc?? What about horses that have been abandoned and their owners cant be traced - how do you go about getting a passport for them?
 
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Sorry to hijack post but would that be the case for buying at auctions and sales etc?? What about horses that have been abandoned and their owners cant be traced - how do you go about getting a passport for them?

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Start a new post on this Jo - co's this one will stir up a few feelings I'm sure.
 
Buying at auctions and sales is a very dodgy area. Some sales are also PIO so an unpassported, stolen or otherwise dodgy horse can turn up at the sale with no passport, have one issued on the day by the sale, and then go off to a new home with, potentially a whole new identity.

This is one area that really needs to be tightened up as its an absolute godsend for those that deal in stolen animals as it is at the moment.

As for honest horses then yes, you still cannot sell without the passport.
 
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Find out which PIO issued it and if possible get the passport number (the seller would surely have taken a note of it). Then phone the PIO for advise.


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Thank God for Spaniel - alwyas so sensible. I'd never have thought of that!

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I think I said that a bit further up?
 
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I would ahve thought that if you buy a horse at auction or sale, the owner would have had to hand in a passport before horse accpeted for sale??

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Except some markets, Southall included, are PIOs - which just proves what a shambles the whole passport scheme is!
 
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Find out which PIO issued it and if possible get the passport number (the seller would surely have taken a note of it). Then phone the PIO for advise.


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Thank God for Spaniel - alwyas so sensible. I'd never have thought of that!

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I think I said that a bit further up?

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AND The Watcher........
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Completely in agreement with Spaniel.

If it was me, I would be saying they should keep the horse until the passport is back but you're probably impatient to get it home! Another way would be for them to transport it to you themselves (no innocent transporter gets into trouble then) you pay only half until the passport is in your own grubby little hand!
Sorry, I know it's no laughing matter but it does sound highly suspect and convenient to me; they are trusting you have fallen in love with the horse and want it whatever the legal implications are, but please, don't travel it without ITS passport and don't part with any money until you get it; better a wait than a fine or no passport at all.
 
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