Some vintage dressage videos (Christoffer Bartle & Wily Trout)

H

horsedances

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2008
Messages
127
www.topdressage.tv
's Hertogenbosch 1986 WorldCup

Thanks to Patrick (The startinglist) :idea: :
Tineke Bartels & Duko (NL) , Diana Ranking & New Ladykiller (USA), Eva Maria Pracht & Lyogen (Canada)
Unknown, Annemarie Sanders & Amon (NL), Domique D'Esmee & Freshwind (FR), Aloise Lahn & Monteaura (Yugoslavia),
Christoffer Bartle & Wily Trout (UK), Anne Katherine Linsenhoff & Vallauris (Germ), Christine Stuckleberger & Rubelist (Swiss),
Anne Grete Jenssen & Marzog (DK).


http://www.topdressage.tv/POPUP-WorldCup-DenBosch-1986-Finals.html
 
I was so in love with Wily Trout as a child.

Off topic but does anyone remember a horse series (I think) that featured Wily Trout and also the dressage rider Reimer Klimke and showed a beautiful piece of dressage to classical music.
 
looking at the first combination and thinking gosh wasn't the level appaling back then!!!! piaffe is so dead, can't believe people actually made it to international GP like that!
 
You see, I look at it from a different angle, yes the moves don't have impressiveness in the paces however, they doesn't mean they are incorrect. Its actually refreshing to see fairly ordinary horses that are well trained perform at this level.
It actually would have been a time where some one who had a correctly trained but not flashy horse could compete at the top with a hope of being placed.
These days only horses with huge paces get in there with the top marks and how good is for the joints of theses horses that are bred to move with this huge movement?
If judges were satisfied back then with the movement of the horses in this video why aren't they now?
 
charlie76 said:
You see, I look at it from a different angle, yes the moves don't have impressiveness in the paces however, they doesn't mean they are incorrect. Its actually refreshing to see fairly ordinary horses that are well trained perform at this level.
It actually would have been a time where some one who had a correctly trained but not flashy horse could compete at the top with a hope of being placed.
These days only horses with huge paces get in there with the top marks and how good is for the joints of theses horses that are bred to move with this huge movement?
If judges were satisfied back then with the movement of the horses in this video why aren't they now?
Click to expand...

This exactly.
 
I think if a horse doesn't have expressiveness in their paces that actually means they are not entirely correct because expressiveness comes with looseness and suppleness.
 
Not necessarily IMO. I horse can have the biggest movement in the world but not be correct in the moves, keep balanced and stay in rythym.
A lot of horses Have simply had the movement bred into them and can blinker some ( not all) judges and people into not seeing the bigger picture.
 
charlie76 said:
You see, I look at it from a different angle, yes the moves don't have impressiveness in the paces however, they doesn't mean they are incorrect. Its actually refreshing to see fairly ordinary horses that are well trained perform at this level.
It actually would have been a time where some one who had a correctly trained but not flashy horse could compete at the top with a hope of being placed.
These days only horses with huge paces get in there with the top marks and how good is for the joints of theses horses that are bred to move with this huge movement?
If judges were satisfied back then with the movement of the horses in this video why aren't they now?
Click to expand...

^^^^^ This
 
I couldn't really tell a good piaffe from a bad one, but think dressage has not advanced in a good way since the 80's. These horses look happy in their work, they are harmonious and light. Too many horses today are tense, way too much power at the expense of harmony.

I actually think you can afford to make fewer mistakes with horses of less ability, it is possible to get away with terrible training faults with a horse with an extravagant action and built naturally uphill.
With a 'normal' horse, you hoik it's head in and you lose the quality of gaits immediately, with a modern dressage (circus) horse it will still throw it's front legs around whatever you are doing with it's head & will naturally overtrack by a mile regardless of whether it is actually trained correctly.
 
I think some of the comments about modern dressage made above are a little unfair.

Dressage has become a lot more competitive partly because a lot more people do it. You have to differentiate somewhere when you are judging and partly that is why horses which have more natural movement do better. Equally, the better you ride, the better the horse will go, so if you take it as a given that at the top levels the horse will be a naturally extravagant mover then the rider still has to get the best out of the horse. Its also true that the top level horses do not move in a much of muchness way, some have a lot more knee and hock action, some are much lighter on their feet, some just have a lot of power and adjustability.

There are also quite a lot of mistakes in these vids ! A lot of half pass with the quarters leading, missed out changes, breaking into canter. So I would say the standard today is higher in this sense too.

These videos do show that the most important attribute a horse can have is the right brain though. A lot of these horses would not be competitive at top level now because of the movement, but they have all had the mental capacity to train to the highest level.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top