Someone save me from saddle fitting hell!

[orsceno1]

Hi all,
Having a bit of a saddle fitting nightmare! Mainly with my 6yo mare but also my older gelding....I really don't know who to trust anymore on fitting advice so would really appreciate any knowledge on different saddle fits for different shaped horses and if anyone can recommend a fitter....here's the issue anyway!

Mare - had a new stubben jump saddle fitted as a 3yo and been ridden in only that to date (she's only been in real work for last year though). Never appeared to have any problems until last few weeks. Mare always been a bit of a madam but bad behaviour escalated. So had Physio, dental and saddle check, saddle deemed fine by fitter, however professional who rides her for me sometimes said he wondered if it was sitting a bit low on her, she's very short coupled and broad across the back (not a big horse, 15.3 TBx and v fit, just a sausage shaped body as someone once said!). Had a bit of a disaster jump lesson today (usually a jumping machine) and instructor commented that stubbens quite narrow in gullet/ panels generally? So for a broad flattish but short back what make of saddle do people suggest?!! Have lost a bit of confidence in fitter as she is very pro stubben....I don't want to spend loads on a saddle as not even sure if I will keep her and don't have lots of spare cash! Have had several fitters recommended over the years and been told different things by all of them so now don't know who to listen to anymore - help!!

Gelding - been ridden in albion k2 jump and albion slk dressage for last 7 yrs. been regularly checked and adjusted as needed. Both professionally fitted. Horse has always been prone to back soreness - he's long in back and big moving so assumed down to his conformation, has regular Physio, however fitter who did my mares stubben looked at him in both albions and immediately said the points were sitting too far back on him and so causing the long term back issues, despite saddles technically ticking all the boxes for fitting?!! She recommended a stubben for him due to banana shaped back putting less pressure on loins??

I would just love someone to help me understand this fitting malarkey and to know which of the saddle brands fit into which category and suit particular shaped horses?

Any comments or experience very appreciated!! And sorry for epic post lol!

 

[moana]

If you save me from my saddle fitting problems, I will try to help you. I am certainly no saddle fitter though.

 

[Frumpoon]

Where are you and who is your saddle fitter? Pics of horses also might help

 

[be positive]

I would question the saddler who is biased towards Stubbens as being motivated to get you buying another one, they are not universally popular as they seem to only suit a certain type.
I have a horse that had similar issues with his Albion as yours with the points going into the back of his shoulders and restricting his movement, he is now in an Amerigo jump and much more comfortable, he has changed shape totally since having 2 different saddles, really muscled up behind the withers where he had slight dips previously.

My physio is often the best judge as to the saddles suitability, if I was requiring physio regularly for the same problems I would expect her to look at the saddle and give an opinion on whether it is the cause of the problems, my saddler and physio will attend together if there is an issue and work towards sorting it.

I think if I were you I would find a saddle fitter who is not selling new saddles, so trying to push you to get one of a certain brand, and try and get the physio to help regarding what would suit the horses, not many require a banana shaped tree that is sometimes reflecting how the muscles have developed rather than how the back should actually be.

 

[blitznbobs]

Get another fitter out to have a look - sounds a little suspect to me...

 

[orsceno1]

To be fair to the fitter she wasn't pushy in terms of trying to sell me another saddle (my stubben I have is an ex demo and one of 3 I tried from her which were second hand when she first fitted my mare). I'm just not convinced it is right for he now- when she was 3 she was a completely different horse to what she is now! My Physio is great and my geldings issues have been on and off but he is the opposite to my mare in terms of he was eventing and now in very light work so lost slot of topline and thus changed shape the other way! He's very high withered and more A shaped so a different fit to my mare - so can a stubben or anything else really be the ideal saddle for them Both?! I think not! Like I said I have had several well know fitters over the years work with my gelding and none ever commented the saddles might be causing back issues - hence my lack of confidence in the saddle fitting industry! I don't really want to name names on here but will do so by PM if anyone can suggest someone unbiased and un pushy who may be able to help! Will try and find some decent pics.....

I have Physio coming out this week anyway so she is going to take a look too.....

 

[orsceno1]

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This is mare- only side on pic I have to give an idea!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

No wisdom to offer you OP. Only to say that am feeling your pain. Been there, done it, got the mug, DVD, T-shirt & blimmin matching bra & knickers set the lot.

Hope you get sorted.

Avoid here: www.thesaddleexchange.co.uk - this is the only "wisdom" I can offer I'm afraid.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Certain types of Ideal saddles are worth considering for a horse with a 'broad, flattish, short back'. They are commonly available second hand.

Tbf, most horses would need a change or two of saddle from ages 3 to 6.

 

[be positive]

That saddle looks to be lifting at the back and barely big enough for the rider which could well be putting too much pressure on the front but the photo is not really much help.
I agree with the suggestion of an Ideal I have used several different ones on different horses they are a fairly uncomplicated saddle with a flattish tree that suit most types and are readily available at sensible prices.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Avoid here: www.thesaddleexchange.co.uk - this is the only "wisdom" I can offer I'm afraid.

Oh why for gods sake (appointment booked for tomorrow having endured several saddle nightmares so far thought they sounded really good, but don't they all!!!!).

 

[orsceno1]

Thanks for replies- stubbens do lift a bit at the at back due to their shape - that's not me, he is much taller than me hence looking rather big for the saddle so that not the issue! I will look at the ideal ones though thank you. What about saddles for high withered a shaped horses then lol? Nightmare!

 

[Spottyappy]

Give UK and do it yourself.
After several sorry tales, and an SMS one having to not just repay our visit, but pay to put the horse their fitting broke put right, I am very disillusioned and having learnt loads over the years ( being of the era, too, when one saddle really did fit all,adjusted just by various pads and cloths) I have reverted to trusting my own judgement and listening to what the horse tells me.

 

[Sukistokes2]

Oh god thought it was only me caught up in saddle hell!
I am on my third fitter and he condemned my brand new saddle of 4 weeks yesterday. I am on the verge of giving up. I am certainly considering selling my young horse.
I wish you luck finding a good fitter.
Someone has suggested a fairfax saddle.........anyone used one?

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Oh why for gods sake (appointment booked for tomorrow having endured several saddle nightmares so far thought they sounded really good, but don't they all!!!!).

I have posted on here before concerning my experience with these people. Firstly can I say please do NOT confuse them with any other company with any similar sounding name....... an easy mistake, and one which is very unfortunate.

Can I confirm, are the people you have coming tomorrow called Dean and Gini Woodward???

As I don't want to highjack this thread, suffice to say that yes they "sound good" if they're trying to sell you one of their saddles brand spanking new, BUT if you encounter a problem with your saddle (and I did), they will treat you with total disdain and blame it on either you and "the way you ride" and/or your horse "it's the way they move".

OK then, briefly (I will try to be!!) - as I think others on here should know - I bought a saddle from them a few years ago, initially I was delighted with the saddle, so much so that I put my testimony on their website and also as a YO recommended them to my livery, who then bought three more of their saddles for her horses. This saddle that I bought cost what I considered was a lot of money which was my hard-earned cash. However within about a year the suede seat had started to bag and stretch unevenly, also, and more disturbingly, there was an indent on one side where the rider's seat bone sat.

I mentioned this to Mr & Ms Woodward in one of their saddle fittings.......... (am cutting a lot of history here) - eventually my saddle was taken away, and I was told by an e-mail from Gini Woodward that "there would be no charge" for any remedial work.

Then I ran into Dean Woodward at a local equestrian event - they had had my saddle in their possession for 7 weeks by then - and asked what was happening about it. Dean Woodward then told me that I would have to pay £100 plus VAT for my saddle to be repaired!!! I queried this, and his manner became very unpleasant - so much so that later in the day, after giving the matter some thought, I returned to their stall and asked for my name to be removed from the website.

To be fair to Dean Woodward, he did purchase my saddle back for £350 - after making various excuses about why he couldn't pay me any more for it. I have seen secondhand saddles of his on Preloved for £500!!! .......... and it was a long long uphill struggle to get anywhere and became very unpleasant. What FFS would it have cost to have done the decent thing and repaired the blessed thing?? As I YO I put over £4000-worth of business their way, if you consider not only brand new saddles but the many fittings and flockings afterwards.

So; my advice to you, if having a saddle fitting tomorrow (god help you), would be to stall............. DO NOT agree to purchase anything, just say you want to "think about it".

IF you do buy one of their saddles: do not believe any of their bull***** that they'll give you good customer service. They won't!! They'll fix a day/time with you, and rush into the yard and give you ten-minutes worth of their precious time, then ask for £65 thank you very much, telling you all the time about their fantastic "celebrity" clients who use them in all parts of the world!!! (they DON'T tell you about all of their celebrity clients that use them the once, get Pee'd off with their non-existent customer service and then don't use them anymore).

Their "saddle fittings" consist of no more than seeing the saddle on the horse, walking around, a few paces of trot, stuff up the saddle - and then not even evenly flocked at that - and unashamedly ask you for their grossly inflated fee!!! Plus mess you around if you have booked a time and a date with them, and taken off time from your schedule to do so.

I believe that my saddle from them had an inherent manufacturing defect: and that they could have put it right, and should have done so, but did not. Like I say, as a YO I had put a helluva lot of business their way, but even apart from that, I think the whole thing could have been handled very differently. It is obvious that all they are concerned about is selling brand new saddles and NOT providing customer service.

So sorry "FfionWinnie" to disappoint you: but personally I would make some excuse (any you like) and cancel their visit tomorrow.

I will PM you.

 

[Frumpoon]

I have a high and broad withered horse, I think I've been through every make of saddle in the market, what sort of discipline are you looking for and what's your budget?

 

[FfionWinnie]

I am going to lie down in a darkened room now.

 

[Nicnac]

Someone has suggested a fairfax saddle.........anyone used one?

No - but think you need a second mortgage to buy one!

Sorry OP - am also in saddle hell at the moment - not because of fitter but because of horse changing shape!! (frequently)

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I am going to lie down in a darkened room now.

I've just PM'd you - with a suggestion of another HHO member who could give you additional clarification re the issues I mentioned .............

Am SO sorry. But better that you know now, coz I wish I'd known before spending my money, plus as a YO recommending them so that other people spent their money, that seriously did embarrass me. In fairness I have to say that to my knowledge the other person who bought their saddles IS happy with the saddles, but NOT I think with their customer service!

Apologies to OP for hi-jacking this thread! I really am so sorry. Didn't intend it!

Sorry meant to add that Strada saddles have been recommended to me. Had a look at their website: very nice, but too pricey for happy hackers like me.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

To be fair to the fitter she wasn't pushy in terms of trying to sell me another saddle (my stubben I have is an ex demo and one of 3 I tried from her which were second hand when she first fitted my mare). I'm just not convinced it is right for he now- when she was 3 she was a completely different horse to what she is now! My Physio is great and my geldings issues have been on and off but he is the opposite to my mare in terms of he was eventing and now in very light work so lost slot of topline and thus changed shape the other way! He's very high withered and more A shaped so a different fit to my mare - so can a stubben or anything else really be the ideal saddle for them Both?! I think not! .

If they've both changed shape in opposite ways to what they originally were, have you tried their current saddles on each other? Alternatively,is it possible that they just need a wider (your mare) or narrower (your gelding) version of what they've got now? Second hand saddles bought privately are very often quite cheap at the moment.

 

[TrasaM]

Sorry OP..can't help because I am in the same situation with two horses that I ride .. Master saddler and all that jazz..then left us with two horses whose problems weren't resolved and wondering if she'd got two out of 5 so wrong, could she then have been right about the others.?
Previous fitter represented a well know brand and also flogged saddles to horses' owner that weren't right ..in fact one did a lot of damage.
Hope you find a solution to your saddle woes.

 

[Holly Hocks]

For a high withered horse I would suggest the newer models of Bates as they have the internal inserts as well as the adjustable gullet, so can be altered almost any way to fit the horse. I use one on my TB and like it.

 

[wench]

Op... Where do you live? Someone in here may be able to give you a recommendation?

 

[Palindrome]

Avoid here: www.thesaddleexchange.co.uk - this is the only "wisdom" I can offer I'm afraid.

Totally agree, have had a bad experience too.

 

[orsceno1]

Thanks all - I'm in staffordshire. I event (or at least will again soon I hope!) so really looking for a jump saddles for both. Unfortunately not as simple as needing a wider/narrower model- fitting in that sense is ok I think, it's more a case of the tree not suiting the shape of the back I reckon. Sadly because my mare is so much more short coupled than my gelding his lovely albion k2 is just huge on her back sorry to hear about others being in same boat....I think the poster saying you need to listen to your own instincts is right, I just need to learn a bit more about what to look for and then try a few off friends if I can I think!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Yes agree that its knowing what to look for........ I recently booked an appointment with a Society of Master saddlers "saddle fitter" (i.e. NOT a saddler, a SMS "saddle fitter") and it really opened my eyes up mega wide.

She had a depth of experience and I learnt such a lot from her visit; unfortunately she doesn't do "saddle fitting" very much, more of an occasional basis, kind of thing, and she didn't have a large stock of saddles. The ones that she did have with her were lovely, but didn't fit my boy at all - and she was honest and said so, which was good. But I think one way forward in the future might be to have a flick on e-bay or preloved and get some second hand saddles which are a good-ish fit, i.e. I know what Wintec gullet plate mine has and so know roughly what size to look for........ and then get the SMS saddle fitter back here to "fit" properly.

Yes OK this may horrify some on here, but its difficult being on a limited budget and also having to deal with a grass-kept who changes shape on an almost daily basis. As a happy hacker I simply don't feel justified in spending a huge amount on a custom-made saddle - and no point as would have to have a saddler virtually live on the premises.

I've just bought a treeless saddle (the Tree Free Exmoor) for mine; whilst appreciating treeless isn't everyone's choice, I have to say that I DID get excellent advice from the fitter they sent out. These saddles were developed by Master Saddlers - not everyone's cup of tea, treeless, but at the mo it's what I'm riding in for the vast majority of the time TBH. So just throw this out.........

But am feeling your pain OP. This is WHY I've gone treeless basically, tho' do have treed saddles for my two.

 

[Palindrome]

Thorowgood is good to keep in mind too. I think it's lovely quality and very reasonnably priced.

 

[mandwhy]

Have you looked into balance saddles? I watched my friend's fitting and it was a truly educational experience. It is a bit more expensive but very extensive and a lot is explained. They're different to normal treed saddles (lots of different options), I use a heather moffett flexee but my horse is a wide thing with small wither which I feel the flexee is best suited to, if I felt I needed a treed saddle again I would go to balance based on what I have seen. Look on the lavinia Mitchell website also, there is some really good info on there.

I feel like I have learnt so much about my individual horse's needs that I know her infinitely better than any saddle fitter ever will, and my experience has put me off traditional fitters.

Some horses with big shoulder movement are just destined to have endless trouble with traditional treed saddles, mine is one of them!

 

[elijahasgal]

Second here for balance saddles
My Old lad is an ID x TB that I was actually having to change saddles every 6 months on. He then sprained a ligament, and well in rest the change in his back..... Nothing I had had came close. Looked at all sorts of options, tried a balance fitting, and well the matrix for him (no points) and he was a different horse, he grew and carried himself within 2 mins of it being on, touched a button and he extended, which he had never been able to do!!!
I also never have had to get him another saddle, as the slight adjustments I do with the gel pads. He is a happy pony! (all 16.3hh of him)

That said, for your gelding, I would be tempted to use a flair air pad under until he was back in work and to his normal shape, but again, wonder if the points are getting his shoulders.

 

[Jaffa]

I have had a very bad experience with saddle exchange as well :-[